User Panel
There are plenty of people who feel they don't need a flashlight or optic, thats great, but it doesn't change that those tools make for a more effective platform. I've no trouble with iron sights most of the time, but if you've ever done serious work at night, or in dissimilar light situations, you understand why optics reign as king.
Its not a question of a basic platform being effective, its a matter of what is most effective. However, I strongly encourage people to shoot what makes them happy. The more trigger time you get, the better a shooter people tend to be. My concern is the guys who watch my back, and those who I watch over in return. |
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A lot of excelent points. But may I politely suggest that a heavier bbl would infact handle heat better, whichever handguards you use? Just a thought. Also BTW, on your 11.5", for the ultimate in controling an AR pistol, try an ERGO AMBI w/ a small panel of skateboard tape on either side. I had the opportunity to try an AR pistol so equipped some time ago and thare was a noticable improvment in handling. DIY for under $30. I doubt you'll be disappointed. |
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Good post.
The stuff I've added onto my basic carbine is there because there is a need for it. Well, except for the Magpul trigger guard, but damnit, it looks so much better than the factory part, I just had to have it! |
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I also should add that I love the top two weapons in your pic.
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And furthermore...if you've got a 1:12 twist on your 20" thin barrel, it will handle 55 grain bullets like a dream. I can outshoot my modern ARs with my old SP1 any day of the week with cheaper bullets. |
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Yes, it's 1/12, and it does great. In fact, I've decided that I don't need anything other than 55 grain, and only stock/reload M193 spec ammo.
Like I said folks, I'm not against any particular accessory or configuration, nor am I demanding that everyone go simple like me. I'm asking that we consider the NEED as the primary motivator for what we add. Stick says he needs a light and optic because of the liabilities of shooting at night, and that's exactly my point. He recognized an operational need and met it. If we really don't need it, perhaps we should spend the time and money on practice instead. |
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Like you, I love the pencil barrel. I just wish somebody would make one in a 1:12 twist. I know...buy an old A1 upper. But, I don't want to spend that much money just for the barrel. I preffer flat tops. |
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Absolutely agree with StickMan on this one. Since my life is on the line, I will use whatever I have at my disposal. A good sling, optic. light, and BUIS are a must in my book, along with good training. For all my AR's, my #1 concern is accuracy. So things like a FF tube are a must along with a good trigger and good ammo are a must. |
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I totally agree with the first post. If I don't absolutely need it for its intended purpose, I keep it off the rifle.
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hock.gifhock.gifhock.gifhock.gifheadbang.gifhail.gif This is why we live in thehat Congratulations; you are my new hero. |
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I like the idea of a simple rifle/carbine, but 2 problems I see.
No lights=SOL at night when badguys like to play. Eotech I have allows me to have both eyes open all the time, vs staring at the FSP. YMMV |
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Having done some shooting at night, my tacticool AR kicks ass in the dark, you'd be screwed with those ARs. You can hold a flashlight and shoot them, but it's pretty hard. Even with a light, an aimpoint is a big advantage in the dark. Also an aimpoint equipped AR is flat out faster and easier to shoot than an iron sighted gun in full daylight. Maybe YOU can shoot wicked super fast with irons or whatever, but an aimpint allows a shooter to be faster than he would be with irons.
As far as finances, my one tacticool AR probably cost less than the combined total cost of those three ARs. Those are nice rifles, I think the fixed A-1 stock and a-1 sights is good setup. I don't have any problem with those "Tiger McKee" carbines, I think it's a good setup except the fixed carry handle ham strings you from adding an aimpoint or eotech. I think a flat top with a LaRue A-1 buis would be a better set up. I am not compelled to get rid of my tacticool carbine for a McKee, but if my house burned down tonight and destroyed all my guns I would be fine with one of those (with the light attached, I leave the light on all the time) I don't disagree with anything in your "conclusions" paragraph. I have a collapsible stock on my carbine, I occaissionally adjust it, mainly it's easier to carry it in case I have that does not look like a rifle case. Your set up is better for malfunction clearance because you would not have to collapse the stock. If I did not travel a fair amount with my carbine I would agree that your way is better as far as the stock. Nice guns. |
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You missed the rail on the 16" that I said was for a light if needed. I also have a ARMS #2 mount for an optic if needed. Let me say again, I'm not anti-accessory. I'm anti-unnecessary-accessory. Anything that you have objectively determined that you NEED is a good accessory, but if it doesn't significantly benefit you in being an effective shooter, it should be rethought.
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A bike can get me from point A to point B but I choose to drive a car because it is more efficient.
I feel the same way with gear. Sure, KISS is good. I like KISS. However, for a serious (by serious I mean home-defense, emergency, etc...) rig(s), utilizing the advancements in technology is advantageous. Optics make hitting your target easier and faster. A light allows you see your target in dark environs. Both of these make the operator and the weapon more efficient. Both of these are technologies that should be utilized if by none other than those of the prudent paradigm. With that said, there is a line. An optic and a light; done. |
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I noticed your avoidance of the term KISS
In principal, I agree with a lot of your points and I think most people, if they're being honest with themselves will agree. The disagreements start when we try to draw the lines as to what is and is not basic or KISS? Everybody needs to determine that line for themselves. Here is a recent build I completed... It's an M4 with an A1 upper using an XS same plane sight aperture. A very simply yet effective carbine. Some will argue that the Magpul grip and Vltor stock make it less "KISS". I disagree and find those parts make the carbine more comfortable and enjoyable for me to use while not detracting from it's effectiveness or reliability so they will stay. I'm trying to throw together a fraternal twin of this one using an A3 upper and an Eotech. Reason being, I'm just not as effective with this carbine as I am with one equipped with a Eotech. Same may say I just need more training and practice with irons. While that is certainly true, I also have to be realistic and acknowledge that with my eyes, lack of training time and a suitable practice location, I'm never going to be as good with irons as I can be with an electronic sight, particularly at longer distances. I'm not making excuses, I'm just being realistic. And that's what it boils down to. Finding out what's right for you. I hope when people read your post they realize that the rifles you posted are not examples of the perfect AR. The are examples of the perfect AR for you. I think the real message is for the newbies to not think that because they see pic after pic of pimped out AR's around here that they need all of that to have an effective carbine. Start out simple and only deviate from that if you find a real need or advantage in doing so. |
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exactly my point, well spoken.. |
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Don't I wish, cbc! Actually those belong to a couple of stand up members here, though. I am happy with my collection, which is growing all the time, but can't take credit for those fun-lockers. They do look awesome though, don't they? |
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Perhaps the reason why folks like me have gone from AKs to ARs to mess with is there is only so much you can do with an AK but endless things you can do with a AR. I have 11 different AKs. No two are the same but once you have built (and I mean really built) some you kind of hit a wall. The higher end AKs are not much different from the lower end ones. Its a whole different ballgame with ARs.
If you are going to use a AR like I use a hunting rifle i.e. as a tool, then KISS is the way to go. If you want to make different AR varables a hobby then thats OK too. Personally I think a AR pistol is not very attractive and would not even think about building one. What is the purpose for it? What would make it better than a AK pistol which is much more compact. I don't have any use for either but you can see what I mean. My go to HD weapon is a 12ga. Rem. 870. A rifle for HD is not wise IMHO. |
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MRW...dont disagree with you on your points...but would say that while I am pretty proficient with iron sights...for in-close CQB, I am SOOO much faster with the Aimpoint than I could ever hope to be with the iron sights. I could burn 20K rounds of practice with the irons...and would still likely never match my speed with my Aimpoint...
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That's why I included the third pic. SABRE 16" middy. I removed the rail and went back to the more comfortable handguards. ar15.com is starting to remind me of hot rod or show truck magazines...tactabilly bling bling. |
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Then it is perfectly fine. You've identified it as a real need. What I'm talking about are folks that "bling" their rifles for no other reason than arfcom peer pressure. BTW, the pistol as my way of getting an SBR-ish weapon without the paperwork. I can break it apart and carry it in a briefcase when I travel. It's exceptionally handy within 50 yards. It originally started HERE The Emergency Carbine Project |
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EDIT: THIS IS MYht?!
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I wondered how long that pic would take to show up! I love the keys on the grip and the compass on the buttstock!
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Sure I think when seeing guns with alot of gadgets saying to myself "I dont need all that crap"..But I know I maybe missing out on some great technology since I have to try all the gadgets, so I "dont knock it till I try it".
With this In mind I prefer "stock" guns and buy em the way i want them from the factory. I assume most part factory gun parts are made specifically for he gun, and not a unversial aftermarket piece that may fit. |
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WTF no flat pannel LCD or ipod. That is just not right if your going to bling it out you might as well do it right. |
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