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Posted: 9/16/2004 6:21:21 PM EST
The closed bottom on my Phantom 5C2 is at about 5:00 when hand tight with a crush washer. Is it possible to turn it almost 360 degrees? Does the crush washer provide that much play? Am I in danger of damaging something by applying that much torque to the suppressor?
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 6:46:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By triburst1:
The closed bottom on my Phantom 5C2 is at about 5:00 when hand tight with a crush washer. Is it possible to turn it almost 360 degrees? Does the crush washer provide that much play? Am I in danger of damaging something by applying that much torque to the suppressor?



Same question / setup here as well.... looking forward to the answer from a local pro on here :)
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 7:44:47 PM EST
You could probably get two full turns out of it if you cranked on it enough. The crush washer is designed to crush as you torque it so go ahead and turn it till it all lines up correctly.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 7:51:26 PM EST

You might try pre-crushing the washer a little in a vice to make it easier.

I have never done this myself, so caveat emptor.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 8:02:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hoplophile:
You could probably get two full turns out of it if you cranked on it enough. The crush washer is designed to crush as you torque it so go ahead and turn it till it all lines up correctly.



Yep, I've given it almost a whole turn without working at all. I would recommend using a barrel vise (instead of a receiver vise) to minimize twisting of the bbl in the receiver (in case your index pin has a little play).
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 8:03:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 8:14:37 PM EST
Or you could try getting peel washers and just peel away how many layers you dont need till it fits the way you want it to when useing only one washer on mine the slots are facing to the left and need 1/4 turn to face up so i had to peel down another to get the right spacing that make sence
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 11:30:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 12:27:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By VA-Spook:
Or you could try getting peel washers and just peel away how many layers you dont need till it fits the way you want it to when useing only one washer on mine the slots are facing to the left and need 1/4 turn to face up so i had to peel down another to get the right spacing that make sence




Ummmmmm NO....
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 8:04:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2004 8:06:05 PM EST by JCKnife]
I haven't seen this addressed anywhere: which end of the crush washer should face the flashhider: the convex side or the concave side?

Nevermid I found it: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=201622
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 4:38:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2004 4:39:57 AM EST by alj34474]
.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 6:07:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2004 6:41:00 AM EST by LarryLove]
I just dealt with this particular issue after removing a pinned muzzle brake from my BM 1/7 GI-profile bbl in post-Sunset glee. I never used a crush washer before and didn't know what to expect, and I found these things don't crush easily. My A2 birdcage was about 270° away from TDC and it was going to take an INSANE amount of torque to get it moving; like timing-an-FAL-barrel kind of torque. It wouldn't budge and I didn't think all this effort should be necessary. Plus, I don't have barrel blocks (only a receiver block) and I had significant concerns that the amount of torque I would have applied would have sheared my barrel index pin, or at least enlarged the index pin slot in the upper.

I tried pre-crushing the washer in a vice as suggested above, and no luck. It would NOT pre-crush.

My solution: treat the crush washer like a peel washer. I filed down the washer (on the barrel side) a smidge at a time, checking the FH timing as I went. It was very easy to keep the filing perfectly smooth and even by dragging the washer along a flat file - no burrs or file marks. At about 90° to go, I took a little off the other side of the washer, bringing me to 45° within TDC (about 10:30 timing). From this point, I torqued the FH down, bringing the top slot to 12:00. This provided a significant but by no means excessive amount of torque, and I have no concerns about the FH coming loose.

I've read excessive torque on the muzzle device can cause accuracy problems; I later used this barrel/FH combo to shoot the best 20-shot, open-sight 200 yard group of this barrel's (and possibly my) life.

My two cents: I think barrel blocks are required for "proper" FH installation using a crush washer. Don't stress that upper/index pin interface.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 6:35:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2004 6:41:20 AM EST by Str8shot]
It's absolutely correct that barrel blocks should be used for the installation of any muzzle device that requires a decent amount of torque. The indexing of the barrel can certainly be disturbed.

According to the guys at Capco, Inc. (the folks who devised the particular crush washer used in this application) there are some bogus crush washers on the market that, while they resemble the real thing, are cheap knock-offs that will not crush as per spec! I don't know how one can differentiate between the two without actually attempting to install it and possibly learning the hard way! I suppose that the only safe thing to do is to buy only from a trusted supplier who only sells quality parts, preferably one who also works with the stuff.

BTW - Capco, Inc. only furnishes its products on govt contracts, so they have nothing to gain by pointing this out! They lease our club range one morning per week for testing of their product (M16A2 conversion kits for the remaining M16A1s in govt inventory) and I sometimes shoot along side of their QC crew when they're running over their lease time on the firing line.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 7:01:45 AM EST
FYI, I had 2 Bushmaster crush washers that just won't crush, at least not with a reasoable amount of torque. I also had to file down the area and then fix it myself. I can't imagine Bushmaster with fake washers.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 10:05:15 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 12:00:49 PM EST
I just installed mine correctly, first time I had the crush washer on wrong,2nd time I had it on right, but couldnt get to crush enough to timed my phantom.
So, went to wally world,purchased a $10 vice,came home and mounted the vice on my work bench, used duck tape around barrel,placed barrel in vice & tighted the chit out of it, place crush washer on properly and than screwed on phantom, got it to crush easily this time around.

Now Phantom is properly installed and was'nt such a hassle, without a vice, chit, might as well give up.

TG
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 12:05:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2004 1:25:01 PM EST by Hawkeye]
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