Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 3/14/2005 1:08:53 PM EST
So I get my gun zeroed in and go ahead and dial in my red dot and basically put the dot lolly popped on top of the front post.   But whenever I go to look thru it, it always takes a few seconds for my eyes and head to line up right so that the dot goes on top of the post.   If I move my head back or to the side, the dot moves up, down, side to side and its a pain in the arse.  Is this normal?  I thought the idea of a red dot, was fast acquisition.  But it takes me a few seconds, all the way up to 10 seconds sometimes to get the dot where I need it.  

Also, if I have this kindof problem with a red dot, then when I fold down my rear BUIS, then how do I really know that I will be accurate?  The dot seems to move around a lot and takes time to focus in on the front sight post.....  

Am I going crazy?  Any tips?  Boy am I glad I bought a cheap Tacpoint instead of blowing $400+ on an Aimpoint.  With results like this, I would be faster with Iron sights......
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 1:11:51 PM EST
There is no reason to put that dot on top of the front sight post, inside of the rear sight, or even in the middle of the window.

Just put the dot on the target and pull the trigger, the whole point to the EOTech and Aimpoint and all their knock-offs is so you don't have to have the dot in the middle, effectively taking your eye position out of the equasion and giving you only two points of aim (target and dot).
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 1:13:24 PM EST
The answer is really simple - you do not need to put the red dot on top of, beside, below, or in any particular relation to the front sight to use it!

In a red dot sight w/o magnification, there is generally no parallax error.  If you zero the sight correctly, where the dot is is where the bullet will hit, even if your head is off to the side, a little low, or whatever.  This is part of the magic of the sight.  You do not need to align two objects on the target - just put the properly zeroed dot on the target and send it to Allah/Jesus/Yaweh/<insert deity here>.  This is part of what makes them so fast to use.

Link Posted: 3/14/2005 1:14:36 PM EST

Quoted:
There is no reason to put that dot on top of the front sight post, inside of the rear sight, or even in the middle of the window.

Just put the dot on the target and pull the trigger, the whole point to EOTech and Aimpoint and all their knock-offs is so you don't have to have the dot in the middle, effectively taking your eye position out of the equasion and giving you only two points or aim (target and dot).



I know I am an idiot, but if the dot is zeroed on the front sight, then if I picked up the gun in a SHTF scenario, then you are saying regardless if the dot lines up on the post or not, I should just put the dot on the target and fire???  Wouldnt I miss?  If the dot is to the left of the front sight post, then how can I be sure I will hit the target??  This is hard for me to swallow....  ugh
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 1:16:05 PM EST

Quoted:

Quoted:
There is no reason to put that dot on top of the front sight post, inside of the rear sight, or even in the middle of the window.

Just put the dot on the target and pull the trigger, the whole point to EOTech and Aimpoint and all their knock-offs is so you don't have to have the dot in the middle, effectively taking your eye position out of the equasion and giving you only two points or aim (target and dot).



I know I am an idiot, but if the dot is zeroed on the front sight, then if I picked up the gun in a SHTF scenario, then you are saying regardless if the dot lines up on the post or not, I should just put the dot on the target and fire???  Wouldnt I miss?  If the dot is to the left of the front sight post, then how can I be sure I will hit the target??  This is hard for me to swallow....  ugh

 If it's too hard to swallow, just take it to the range and see.  
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 1:36:42 PM EST
If the optic isn't sighted in to the rifle it is mounted on, it shouldn't be relied upon at all.  In fact, if you plan on using this rifle is a SHTF scenario, the optic SHOULD NOT be attached to the rifle at all.

Go to the range and sight it in.  If you can't do that soon, unmount the Tacpoint.  It's pretty easy.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 2:04:33 PM EST
It's you.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 2:13:46 PM EST

You are kidding right?

An Aimpoint is about the fastest thing going.  Basically you should be shooting with both eyes open and ignoring your iron sights.  One of the good things about cowitnessing the dot with the irons is that you can double check your zero.  Other than that I never try to use the irons and Aimpoint simultaneously.  Keep your rear BUIS folded out of the way and start shooting.

If you really want to blow your mind, next time you go shooting leave the cover on the objective lens and take some shots.  It is a good way to learn how to take advantage of both eyes open shooting and how fast it can be.

Good Luck
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 2:14:05 PM EST

Quoted:
It's you.



+1


If it's bothering you that much, get a folding front sight to take that out of the equation.

I use a CQT as my only optic, and I don't even notice the front sight when I bring the weapon up.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 2:55:51 PM EST
The whole point of a red dot is so you don't have to line anything up. put the dot on target and shoot it. try it, you'll see.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 2:58:54 PM EST
yup..it's you. the red dot is a reflex sight. the dot once zero'd has no Paralax. (Sp?) it does not need to be centered in the sight. just place the dot on the tgt and press the trigger.  You should also be keeping both eyes open. if used correctly, a red dot sight is smokin fast...
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 3:47:55 PM EST
Does anyone find it ridiculous someone would go and buy that kind of optic and have NO IDEA of its advatages or how to use it?   Its like he bought it to be cool and had no idea WHY he bought it other than that...
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 3:50:03 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 4:06:27 PM EST

Quoted:
Wouldnt I miss?  If the dot is to the left of the front sight post, then how can I be sure I will hit the target??  

Are you trying to hit the front sight post or the target?  Keep both eyes open and focused on what want to hit, put the dot over what you want to hit and squeeze the trigger.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 5:15:53 PM EST

Quoted:
Does anyone find it ridiculous someone would go and buy that kind of optic and have NO IDEA of its advatages or how to use it?   Its like he bought it to be cool and had no idea WHY he bought it other than that...




+1


junk
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 5:24:20 PM EST

Quoted:
Does anyone find it ridiculous someone would go and buy that kind of optic and have NO IDEA of its advatages or how to use it?   Its like he bought it to be cool and had no idea WHY he bought it other than that...




+1


junk
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 5:25:02 PM EST
I hate to be ugly, but its just you.   Nothing is easier than aiming with a red dot.  Nothing.

The red dot has nothing at all to do with your iron sights.  You don't line up the red dot with the front or rear iron sight.  When the red dot is sighted in, that's all you use.   The sight picture is just the red dot on the target.  As long as you can see the red dot on the target, you're going to hit it - doesn't matter where your head/eyes are in relation to the sight.  If it the red dot is on the target, fire.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 5:54:19 PM EST

Quoted:
Does anyone find it ridiculous someone would go and buy that kind of optic and have NO IDEA of its advatages or how to use it?   Its like he bought it to be cool and had no idea WHY he bought it other than that...



No, but let's help him learn how to use it.

TXL
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:49:31 AM EST

Quoted:

Quoted:
Does anyone find it ridiculous someone would go and buy that kind of optic and have NO IDEA of its advatages or how to use it?   Its like he bought it to be cool and had no idea WHY he bought it other than that...



No, but let's help him learn how to use it.

TXL



Thanks man, I thought I knew what a red dot was used for, I guess its just an adjustment in my head I need to do.  Thank God that I didnt throw down BIG bucks for an Aimpoint.  I have heard that some people just dont care for red dots.  I may find myself one of these people.   My guess is that I dont have this thing dialed in and zeroed right.  Any help you guys can give me is great, I am totally at the mercy of you good fellas in here.   I may need to look into a front flip sight so that I can just focus on the target and putting the dot on it.  Its the co-witnessing that seems to screw my eyes up.  I cant focus on my irons, the dot and the target at the same time.  
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:01:07 AM EST
Yes people need to learn to have more "People" skills on this board.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:19:46 AM EST

Quoted:
Its the co-witnessing that seems to screw my eyes up.  I cant focus on my irons, the dot and the target at the same time.  



As others have said - there is no reason to cowitness the dot. NO PART OF THE IRON SIGHTS ARE USED WHEN YOU'RE AIMING WITH A RED DOT. End of story. You can use a red dot without any iron sights at all. It doesn't matter where the dot is in your field of view either. Centered, off-center, in the corner - makes no difference. Someone here shot some rounds with the reticle all over the window in the corners, and noticed that as long as the center dot was in the field of view, you were within a couple of inches of your target.

You sight in the reddot like any other riflescope. Start at 25 if it's newly mounted and zero it in, then move to 50. My Tacpoint is mounted on my AK74 using a siderail mount. It's a little hard to get used to at first, because most siderail mounts don't mount the scope centered on the bore and that puts the dot to the left of the front sight post. I only really notice when I'm sighting in though.

People care about red dots "cowitnessing" so they can simply flip up the BUIS in case the red dot fails.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 8:41:41 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 10:04:18 AM EST

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Does anyone find it ridiculous someone would go and buy that kind of optic and have NO IDEA of its advatages or how to use it?   Its like he bought it to be cool and had no idea WHY he bought it other than that...



No, but let's help him learn how to use it.

TXL



Thanks man, I thought I knew what a red dot was used for, I guess its just an adjustment in my head I need to do.  Thank God that I didnt throw down BIG bucks for an Aimpoint.  I have heard that some people just dont care for red dots.  I may find myself one of these people.   My guess is that I dont have this thing dialed in and zeroed right.  Any help you guys can give me is great, I am totally at the mercy of you good fellas in here.   I may need to look into a front flip sight so that I can just focus on the target and putting the dot on it.  Its the co-witnessing that seems to screw my eyes up.  I cant focus on my irons, the dot and the target at the same time.  


\]

No prob.  I think if you learn to use it, you'll like it.

The post above is correct.  IGNORE your iron sights.  Put the red dot on the bullseye at 25 yds and pull the trigger.  Adjust until bullet impacts the same place the red dot was pointing at.  Do it again at 50yds.  You're pretty much done, as a 50yd zero will keep you in the red zone out to about 200 yds.

After you are sure the bullet is hitting where the red dot is, it matters not wheather the dot is centered in the scope.  What the red dot is on, the bullet will perforate.

Good luck, give it a little time, and you'll see.  

BTW, I have my red dot mounted on a rail.  It mounts to my flat top.  I can pull it and put a scope on in a minute.  And switch back to a zeroed red dot in another minute.

Not a bad system.

TXL
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 10:08:36 AM EST
Its OK, you were voted most likely to go postal. We U-N-D-E-R-S-T-A-N-D. Now take your medicine and wash it down with an Ice Cold mug of Suds!
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 11:31:50 AM EST

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Does anyone find it ridiculous someone would go and buy that kind of optic and have NO IDEA of its advatages or how to use it?   Its like he bought it to be cool and had no idea WHY he bought it other than that...



No, but let's help him learn how to use it.

TXL



Thanks man, I thought I knew what a red dot was used for, I guess its just an adjustment in my head I need to do.  Thank God that I didnt throw down BIG bucks for an Aimpoint.  I have heard that some people just dont care for red dots.  I may find myself one of these people.   My guess is that I dont have this thing dialed in and zeroed right.  Any help you guys can give me is great, I am totally at the mercy of you good fellas in here.   I may need to look into a front flip sight so that I can just focus on the target and putting the dot on it.  Its the co-witnessing that seems to screw my eyes up.  I cant focus on my irons, the dot and the target at the same time.  


\]

No prob.  I think if you learn to use it, you'll like it.

The post above is correct.  IGNORE your iron sights.  Put the red dot on the bullseye at 25 yds and pull the trigger.  Adjust until bullet impacts the same place the red dot was pointing at.  Do it again at 50yds.  You're pretty much done, as a 50yd zero will keep you in the red zone out to about 200 yds.

After you are sure the bullet is hitting where the red dot is, it matters not wheather the dot is centered in the scope.  What the red dot is on, the bullet will perforate.

Good luck, give it a little time, and you'll see.  

BTW, I have my red dot mounted on a rail.  It mounts to my flat top.  I can pull it and put a scope on in a minute.  And switch back to a zeroed red dot in another minute.

Not a bad system.

TXL



Thats awesome man, thanks so much for helping me with this.  I have just one more question.  I am using a Tacpoint with the mount provided with the scope.  The scope supposedly sits too low, so I bought a 1/2 inch riser for it.  Did I even need to do that?  Or could I have used it the way it sat on my flattop and just moved the red dot where I needed it?
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 11:47:21 AM EST

Quoted:
Thats awesome man, thanks so much for helping me with this.  I have just one more question.  I am using a Tacpoint with the mount provided with the scope.  The scope supposedly sits too low, so I bought a 1/2 inch riser for it.  Did I even need to do that?  Or could I have used it the way it sat on my flattop and just moved the red dot where I needed it?



I assume this is for an AR with a flattop? If so, then the default mounting location will probably not be ideal. The dot will be down on the FSB, and that will obscure the target. It's *probably* easier to use with the 1/2" riser. The red dot I used to have (plain 40mm tube) did the same thing. I just deleted the pic with it mounted on the riser on the rifle.

There's no right or wrong here; it's simply a matter of making it work for your particular circumstance.

Edited to add:

This pic from FALARAK  shows how the dot is superimposed on the FSB in with the default mounting location:



Compare that to the sight picture when mounted on an A.R.M.S #68 cantilever mount in this pic by AR15-fanatic:



Here's a good example showing how iron sights can cowitness with your red dot using an EOTech:

Link Posted: 3/15/2005 12:04:23 PM EST
I LOVE those pics thru the sights, now if I could only reach that trigger!!!!!! Its a TEASE!
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 12:05:53 PM EST
K so I will just stick with the current config of this system then.  Not that its that great a system, but I just couldnt see spending $200+ bucks on a mount for a $88 dollar scope hehe

Next time I go to the range, I will follow the simple instructions of putting the dot on the bullseye and trying to track where my rounds hit and put the dot there.  Then I can call it a day.....
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 12:06:56 PM EST
I am glad I was born knowing everything... so I did not have to ask anyone questions around here!


Oh wait... I wasn't!


I have learned things during my path through life by asking.  I am glad that most of the people I asked... did not make me feel stupid because I did not know... and they did.

I wish I was as smart as those guys!!!
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 12:39:18 PM EST
Amen
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 4:59:08 PM EST
A great example of how red dot sights like the EOtech and aimpoint do not depend on where the dot is in the EOtech advertising photo here:

http://www.nightvisionweb.com/images/eotech_obstruction.jpg

In all 3 of these images, the rifle would shoot where the red dot is, despite the fact that it is in drastically different areas of the field of view of the scope (caused by looking in the scope at varying angles).
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:39:30 PM EST
Top Top