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Posted: 9/16/2010 1:05:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2010 10:25:03 PM EDT by 597newbie]
I appreciate your time and suggestions!  

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Iron Sights (front and rear) needed for S&W M&P 15OR .223 Carbine 16" Flat top.  
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Updated Edit -  Folding front and rear sights needed (not fixed).  
2nd updated edit - photo of how the front sight block rail is at the exact same height as receiver rail (and not sunken below).  

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Photo link is below:  
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/31/products_id/53496

If you look at the flat top photo on the link above, the front sight will be sitting on my gas block.   I have put a ruler on it and it was level with the rear rail.  

Have read that some front sight bases should not be installed on gas block due to heat (magpul composites)

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I have purchased 2 different front and rear sights and neither have worked due to front sight is so high that rear sight views into the metal (and not on the sight).  I pointed  my laser bore sighter directly thru the peep hole on the rear sight and it points into the metal block (and has not hope of hitting the actual sight).   There is no way to crank down the sight enough on either.

1.  NC star sights (Do NOT laugh).  Ok... it is funny.  you can laugh.   The sites would have worked fine for testing and something to get me on the range but the front sight base was way to high.   took back to CTD and bought next one.

2.  promag -  no instructions but again, would have worked but front sight base way too high.    

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Do you know of any 'shorter' front sight bases?   Does not have to be Navy Seal approved.  Budget is ok with me.  

I love Iron Site shooting.   My youtube channel has me shooting 300 yards no scope with my yugo and russian mausers and my norinco sks  http://www.youtube.com/user/300yardnoscope
Link Posted: 9/16/2010 1:27:51 PM EDT
I would think that since the rail on your gas block is the same height as the rail on your upper that a rail mount sight something  like this should work for you.
Link Posted: 9/16/2010 1:38:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By marmilia:
I would think that since the rail on your gas block is the same height as the rail on your upper that a rail mount sight something  like this should work for you.


Thank you for the response.  

That is a fixed sight.  I am going to edit my post above to specify folding front and rear sights.  
Link Posted: 9/16/2010 2:03:24 PM EDT


Here is something I need to investigate.  

Note: Sight is designed to work on same plane rail systems only. Will not work with a railed gasblock that is higher or lower than the receiver.
Front sight plane is the same as the factory "F" marked front sight post.

http://www.cgwgun.com/AR15-Sights/Troy-Folding-HK-Front-Battle-Sight__FBSFHK-BLK.aspx
Link Posted: 9/16/2010 2:05:15 PM EDT
Check out Troy folding sights.

"Designed to be used on the same height MIL-STD-1913 Picatinny rail as the rear sight ".
Link Posted: 9/16/2010 2:14:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MHarvey124:
Check out Troy folding sights.

"Designed to be used on the same height MIL-STD-1913 Picatinny rail as the rear sight ".


Thanks for the help!  I think we posted the same thing at the same time.  I just stumbled across it.

Your post confirms I need to look at this.
Link Posted: 9/18/2010 9:58:01 AM EDT
Confirmed problem when I took 2nd set of sights back to cheaper than dirt retail store.   Rail heights on front gas block are level with rear rails so front and rear iron sights will not work.   Most AR15s have a slightly lower front gas block (or so I was told).

Store employee had purchased same SW AR15 as I did and exact same Promag sights but did not install them yet so he knew to return.  I took my upper in to show it had level sights and how rear sights look into the metal part of the front with no way to adjust.  We also tried another set of promag rear sights and they did not work either.    All Cheaper than dirt employees very helpful.  

AR-15 Flip Up Front Gas Block Sight Pro Mag Adjustable for Elevation Quick Detach
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ARR163-7.html

AR-15 Flip Up Rear A2 Sight Pro Mag Dual Apertures Quick Detach Windage Adjustable
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ARR162-7.html

AR-15 Low Profile Flip Up Rear Sight Pro Mag Single Plane Dual Apertures Quick Detach
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ARR161-7.html

Link Posted: 9/18/2010 12:12:34 PM EDT
If you don't want to spend much, look at YHM folding front and rear sights.  If you want the best, then look at troy.  YHM front and rear run $140 or so new and troy front and rear run $200 or so new.
Link Posted: 9/18/2010 12:42:11 PM EDT
I just put troys on mine; they are very solid and well made.  I like them so much I'm getting another set for my back up OR.

They are worth the coin
Link Posted: 9/18/2010 4:29:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By goldeneye:
If you don't want to spend much, look at YHM folding front and rear sights.  If you want the best, then look at troy.  YHM front and rear run $140 or so new and troy front and rear run $200 or so new.


thanks for the reply!   based on that I looked up and found this...  are these the ones you were talking about?  
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http://yankeehillmachine.com/store/product532.html

Q.D.S. Same Plane Sight System
YHM is very proud to introduce the newest addition to our product lineup. The Quick Deploy Sight System features an automatic deploy system that springs the sight up with the push of a button. Both front and rear sights lock positively in the folded and deployed positions and are made from aircraft quality aluminum and hardcoated to military specifications.

The rear sight is available with either a single large peep, single small peep, or dual peep aperture. When folded the sight measures just .435 inches from the rail.

The front sight mounts on the same plane as the rear and uses standard hardware. It is available with either a hooded or standard stem. When folded the sight measures just .435 inches from the rail..
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If i get one, i think dual peep with hooded stem option.  
Link Posted: 9/18/2010 4:39:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By El_Pharmaceutico:
I just put troys on mine; they are very solid and well made.  I like them so much I'm getting another set for my back up OR.

They are worth the coin


thanks for your help.  which set of sights did you buy and was your optical rifle a true flat top or was the front site block lower than the receiver rail?

also, which troys did you purchase?  link below:

http://store.troyind.com/BattleSights_s/3.htm
Link Posted: 9/18/2010 4:54:46 PM EDT
would this work?    are the front and rear sights exactly the same height?  why dont they list the height from rail?

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Samson FFS & FRS Sight Package (Best Value)
http://www.samson-mfg.com/ar-15_html/product/QF-FFS-FRS.html

Samson FFS & FRS Sight Package (Best Value)

Samson has recently introduced a new line of flip up front sights as well as a flip up rear BUIS.

All sights are made from 6061 aluminum mil-spec hardcoat anodized for durability.
All of the sights lock in both deployed and folded positions.
The spring mechanism is quite durable and is completely concealed to prevent fouling from dirt.
Samson QF-FRS - Flip Up Rear Sight


The dual aperture rear BUIS has a conventional large and small aperture.
The sight deploys with the large aperture.
Link Posted: 9/20/2010 5:14:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2010 5:15:02 PM EDT by 597newbie]
If I bought one of these   http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG405/50

1.  could I install the rail they sell for them on top?   http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG409/103

2.  would that rail on the magpul front handguard be level enough to the rear rail on the receiver to install these front and rear sights?  http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=27446/Product/AR_15_M16_MBUS_SIGHT_SYSTEM
Link Posted: 9/20/2010 10:01:08 PM EDT
I sent you a pm.

Also a front folding Troy sight for same plane would work I believe. I dont see no reason why it wouldn't.
Link Posted: 9/21/2010 3:58:01 PM EDT
When I look at $200 for a Same Plane Sight System I stop and think...  

Should I spend under $500 for a Spikes Tactical mid length upper for only $300 more?  I could get a dedicated iron sights upper (just buy a cheap rear sight and use blue loctite to keep on like I do all my rings/scopes/sights) and keep my current rifle optical only.  

I dont want to do that so I will research more and see if I can figure out if the magpul handguard (listed above)  will take a rail on top and the magpul front sights will be able to line up correctly with the rear sights.  

Link Posted: 9/21/2010 5:12:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2010 5:15:34 PM EDT by amos1909]
I got  Troys on Ebay for around $145 shipped for the set!! Just keep looking the deals are there.



Amos1909
Link Posted: 9/21/2010 5:45:28 PM EDT
I have the same weapon.  I have installed Midwest Industries same plane folding front sight, and their rear folding sight as well.  No problems yet after 500 or so rounds.
Link Posted: 9/22/2010 11:21:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By amos1909:
I got  Troys on Ebay for around $145 shipped for the set!! Just keep looking the deals are there.

Amos1909


did you get these?  Micros?  http://store.troyind.com/Front_Rear_BattleSight_Sets_s/62.htm

I need the same plane sights (not the normal set).    
Link Posted: 9/22/2010 12:40:42 PM EDT


^ I can hook you up with that one with a sick deal. Then all you would need is the front M4 folding battle sight ( The basic one that Troy makes is used for same plane which the SW MP needs).

Link below for front battle sight

http://store.troyind.com/M4_Front_Folding_Sights_p/ssig-fbs-fmbt-00.htm



I hope I can help you out and hook you up man.

Take care,

Ryan
Link Posted: 9/22/2010 2:20:20 PM EDT
I have purchased this (for a reason unreleated to iron sights)

MOE Handguard, Carbine, Black and some rails

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=53235/pid=27484/sku/MOE_Handguard__Carbine__Black

Will wait for it to come in and if the rail on top of the magpul handguard is level with the rail on the receiver (I am not counting on this) will use the magpul iron sights for $100 total.  

If not, will look at the Troys again.  $100 is tough for iron sights.   I paid $75 for my sks in the 90s and it had iron sights and a gun, too.  For under $500 I can get another upper and have 2 AR15s.  
Link Posted: 9/22/2010 5:38:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 597newbie:
I have purchased this (for a reason unreleated to iron sights)

MOE Handguard, Carbine, Black and some rails

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=53235/pid=27484/sku/MOE_Handguard__Carbine__Black

Will wait for it to come in and if the rail on top of the magpul handguard is level with the rail on the receiver (I am not counting on this) will use the magpul iron sights for $100 total.  

If not, will look at the Troys again.  $100 is tough for iron sights.   I paid $75 for my sks in the 90s and it had iron sights and a gun, too.  For under $500 I can get another upper and have 2 AR15s.  


Just remember with the Troy's you will find no better sights. Buy once, cry once. Sounds like you already broke that rule.  
Link Posted: 9/22/2010 9:21:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MHarvey124:
Originally Posted By 597newbie:
I have purchased this (for a reason unreleated to iron sights)

MOE Handguard, Carbine, Black and some rails

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=53235/pid=27484/sku/MOE_Handguard__Carbine__Black

Will wait for it to come in and if the rail on top of the magpul handguard is level with the rail on the receiver (I am not counting on this) will use the magpul iron sights for $100 total.  

If not, will look at the Troys again.  $100 is tough for iron sights.   I paid $75 for my sks in the 90s and it had iron sights and a gun, too.  For under $500 I can get another upper and have 2 AR15s.  


Just remember with the Troy's you will find no better sights. Buy once, cry once. Sounds like you already broke that rule.  



The reason the other 2 sets didnt work is because they are not same plane sets.  they were built for the normal lower front sight block and not the one I have.   The ones I found above (troy, MI and samson) are built for same plane front sight block.    and magpul makes a same plane.  
Link Posted: 10/4/2010 6:02:43 PM EDT
Thanks to the posters for your help.  I was able to learn a whole lot (see above) about iron sights and I identified same plane iron sights for others in the group with the same AR.

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Decided not to buy iron sights for my first AR15 and i love iron sights.

Will go with this  http://swfa.com/Vortex-2-7x32-Viper-Rifle-Scope-P11227.aspx


chose Versa-Plex C3 reticle allows quick and easy target acuisition at closer distances while still maintaining precision at a distance

final costs:

VPRM02G4 Vortex 2-7x32 Viper Rifle Scope1$169.95
137K Butler Creek Lens Caps Kit1$15.95
Tax: $10.31
Shipping and Handling:$11.06 (with insurance)
Total: $213.21


Link Posted: 10/26/2010 12:28:36 PM EDT
had this scope for a few weeks and it is great.  arfcommer's recommended to me.
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