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Posted: 9/17/2004 1:47:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 2:23:12 PM EST by Frank_Sottile]
Is Colt DISCRIMINATING against You?

Colt only wants LEOs to own their AR6920 (LE6920) & AR6721 (LE6721) Carbines, the rest of us are not worthy. But if you & I can buy one (a 16" "Pre-Ban Config" Carbine) made by ArmaLite, Bushmaster, DPMS or Rock River then what they are doing is fact "Discrimination"!

Here is what the BATF&E has in their letter "CHANGES IN FEDERAL LAW AS OF SEPTEMBER 13, 2004 - RELATING TO - SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPONS (SAWs) - AND - LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES (LCAFDs):


LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS AND POLICE DEPARTMENTS

Law enforcement officers and police departments who obtained semiautomatic assault weapons are no longer required to use such firearms only for official use.

Law enforcement officers and police departments may now sell or transfer semiautomatic assault weapons to persons who are not prohibited from receiving firearms.

Law enforcement officers and police departments may now sell or transfer large capacity ammunition feeding devices to anybody.

Signed statements that semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices will be used for official use are no longer required to be provided to Federal firearms licensees.



Yes it sounds like "Discrimination" and maybe we can file a Law Suite.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 1:55:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 1:57:06 PM EST by Stickman]

Is Colt DISCRIMINATING against You?


No, there are plenty of things that are sold only to certain groups/ industries. I'm not jealous of farmers because they can get large amounts of fertilizer.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:16:13 PM EST
Colt can do whatever they please, as far as I'm concerned. If you want a post AWB config rifle, buy one from one of the other companies. If you want to use one with Colt parts, buy a Colt upper and Lower seperately and assemble them yourself. They're not restricting the sales of their parts or anything. The only difference between the LE series and the civilian lowers are the markings.

I just don't see what all the fuss is about...

-Cap'n
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:28:30 PM EST
No, but I am against them.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:30:51 PM EST
Colt gave up on the civilian market long ago. Hence the rise of Kimber, Bushmaster, et cetera. At least S&W had an excuse, and is now once again a reputable company. Colt wants to suckle at the gov't teat, and that's fine, but they shouldn't cry when the XM8 gives them the boot!
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:31:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 2:36:40 PM EST by Frank_Sottile]
Right now Colt is trying to make a statement, that they control the free market as far as Colt AR go. With ArmaLite, Bushmaster, DPMS or Rock River all selling "Post AWBan" Carbines (and some made a lot better then Colt) to persons who are not prohibited from owning firearms. Then Colt has a problem. And we need to let them know.

I remember when Colt was laying off workers because the Govt had enough M-16 and normal sales had dropped off.
Remember the Colt Cowboy? and how many other Colts went the way of the Dead Poney?
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:54:04 PM EST
Frank,

I agree with you, but it isn't a matter of discrimination. That term has been played out, and is now used with cheap theatrics by "Jesse" and the like.

Poor marketing, and a company that doesn't have a clue about their market. That would be more along my lines of thinking. They may very well take themselves out of the picture with this move.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:08:18 PM EST
The hell with them. I hope they go out of buisness of like the 20th time...
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:11:55 PM EST
I bought my Colt LEO anyway. Screw 'em.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 3:26:56 PM EST
It is a brilliant corporate decision!
They will have steady govt revenue and no law suits on the horizon.
They know thousands of LEOs will be making $4-500 selling their used carbines and using the principle to repurchase new carbines.
They know dealers will part out the LEO carbines (for more $ than the whole rifle) and using those funds to repurchase more carbines.
All ya really need is the complete Colt upper anyway.
There's no difference tween a pre/post ban lower.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 5:22:52 PM EST

Can you see this in Court:

A ArmaLite M-15A3 Carbine,
A Bushmaster AR-15A3M4 Carbine,
A Colt LE6721 & LE6920,
A DPMS M4A3 Carbine,
A Knigth SR-15A3M4 Carbine,
and
A Rock River M4A3 Carbine

All on a table in front of a Jury,

and the Lawyer asks "What do these Carbines all have in common?"
A 16" Barrel, YES
A A2 Flash Suppressor, YES
A Bayo Lug, YES
A Tele Stock, YES
.223 Rem, YES
and
A Box Mag, YES.

All in all they are the same Carbine.

"So how come you are NOT allowed to own the Colts, becaue you are not "LE"?"

"Can you tell me what makes the Colts any differant from the others?"
"NOTHING!"

"All in all, are they are the same Carbine?"
"YES"

This is like a Car Dealer saying that he will only sell Ford Pick Ups to "White Red Necks" and everyone else can buy a Chevy, Dodge and GMC Pick Ups!

I bet that the way Lawyers work today, I could find someone. If I wait until after Nov. 2nd. I maybe able to get John Edwards, he has made a ton of Money suing Doctors. I bet he would love to go after a Firearms company.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 7:05:03 PM EST
"This is like a Car Dealer saying that he will only sell Ford Pick Ups to "White Red Necks" and everyone else can buy a Chevy, Dodge and GMC Pick Ups!
"

It's more like Ford saying they will only sell Explorers, that sport a set of Bridgestones, to professionaly registered drivers.
It's all bout litigation.
Nothing personal.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 7:09:40 PM EST
Frank_Sottile,

What are you talking about with a jury? Discrimination? Go sue gun companies?

What side are you on?!?
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 7:12:53 PM EST
Frank and Company,

Let me get this straight - the AWB has sunset, all is right with the world, ding, dong, the Wicked Witch is dead! It's all back to sunny business as usual, is it? Colt is dis'in me man! Really? How childish and shortsighted can you guys be.

You are WAY Premature in calling the AWB dead. The monster may roar back to life in November.

It looks like to me, according to last nights Cable News Channels, that Bush's convention Bounce has dropped to 1% - in some polls - while Kerry/Edwards is out gathering up and registering every 18yr old and above College Kid and is targeting select groups - like 18-33 yr old women, minorities, old people, etc for personal visits from door to door agents to get out the vote. Don't I remember Bush winning the first time by 500 votes? And a lot can happen - like a Terrorist Attack on American Soil, in the next 45 days. The AWB is not dead yet. And if Kerry/Edwards get in, you will have Edwards sponsoring US Govt Lawsuits against the gunmakers, a Supreme Court (for life) made up of Hillary Clinton, Charles Schumer, and Feinstein, etc. And if Congress goes Democratic with them (do you know how slim the margin is in the Senate?) the current version of the AWB that Kerry voted for says TURN THEM ALL IN FOR DESTRUCTION or become a Federal Felon. Think about these implications for a moment. Are you guys really too shallow to think this through yourselves?

Colt is quite rightly content to wait 45 days to find out if they are just going to have to reverse all the effort it would take to put out the guns you want. Hell, most of the anti-Colt complainers tell us their loyalties are already with other brands, so why should Colt bother? I'm sure if anyone in Colt management is reading your words it proves to them "The Civilian Market is wacked and already against us - why bother to cater to them? Building the best AR isn't enough, obviously"

As for not selling LEO marked guns to non-LEOs, do you have any idea how THAT LAWSUIT will look to a jury when someone kills someone with a Colt LEO marked weapon that Colt KNOWINGLY allowed to be sold to the public. Draw up that courtroom vision for us, Frank. The award would be 500 million dollars.

Get real, fellows - you are coming off like a bunch of shallow minded simpletons. If you really care about your RIGHTS and permanently doing something about them you will quit wasting wind attacking a company that REALLY DOES SUPPLY OUR MILITARY AND THE FREE WORLD, quit looking stupid, and exert that energy where it is needed - working to defeat the Dem/Liberals in discussions with your family, co-workers, social groups and anywhere else you can. It ain't over til' it's over.

Warmly, Col. Colt

PS - Sorry if anyone takes offense, but it's really easy to pound your chest and act like a hairy chested n*t scratcher when YOU aren't responsible for hundreds of jobs and the preservation of a business that is an American Heritage over 160 years old. You want to be the one to blow it up - or do you want to be prudent and wait 45 days? The small time operators can take any risks they want - bigger firms have to use their heads. cc
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 7:28:59 PM EST
F@#k Colt, there not the only game in town.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 7:31:58 PM EST
as long as republicans keep the senate and congress it dosent matter who wins even though I want "W".
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 7:46:26 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 7:47:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 7:50:28 PM EST by Bradd_D]
Wow...and I thought my threads were out there.

Edited to add: Thanks Col_Colt for the voice of reason.

Link Posted: 9/17/2004 8:09:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By Frank_Sottile:
Is Colt DISCRIMINATING against You?

Colt only wants LEOs to own their AR6920 (LE6920) & AR6721 (LE6721) Carbines, the rest of us are not worthy. But if you & I can buy one (a 16" "Pre-Ban Config" Carbine) made by ArmaLite, Bushmaster, DPMS or Rock River then what they are doing is fact "Discrimination"!

Here is what the BATF&E has in their letter "CHANGES IN FEDERAL LAW AS OF SEPTEMBER 13, 2004 - RELATING TO - SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPONS (SAWs) - AND - LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES (LCAFDs):


LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS AND POLICE DEPARTMENTS

Law enforcement officers and police departments who obtained semiautomatic assault weapons are no longer required to use such firearms only for official use.

Law enforcement officers and police departments may now sell or transfer semiautomatic assault weapons to persons who are not prohibited from receiving firearms.

Law enforcement officers and police departments may now sell or transfer large capacity ammunition feeding devices to anybody.

Signed statements that semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices will be used for official use are no longer required to be provided to Federal firearms licensees.



Yes it sounds like "Discrimination" and maybe we can file a Law Suite.



No company is required to do business with anyone...

They do not HAVE to sell you a product if they don't want to....

The only actionable 'Discrimination' is discrimination based on military service, race, sex, creed, or ethnicity.

If a company only wants to sell to (retailers, cops, other companies, the military) they ahve a right to make that decision and enforce it thru contract law...
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 8:26:16 PM EST
Get over it already
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 1:21:53 AM EST
Excellent post Col_Colt;people do not understand how precarious the situation is.In about two months it might be illegal to own any AR with no grandfathering as was allowed in 1994.We all were witness to the liberals onslaught of lies and the medias ignorance and lack of guts to challenge them with facts.Even Fox,"fair and balanced",was against us.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 1:23:56 AM EST
Colt can sell what they want to who they want.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 1:45:49 AM EST
I wonder how many Colt-bashers would jump all
over the chance to own a LE6920 if/when they become
available. If I have to but the upper and lower seperately,
then that is what I'll do. Should take about 6 seconds or so
to assemble.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 3:12:08 AM EST
Col_Col t,

you make a good point about the AWB not being dead yet. Maybe it is only in a coma.

If sKerry does win, he surely will have his cronies serve up a new, and this time stronger bill that isnt made to look foolish by all those who skirted the cosmetic restrictions of the first.

Dont forget that 68% of Americans- and I would guess a similar number of congressional votes- who were polled, said they favored a (the) ban on AW's

The moral to this is to get out and vote, and take someone-like minded- with you.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 3:50:32 AM EST
What they said, and to hell with their football team too!
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 4:16:37 AM EST
Where are you getting this information?
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 4:49:19 AM EST
I think that it is bad business. Why would any one want to buy a Colt in a post ban configuration when they can get a pre ban from another company for less money?
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 4:00:13 PM EST
Thank you, Col. Colt, for your informed and reasoned post. Since the expiration of the ban, there is no distinction between LE and civilian rifles/carbines, whether in post-ban or "pre-ban" configuration, as long as they are semi and not select-fire. I took delivery of a LE6920 on 9/15/04. ATF's website clearly states that the LE Only markings are meaningless after 9/13/04. Get a clue guys - Colt may state "officially" that the "LE" rifles are for LE only, but dealers sell guns, not the factory, and any Colt dealer out there will sell a LE rifle to a civ who is not otherwise a prohibited possessor. I decide to buy a "marked" Colt rather than an unmarked Brand X in pre-ban config because it is a fact that from all the research I have done, the majority of training facilities and individual professional trainers say that Colt is simply the most reliable mfr. in the business.

Hornet22
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 4:07:46 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 4:32:20 PM EST
Someone's discriminating against me? Boo hoo! Better call Jesse in to shake Colt down for a couple million dollars.

Link Posted: 9/18/2004 4:34:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By melbo9:

I kinda took this as a joking way to ask WTF was up with Colt saying that they will not sell 'NO-BAN' config to Civvies. I feel that Colt can do whatever they want and we can choose to buy from whomever we want. but,

I just don't see how Colt thinks they can control the ultimate end user of their Rifles.

Give the guy a break... I think he's trying to point out some irony here and I don't really think he's advocating REAL LIVE LAWSUITS against Gun Manufacturers.

my .02

melbo



Melbo is exactly right, that is what I was doing. It was something to think about, food for thought. It was a good topic, got a lot of input from the other members.

Frank
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