User Panel
User Panel
View Full Site
User Panel
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 10:21:26 AM EDT
Just curious if it's worth the time
 What benefits would i see getting a Phantom?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 10:23:57 AM EDT
[#1]
Slightly reduced flash and cool factor.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 10:26:23 AM EDT
[#2]
I would not call the reduction in flash slight. It is a major reduction in flash, especially in shorter barrels.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 10:42:50 AM EDT
[#3]
very major in reduction. shingaling I don't believe you have ever witnessed the flash from them, there's a night and day change also the 5c2 does a major job of keeping your muzzle down |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 10:49:22 AM EDT
[#4]
For a 20" barrel my impression is that the A2 does a pretty decent job, especially with ammo other than XM193 and others that might be particularly bright. I wouldn't bother with a Phantom on a 20" myself.
For 16" barrels or shorter, IF you think you might possibly use it for home defense, or zombie invasions, etc - then a phantom can start to make a significant difference. For a short barrel, like my 10.25" barrel - the advantage of the phantom over an A2 is phenomenal. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 10:58:20 AM EDT
[#5]
Forgot to specify that it's a 16" M4. And I like the flash  They don't work as comp/brakes do they?
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 11:07:52 AM EDT
[#6]
the 5c series has the close bottom which imo slightly reduce muzzle rise along with no dust kick up and suppressed flash, i would swap it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 11:16:02 AM EDT
[#7]
I would NOT bother on a 16" gun. The difference in flash on that barrel length is only noticeable (to me at least) when using shitty ammo like wolf. I would consider it in 14.5, and it would be mandatory on a 11.5 or shorter, for me.
No compensating effect. If you ever shoot prone, get the closed bottom model. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 11:16:44 AM EDT
[#8]
Also, if you get a Phantom that has "teeth" you can use your rifle as a cattle prong.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 11:20:05 AM EDT
[#9]
Neither would I. I wouldn't want the extra length. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 11:25:57 AM EDT
[#10]
These are extremely effective FS for night time/dusk shooting. Check my advert. in the used equip EE and your decision should be much easier. 1/4" extra length? Bah!  I added 6" of extra length (Gem-tech).223 doesn't need 'compensating'.  I still have a 5C1 on my 9mm that doesn't need FS. I just wanted it for a contact-type party favor.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 11:27:35 AM EDT
[#11]
whatever, it's a big improvment on my 20" |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 11:29:02 AM EDT
[#12]
the phantom 5c2 is a comp/flash hider and the diff in flash on a 20" is noticeable |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 11:29:02 AM EDT
[#13]
Yeah I saw that. Interested me ETA - It's really stupid question time again. What's so harmful about the flash that you want as little as possible? Is it really THAT bright? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 11:38:52 AM EDT
[#14]
A compensating effect? I never noticed a difference. Very few people say they feel a difference. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 11:51:24 AM EDT
[#15]
yes it makes a diff.....I think I like the vortex better though.....but I went back to my A2 because on entry I keep knocking my mussel against the doors...I could have gotten used to it but I just didn’t feel like it....but I would go with a vortex over the phantom I’ve used both in low/no light and the vortex just works better
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 12:14:53 PM EDT
[#16]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 12:27:04 PM EDT
[#17]
Thanks for posting the link! I was looking for it, but was too stupid to find it.  Yeah - that really shows what a remarkable difference it can make on the short barrels like 11.5" and shorter. I guess the A1/A2 designs were never really intended for the short barrels. The actual photos of tests also seem to illustate two things quite clearly. 1. Ammo can make a huge difference, and XM193 really does generate a much larger flash than some other ammo. 2. The Phantom and Vortex seem to be equally good at flash supression for most barrel lengths (certainly at 14.5 and 16, with maybe a slight difference at 11.5). |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 12:27:43 PM EDT
[#18]
From my 14.5" bbl with an older 5-slot Phantom, I see a spark or 2 every few rounds (using Q3131A)
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 12:38:24 PM EDT
[#19]
I get fireballs from hell from my 14 1/2s with the Izzy. Especially with XM193 & Q3131. I would love to calm down the flash. My 16s and 20s with the A2s have no noticeable flash. What's up with the Izzy?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 4:58:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Pics of my YHM Phantom FH/comp with the sealed bottom and "aggressive" end, it replaced the A1 Birdcage FH that was originally on there.
   I like it, and will put another on my "M4" build in the future. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 5:15:03 PM EDT
[#21]
markm is right, anything longer than an A2 on a 16" M4 cut barrel just doesn't look right.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 5:49:43 PM EDT
[#22]
ETA - It's really stupid question time again. What's so harmful about the flash that you want as little as possible? Is it really THAT bright? Oh other than it ruining your night vision when you need it most........ look at those pics and just imagine. Mike |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 6:02:08 PM EDT
[#23]
No.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 6:05:45 PM EDT
[#24]
If you can see the flash....so can the bad guys...or what ever!hug.gif
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 8:00:18 PM EDT
[#25]
To answer your question. The Izzy sucks. From what I've seen, you might as well have no FS on the rifle. The Izzy's do not work AT ALL. Get a Phantom. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 8:39:46 PM EDT
[#26]
Since the Izzy is permanently attached I guess it would be gunsmith time if I wanted to change it. What were the people at BM thinking of ? 
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 8:42:02 PM EDT
[#27]
Nice pics. I have a Phantom with the closed slot on my 10" SBR, but I actually have the closed slot on top, since I don't really think it contributes to muzzle flip, and think it is more likely that it will "redicrect" any errant sparks sideways or down, as opposed to up inside my field of vision. I am either retarded, or a genius!   When I used to have an A2 on there, I could CLEARLY see a muzzle flash, even sometimes during daylight. The Phantom completely eliminated that. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 9:24:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Poll coming? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 9:32:22 PM EDT
[#29]
Well, since he's talking about the 16" barrels, these pics would probably be more on-topic from that same thread. All pics property of rsilvers.  As you can see, as the barrel gets longer, the signifigance of the FH diminishes as they all do a decent job. WIZZO |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2006 10:20:43 PM EDT
[#30]
Those last 2 pics look like they would hurt
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/22/2006 11:12:35 AM EDT
[#31]
The main purpose of my post was to post rsilvers thread link so they could look at the photos of different FS. You stated from the photos that you posted that "as they all do a decent job", It's clear that the Phantom and Vortex showed a very significant improvement in performance compared with the A2 FS. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/22/2006 12:52:42 PM EDT
[#32]
SNAP |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/22/2006 1:44:36 PM EDT
[#33]
Why in Heavens name would our military chiefs not invest the extra $2/per gun it took to outfit our Armed Forces with a better flash suppressor? If those pix are genuine (a high-speed super slow-mo video would be a better measure) the difference is dramatic - and conceivably life-saving.  |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/22/2006 2:24:52 PM EDT
[#34]
2 bucks times how many rifle, money vs the need. They don't feel the extra money is worth the need |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/23/2006 7:19:32 AM EDT
[#35]
He has extaoridnary feeling ability! Research has proven this! |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/23/2006 8:56:08 AM EDT
[#36]
whatever  it's a comp, it's designed for it and yes there is a difference and if you can't tell I don't give a fuck, but don't fuck with me about it
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/23/2006 10:21:25 AM EDT
[#37]
I'm pretty well convinced by now that the A2 flash suppressor has a solid bottom only to alleviate the dust signature during prone firing in the field. With it's open front and huge expansion chamber it's architecture is nothing like an efficient compensator, so if it does have some compensating effect it is minimal and probably not enough to feel. The term compensator was probably applied as a sales pitch.
We should ask Coldblue.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/23/2006 10:33:07 AM EDT
[#38]
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=274647 |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/23/2006 10:38:47 AM EDT
[#39]
You sure are an ASSHOLE! Must be nice going thru life with such a lovely attitude. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/23/2006 10:43:16 AM EDT
[#40]
I'm not sure why the A2 has no cuts on the bottom but, the lack of cuts on the bottom does absolutely nothing for dust signature reduction. Anyone who has shot in the dust/dirt of the desert can vouch for this. The dust kicks up from 4-6 feet in front of the muzzle depending on the soil conditions. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/23/2006 10:50:55 AM EDT
[#41]
Yes the dust still kicks up with an A2, and with the Phantom closed bottom. And it makes like a blast crater effect about 3 or 4 feet out where the dirt is pushed away. I love the desert, but the dust sucks for shooting.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/23/2006 10:59:20 AM EDT
[#42]
Corporal_Chaos, thanks for that post. Very interesting.....
MarkM, the A2 does not eliminate dust signature, and I did not mean to imply that. I have yet to shoot any of my A1 equipped barrels in a dust-prone environment, but I have kicked up some dust with a vortex equipped barrel. It blasted a plume of dust up under the bottom port, and consequently had a larger dust signature than the A2 equipped gun. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/23/2006 11:00:37 AM EDT
[#43]
Dig it!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/23/2006 11:12:51 AM EDT
[#44]
That really would be an interesting test to see the results of.
Is there a difference in "dust singnature" or "muzzle rise" between a regular A1 and a closed-port A2, and between a regular Phantom and a closed-port phantom. I have NEVER "felt" any difference in recoil or muzzle rise between versions of flash supressors with a closed port on the bottom, versus the all-round open one. Has anyone else actually tested that? Did coldblue ever reference actual testing results? |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/23/2006 2:36:18 PM EDT
[#45]
I bought an A1 FH at a gunshot for my M4ger awhile back and went straight from the show to our farm to install/shoot it (including prone). The first couple shots with the A1 blew shit up and right into my face whereas the A2 I had fired 5 minutes earlier did not. For the compensating aspect of it, the only way to actually feel it is to shoot one, take it off and put the other on, and shoot that one, or have 2 identical rifles with both FHs on them. The difference is negligible, but there is a difference. The A2 does have a little bit of a compensating effect, but it's nothing to write home about. WIZZO |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/24/2006 10:40:15 AM EDT
[#46]
lol i think that was some where in there with tracers working both ways |
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
