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10/30/2020 2:42:12 PM
Posted: 8/16/2004 9:51:06 AM EST
Just got back from shooting my new midlength, with Walmart-sourced Remington 55 grainers. They grouped about twice the size of last time I shot the gun with Federal American Eagle and Winchester generic ammo. Someone please tell me the Remington ammo is trash, or else my gun has been deteriorating right in its case over the last month!
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 10:13:05 AM EST
I consider Remmington UMC .223 to be 'plinking ammo' on par with Wolf for accuracy.  Not the best, but it works for plinking or training at ranges of 50y or less.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 11:28:20 AM EST
Yes....Remington (UMC) .223 ammo is JUNK!!! Our Department issues it right now and as a Firearms Instructor I see all kinds of bad ammo from them....mostly inverted or missing primers and deformed bullets. We are switching to Winchester.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 11:37:19 AM EST
just an FYI, the Wolf 62 grain is on par with Black Hill 65 grain in 2 of our 1:9 twist SS barrel(1 16" and 1 20")

The PMC is ok, for under 150 yards IMO.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 12:49:17 PM EST
This isn't UMC, this is a Remington box.

With Winchester or Federal generic ammo the gun was making one inch groups at 100. Today it was shooting 2+ inches (scoped). Also, the iron sights are now clear off the paper high! It was maybe three inches high at 100 before, now it's at least seven! Come to think of it, the scope was high too, though that didn't bother me as I was just shooting it for group and not for zero with that.

Very strange behavior. I HOPE that the gun just doesn't like this particular brand.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 5:12:15 PM EST
No it's not junk.  But your barrel / rifle might not like it.  In my experience, ar's are finicky about what they like, regardless of dollars spent.  As are most autoloaders of any sorts.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 6:12:55 PM EST
It's not my first choice in ammo.  I like the UMC for plinking and brass generation.

I wouldn't panic over this.  Go back to WIN ammo.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 6:25:19 AM EST
Save the brass anyhow.  The brass is the most reusable and expensive part of the cartridge.  I'm sure you could find someone who would be willing to take good once-fired Remington brass off your hands for a fair price!
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 7:21:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By Snake45:
Just got back from shooting my new midlength, with Walmart-sourced Remington 55 grainers. They grouped about twice the size of last time I shot the gun with Federal American Eagle and Winchester generic ammo. Someone please tell me the Remington ammo is trash, or else my gun has been deteriorating right in its case over the last month!

Dear Snake45,

 Perhaps your rifle was deteriorating in its' case, if you hadn't cleaned it.  Just kidding.
 As a more serious question, did you ensure your sights/scope were mounted securely?  Did you change your shooting position in a way that made you less stable?  Did you utilize a sling or rest the rifle on or against something that would have influenced the barrel enough to change the point of impact?  Did you have a bad day as a shooter?  I don't always shoot my best every time I visit the range.  We practice to improve and we share our experiences for the betterment of others.

 Could you provide a more complete description of the ammunition and the box it came in?  I saw an advertisement in Natchez Shooters Supplies July/August catalog for Remington 55gr FMJ, Item# F78RTL223R3.  The picture showed a green & white box.  Is it the same stuff you found in Walmart?

 I've used Remington 55gr PSP in a Bushmaster 20"HBAR 1-9 chrome-lined barrel with satisfactory results.  It came in a green & yellow box.

 I've used UMC 55gr FMJ in the past and had occasional failure-to-extract/double-feed problems.  It was in a yellow box.
 I've had F.T.E./D.F. problems with South African battlepacks too.  Since installing a "D-fender" to assist the extractor spring, the trouble hasn't recurred.

 I can't put all the fault upon the ammunition I was using.  There were contributing factors in the rifle.  Chamber was sticky because the glue for the labels had seeped through the cardboard boxes inside the battle pack and coated the brass of the cartridges with a residue which caused difficult extraction.  And if the extractor spring was weak it would also contribute towards an FTE/DF incident.
 The S.A. battlepack grouped well enough that I didn't complain about its' accuracy.  I used the UMC for plinking and can't say how it grouped at 100yards.  I switched to other 55gr FMJ ammunition (PMC in a white & red box, USA white box) because of a price difference and because I could fit more of their smaller boxes into a G.I. ammo can.

 I wouldn't hesitate to purchase Remington ammunition in .22LR, .380ACP, or .223Remington (Green & yellow box) when reliability in my firearms is the criteria for purchase.  I use UMC for practice in .38Special, .380ACP, and .303British.
 Remington/UMC seems to leave less powder fouling to remove later during a cleaning session.  With Remington/UMC occupying a good portion of my ammunition inventory and purchased because of pleasant past experiences during target shooting sessions, I'm not comfortable with saying all Remington ammunition isn't worth purchasing.

 I wonder if what you have was made to lower quality standards because Walmart wanted it available at or below a certain cost.  I wonder if Walmart and Natchez have the stuff because Remington is trying to market something more price competitive.
 I don't know.  But I'm glad you brought the item to the forums' attention.

Good luck and enjoy your rifle.

Link Posted: 8/17/2004 10:18:03 AM EST
Ive never had a problem with the Remington or the UMC in any caliber.It is the brand of ammunition I prefer.
My Armalite loves the stuff and prints nice tight groups.My all Time favorite load is the Remington premium 50gr.vmax.
I dont shop at Wal-mart anymore...I get all my ammo from the local gunshop which stocks the 200 round cases of UMC so thats what I buy.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 11:41:54 AM EST
Green and white box, Remington UMC, Made in USA, 55 GR MC L223R3. No lot number visible anwhere unless it's in the bar code (a sticker).

I'll see if I can find some other kind of ammo to try this weekend. I'm either disappointed with this ammo, or VERY disappointed with the rifle at this point! Oh BTW, I was shooting it same position off the same sandbags every time.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 4:25:56 PM EST
It's possible he has the umc non toxic stuff.  meant to shoot indoors.  I shot a box of 9 mm once and it was green and cheap.  But I didn't have any problems with it besides the fact that it didn't appear to be very accurate, but I didn't expect it to be.  I don't know.  I think the remingtonle.com shows this "green and white" box stuff.  I also like remington ammo.  Plus I got a baseball cap from wal mart for $4 and it's my favorite hats.  I seem to have a hard time finding good baseball hats that aren't all goofy once I put them on so that's why I'm telling you about this one.  Don't lock this thread because I'm ranting off topic though, please.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 7:11:39 PM EST
 It looks like Remington has changed the packaging for their UMC line of ammunition since the last time I viewed it on retail shelves.  Their webpage depicts a green & white box, instead of the old familiar yellow box.  I need to get out more.  hehttp://www.remington.com/ammo/umc/umc_rifle.htm

"For practice, target shooting and training exercises, our UMC centerfire rifle ammunition is loaded with metal-case bullets in six popular military-linked calibers. These include the 7.62x39, 303 British and 30 Carbine rounds for related rifles, as well as three other American standards. All UMC rifle loadings are ideal for high-volume shooting. New for 2003, 40-round value packs in 223 Remington and 22-250 Remington 45-grain jacketed hollow-points. The 45-grain jacketed hollow-point in 223 Remington and a 45-grain jacketed hollow-point in 22-250 Remington are superb choices for varmint hunters.

- Caliber - Index No. - Primer No. - Weight(grs.) - Bullet Style
- .223 Remington - L223R3 - 7 1/2 - 55 - MC (Metal Case = Remingtonspeak for FMJ)
- .223 Remington - L223R7 - 7 1/2 - 45 - JHP (Jacketed Hollow Point)
New - .223 Remington(1) - L223RB - 7 1/2 - 45 - JHP
...[Edited for brevity]...
(1)NOTE: Packed 40 rounds per box."

Dear Snake45,

 I hope other ammunition provides better performance in your rifle.  You've mentioned ammunition that already has done so.  Thanks for sharing your experience with us and patiently answering questions.  Sorry I couldn't be of more help.  (The only other thing I'm curious about is, if there were stronger winds while shooting the Remington-UMC?)
 Like others said, some rifles are choosy.  If you're not satisfied with a product, there's little reason to purchase it again.

Good luck.

Link Posted: 8/18/2004 11:29:26 AM EST

There was actually LESS wind when shooting the Rem ammo, a rare almost perfectly still day.

Maybe this gun just don't like this ammo. I thought there might have been a problem with it. If someone had posted a problem about, for example, Federal Walmart Bulk .22 ammo, I could tell you for a fact that it's not especially accurate, because I just tested it in 17 different scoped rifles and it came out dead last in accuracy (although, curiously, it shot the very best groups in the best rifle--an Anschutz--and in fact shot THE smallest group of the whole test! Go figger....).
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 5:51:18 PM EST
Dear Snake45,

 LESS wind?!?  Wow.  Go figure, indeed.
 Chalk up another kudo for Anschutz rifles.
 I'm tempted to pick up some Remington/UMC just to satisfy my curiosity.  If I do I'll post a review and attempt to upload pictures (if I can ever figure out how to do so - where's the dang help file when I need it?).

Thanks and good luck to you.

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