Here are my 3 ARs.  A M16A1 clone, a superlight 16", and an 11.5 pistol.

Don't get me wrong.  I like all the doo-dads like railed forends, optics, multiple rail attachments, and the like.  But I have detemined that unless I have a REAL NEED for such things, my money and time is better spent learning to use the simple AR system as well as I can.  By "real need" I mean finding myself in a shooting situation where I can not achieve my purpose WITHOUT the accessory or added feature.  I have a large rubbermaid foot locker full of nice stuff I have bought over the years, put on my rifle, and eventually taken off.  

I'm becomming more and more convinced that we have an "arms race" going on here on the board.  We race, not to become better USERS of our equipment, but to simply acquire "better" equipment.  It's an appearance or ego driven race rather than a need driven race.


If your true purpose of your ARs is to have a hobby buying/selling/collecting all kinds of the latest thing, then please disregard what I'm saying.

I'd like to pose an honest question for all of you, my arfcom friends.  Let's honestly consider the tactikool gear we have and seriously consider the value , in terms of NEED, it adds to our AR platform.  For example, consider your scope.  Do you have significant difficulty hitting what you're aiming at with iron sights that you really NEED the scope to do the job you are trying to do?  If so, fine.  If not, perhaps the money and time invested would be better spent on ammo and practice.  When I started asking myself this question I realized that I had a bunch of guns with seemingly useful gear, but was not particularly adept at operating most of them.  

Here's my conclusions so far.  My ARs are mainly for defensive/utilitarian purposes.
I don't need A2 sights.  A1 with an A2 aperture does the job.
I don't need a heavy barrel.  Even the pistol has a lightweight barrel
I don't need a telestock.  An A1 butt length is more practical for my shooting.
I do need a Levang brake on the pistol.  It directs a large percentage of the blast and noise away from me.  The Noveske is probably better, but not 5x better to justify the price
I prefer the Tango Down grip.  The 16A1 clone has its correct grip, and the A2 grip helps me hold on to the pistol since I can't shoulder it, so each has its purpose.
I have a rail on the 16" from previous doohickys, and left it on because OCCASIONALLY I like a vertical grip during extended shoots, and I might concieveably need the flashlight during a Katrina/SHTF scenario, and the holes in the handguard due to my hack job installing it are obnoxious if I take the rail off.
I do need the M4 handguards on the 16" because that is my "go to" rifle and during extended shoots it gets HOT with regular CAR handguards.
I took the slings off of them last night.  I have them handy if I need them.  but for most of my shooting, they get in the way.

I don't even need color in my picture.  ARs are black rifles.


What are your thoughts on this matter?

There are plenty of people who feel they don't need a flashlight or optic, thats great, but it doesn't change that those tools make for a more effective platform. I've no trouble with iron sights most of the time, but if you've ever done serious work at night, or in dissimilar light situations, you understand why optics reign as king.

Its not a question of a basic platform being effective, its a matter of what is most effective.


However, I strongly encourage people to shoot what makes them happy.  The more trigger time you get, the better a shooter people tend to be.  My concern is the guys who watch my back, and those who I watch over in return.

I also should add that I love the top two weapons in your pic.

Yes, it's 1/12, and it does great.  In fact, I've decided that I don't need anything other than 55 grain, and only stock/reload M193 spec ammo.

Like I said folks, I'm not against any particular accessory or configuration, nor am I demanding that everyone go simple like me.  I'm asking that we consider the NEED as the primary motivator for what we add.  Stick says he needs a light and optic because of the liabilities of shooting at night, and that's exactly my point.  He recognized an operational need and met it.

If we really don't need it, perhaps we should spend the time and money on practice instead.

Having done some shooting at night, my tacticool AR kicks ass in the dark, you'd be screwed with those ARs. You can hold a flashlight and shoot them, but it's pretty hard. Even with a light, an aimpoint is a big advantage in the dark. Also an aimpoint equipped AR is flat out faster and easier to shoot than an iron sighted gun in full daylight. Maybe YOU can shoot wicked super fast with irons or whatever, but an aimpint allows a shooter to be faster than he would be with irons.

As far as finances, my one tacticool AR probably cost less than the combined total cost of those three ARs.

Those are nice rifles, I think the fixed A-1 stock and a-1 sights is good setup. I don't have any problem with those "Tiger McKee" carbines, I think it's a good setup except the fixed carry handle ham strings you from adding an aimpoint or eotech. I think a flat top with a LaRue A-1 buis would be a better set up. I am not compelled to get rid of my tacticool carbine for a McKee, but if my house burned down tonight and destroyed all my guns I would be fine with one of those (with the light attached, I leave the light on all the time)

I don't disagree with anything in your "conclusions" paragraph. I have a collapsible stock on my carbine, I occaissionally adjust it, mainly it's easier to carry it in case I have that does not look like a rifle case. Your set up is better for malfunction clearance because you would not have to collapse the stock. If I did not travel a fair amount with my carbine I would agree that your way is better as far as the stock.

Nice guns.

Quoted: There are plenty of people who feel they don't need a flashlight or optic, thats great, but it doesn't change that those tools make for a more effective platform. I've no trouble with iron sights most of the time, but if you've ever done serious work at night, or in dissimilar light situations, you understand why optics reign as king. Its not a question of a basic platform being effective, its a matter of what is most effective.

Agreed.

I still practice with and use iron sights but everytime I do, I seem to be saying in my head, "this would be a lot easier with a good optic." And it is. Optics make a you more effective without a doubt.

A really good optic is a necessity in my book.

But to go along with the spirit of the thread, here's a picture of my simple carbine.

You missed the rail on the 16" that I said was for a light if needed.  I also have a ARMS #2 mount for an optic if needed.  Let me say again, I'm not anti-accessory.  I'm anti-unnecessary-accessory.  Anything that you have objectively determined that you NEED is a good accessory, but if it doesn't significantly benefit you in being an effective shooter, it should be rethought.

Quoted: Start out simple and only deviate from that if you find a real need or advantage in doing so.

exactly my point, well spoken..

Quoted: MRW...dont disagree with you on your points...but would say that while I am pretty proficient with iron sights...for in-close CQB, I am SOOO much faster with the Aimpoint than I could ever hope to be with the iron sights.  I could burn 20K rounds of practice with the irons...and would still likely never match my speed with my Aimpoint...

Then it is perfectly fine.  You've identified it as a real need.

What I'm talking about are folks that "bling" their rifles for no other reason than arfcom peer pressure.


BTW, the pistol as my way of getting an SBR-ish weapon without the paperwork.  I can break it apart and carry it in a briefcase when I travel.  It's exceptionally handy within 50 yards.

It originally started HERE  The Emergency Carbine Project

I wondered how long that pic would take to show up!  I love the keys on the grip and the compass on the buttstock!