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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/13/2003 8:24:56 AM EDT

b. Engagement ranges are close. Studies and historical analyses have shown that only 5 percent of all targets are more than 100 meters away. About 90 percent of all targets are located 50 meters or less from the identifying soldier. Few personnel targets will be visible beyond 50 meters and they usually occur at 35 meters or less. Engagement times are short. Enemy personnel present only fleeting targets.


This discusses MOUT and FIBUA mostly; but I think it has other implications as well.



Link Posted: 2/13/2003 9:24:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2003 9:25:23 AM EDT by Combat_Diver]
Ranges engaged during last Gulf war for me south of Baghdad close 150m to far 475m. Didn't take the bad guy out at 25m with suppressed M9 for he was not an identifable BG until 150m then he produced a folding AK from under his robes and opened up. 150m shots where with M16A2 and 475m with (max range) 40mm HEDP. De Oppresso Liber
Link Posted: 2/13/2003 10:39:38 AM EDT
Hmm.... wish i could get my old 40mm back... that was quite the tool in my infantry days..
Link Posted: 2/13/2003 1:49:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2003 1:53:01 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
Originally Posted By Bartholomew_Roberts:
b. Engagement ranges are close. Studies and historical analyses have shown that only 5 percent of all targets are more than 100 meters away. About 90 percent of all targets are located 50 meters or less from the identifying soldier. Few personnel targets will be visible beyond 50 meters and they usually occur at 35 meters or less. Engagement times are short. Enemy personnel present only fleeting targets.
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This discusses MOUT and FIBUA mostly; but I think it has other implications as well.
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This is the doctrinal justification for going to the M4 as a general issue item instead of just for specialists. Nor do I think the authors asked the men of the 1/75th, 1/84th, 1/187th and 3rd PPCLI about their experiences in Afghanistan during Anaconda before issuing this document...
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 10:12:07 AM EDT
Just looking at this old post and noticing how well the predicted ranges jived with the reported ranges from the Marine report on OIF.
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 10:38:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: Nor do I think the authors asked the men of the 1/75th, 1/84th, 1/187th and 3rd PPCLI about their experiences in Afghanistan during Anaconda before issuing this document...
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Statistically it wouldn't have matter anyway. These studies use data going back to at least the Spanish American war. Even when our guys were using the M1 Garand (.30-06) the ranges were much shorter (WWII & Korea). It comes down to what you can see and hit effectively.
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 10:46:22 AM EDT
It is statistics, of course there are going to be battles that are much farther away, just like their are engagements that are much closer. It might make more sense to figure regions of the world and figure it that way. Desert regions offer the opportunity for longer shots, versus a jungle or city environment that offers an up close view of everything.
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 2:54:21 PM EDT
speaking from experience......any range is too close, when it's comes to enemy soldiers.
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 3:41:08 PM EDT
From the Field Report, Marine Corps Systems Command Liaison Team Central Iraq, 20 April to 25 April 2003. [b]Almost all interviewed stated all firefight engagements conducted with small arms (5.56mm guns) occurred in the twenty to thirty (20-30) meter range. Shots over 100m were rare. The maximum range was less than 300m. Of those interviewed, most sniper shots were taken at distances well under 300m, only one greater than 300m (608m during the day). After talking to the leadership from various sniper platoons and individuals, there was not enough confidence in the optical gear (Simrad or AN/PVS-10) to take a night shot under the given conditions at ranges over 300m. Most Marines agreed they would “push” a max range of 200m only[/b]
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 4:11:55 PM EDT
During my days with the 82nd I was in a class "A" inspection. For those of you who have been through these you never know what your CSM (Command Sgt. Major) is going to ask. It's usually how many different rounds of 40mm there are (theres no right awnser for this one) or whats the max effective range of your assigned weapon. Well my CSM knew I was Company Armorer and he thought I knew everything (I knew how grease palms to get things in reality) well he asked everyone in HQ PLT crazy questions about the jobs supply, RTO, NBC ect... well my question, whats the minimum effective range of the M4? Whats your awnser? Mine "from me to you CSM". He told me later the point was that even thought I was an Armorer/ XO's RTO I should be ready to see most of my kills up close. I'm watching History channel right now regarding the M16 and the first 10min has been about ranges in which Infantrymen engage the enemy and that the effective ranges of there M1's was not being used even the target rich Koren war. Glockdog Airborne!!
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