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Posted: 10/27/2004 9:11:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/28/2004 10:25:16 AM EDT by 55Kingpin]
I'm talkin about the accessories or "upgrades" that some might think are necessary and others think are extra crap. Ex. The D-Fender upgrade for the extractor, the Accuwedge, Oversized bolt catch, tactical latch for the charging handle, KNS trigger and hammer pins, etc.

I was wondering what are the opinions on items like this? What do you think is a necessary item or is the current AR fine the way it is?

ETA: I'm talking about anything you add or change that is not "factory" this includes my short list above and anything in between.

Let's keep this one going!

Link Posted: 10/27/2004 9:21:35 AM EDT
The AR is a fine rifle the way it is. Some of the mods you've listed does in deed function, so I would say they improve the AR for the group of people they are designed for.

One example, the upper on my Bushmaster wiggles on top of the lower. So I buy an accuwedge. Does it improve the accuracy of the rifle? HELLLL NO. Does it make it feel like a more solid gun? yes it does. Then again, this wiggle may not matter to another member on this forum.

My 2 cents.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 9:22:51 AM EDT
Accuwedge is a POS. Use the rubber Oring on the fornt lug instead. It can make your AR unable to open without a punch and hammer.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 9:29:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 9:44:59 AM EDT
Thanks for the replies so far. I wasn't really interested in an accuwedge. I have a complete Bushy (my cherry popper) and I have a couple RRA builds (I enjoy building instead of buying complete) and my upper and lower fits are fine for my tastes.

The only real improvements I thought were pretty sound were the PRI latch and maybe even an oversized bolt release, and I was thinkin of putting those KNS pins on a Beowulf.

Does anybody have an opinion on the D-fender extractor "upgrade"?

Just remembered another "improvement" the Magpul trigger guard...???
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 9:46:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 55Kingpin:
Thanks for the replies so far. I wasn't really interested in an accuwedge. I have a complete Bushy (my cherry popper) and I have a couple RRA builds (I enjoy building instead of buying complete) and my upper and lower fits are fine for my tastes.

The only real improvements I thought were pretty sound were the PRI latch and maybe even an oversized bolt release, and I was thinkin of putting those KNS pins on a Beowulf.

Does anybody have an opinion on the D-fender extractor "upgrade"?

Just remembered another "improvement" the Magpul trigger guard...???



The latches, bolt releases, etc etc that works the best with your bushmaster is the one that it came with. After a few thousand rounds, they are even better!
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 9:49:28 AM EDT
D-fender...


i have never had an extraction problem, ever

any ar

bushy, colt rra, pwa

or model 1, sherluk, or m&a parts kit builds
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 9:49:29 AM EDT
The PRI military latch is a defenite improvement over the POS that came on my Bushy.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 10:08:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 10:14:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4Kid:

The latches, bolt releases, etc etc that works the best with your bushmaster is the one that it came with. After a few thousand rounds, they are even better!



Ummm....I've got over 12k in my Bushy alone. So I think I know how well it "works"

I'm just interested in opinions on this new stuff and the personal experiences with this equipment of people on this board.

Actually I was thinking of doing a new build and I was gonna add every gadget that I could find and T&E all of it and report results here. I was honestly just looking for someone who might have had the same idea already.

Link Posted: 10/27/2004 11:06:05 AM EDT
i'd go for an accuwedge and a pri tac latch

the rest i'd forget about
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 11:49:52 AM EDT
I'd go with the D-fender, and the PRI latch.

The PRI latch is such a "no-brainer" improvment, I can't beleive it took 20 years for someone to come up with it.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 12:39:55 PM EDT
I have two guns with alot of extra crap. My current build will be bare min.

Link Posted: 10/27/2004 12:43:05 PM EDT
unless it helps you see better (flashlight/sight/scope) forget it
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 12:47:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2004 12:48:04 PM EDT by Azalin]
Just a quick note on the KNS non-rotating pins since everyone else pointed out that the rest of the stuff you listed was junk. KNS non-rotating pins are not worth the money unless you own a registered receiver or live in a state where pre/post ban still matters. YMMV.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 1:04:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Azalin:
Just a quick note on the KNS non-rotating pins since everyone else pointed out that the rest of the stuff you listed was junk. KNS non-rotating pins are not worth the money unless you own a registered receiver or live in a state where pre/post ban still matters. YMMV.



Agree. They can be justified for a $10k+ M16 or conversion receiver, but for semi-auto they are fluff (unless the pins are already super loose).

I use accu-wedges in two of my AR's because they are pretty loose without them. And I bought a PRI gas-buster charging handle for the new upper for my M16 because I've been told they are helpful when using a can with full auto. I've never needed a D-Fender or other extractor add-on, and I dont' care much for McFarland gas rings.

The question you have to ask is, will the gadget actually help in some significant way. Most won't.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 1:09:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 55Kingpin:
I'm talkin about the little accessories or "upgrades" that some might think are necessary and others think are extra crap. Ex. The D-Fender upgrade for the extractor, the Accuwedge, Oversized bolt catch, tactical latch for the charging handle, KNS trigger and hammer pins, etc.

I was wondering what are the opinions on items like this? What do you think is a necessary item or is the current AR fine the way it is?



Everything listed is extra crap, except possiblt the tac latches in specific situations. Definitely not required.

D-fender is a band-aid for a real problem, accuwedge is a joke for non-shooters or those who dont know any better, oversized bolt catches are for people who wont train and build the correct habits, KNS trigger/hammer pins solve a problem that should not really exist.

Now... none of these things are necessarily "bad" and people are free to customize and enjoy their rifles any way they wish. For me, they are all extra crap.

I do put tac-latches on scoped weapons, and on social carbines.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 1:45:21 PM EDT
Hey, don't dog my Magpul trigger guard!! It serves a real purpose.....it..........wel.......fuck it. It just looks cool, lol. Seriously though, if bushmaster didn't use such a POS, cheap ass of an eyesore, plastic sharp edged junkin trigger guard, it wouldn't be needed. I just couldn't stand having such a cheap looking part on an otherwise quality weapon.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 2:28:44 PM EDT
Let me add "the gapper" is an upgrade, not crap.

I get the point of the thread though, some accs are Gucci, some serve a purpose.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 2:54:37 PM EDT
All junk. I've never taken instruction from anyone who had all of that nonsense on his own weapon.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 3:13:06 PM EDT
Only thing I ever added was a KAC Rail. an Aimpoint w/mount a VLTOR stock mod and a battle grip.
I added the Rail cause I wanted a VFG and a place to hang a light
Got the Aimpoint so I could decrease engagement times and improve accuracy with speed
Got the VLTOR to have a better stock/better check weld
Got the battle grip for Battery storage for the light and Aimpoint

everything else is Factory (Bushy) never saw a need for any kind of tac latch. never had a problem with my left hand's Index finger and thumb (with or without gloves).

Upper and lower has a little play, no biggy. Watched a guy who could not pull his bolt back first morning of a class. Only thing he did was "add a Accuwedge" Guys say "that's impossible".... never met Murphy.

Defender..... why???? are you having an extraction problem. then trouble shoot the root cause. That's like a coat hanger on a muffler!!!

Perform regular PMCS, change critical springs now and then when the round count gets high. Learn HOW to Lubricate and not worry about WHAT to use.

Accessories are a great marketing invention for a lot of industries. Firearms are no exception. hell. some people get into the acccessories more then the base product. but the one constant is they will never make you a better shooter, unless you take all the money for accessories and buy ammo...and then go tto the range .... That's what I do. Ammo and range time. I have not bought anything for my Carbine in almost a year. and I have not seen anything out there I want or need. Just my Humble $.02
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 5:00:28 PM EDT
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. My original grip was bad so I replaced it with an SPR grip and a gapper. My grip is good now. I like it when the shells are ejected evenly and clear from the rifle so I got a Wolff spring. I didn't like my trigger pull so I got some JP springs. My point is, replace things when you can pinpoint exactly what you don't like about the stock part. If there isn't anything and you're thinking about replacing "for the hell of it", then just leave it alone.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 5:20:14 PM EDT
This is great guys....this is the direction I wanted this thread to go.

Keep it up
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 6:38:35 PM EDT
Ok then.... upgrades I do like:

1. Hogue grips. Much tackier and ergonomic than stock grips.
2. PRI tac latches. Not a big difference than stock, but just enough. (I'm a lefty, dont know fi that matters)
3. Single point slings. More capabilities than USGI, and not a lot of dough.
4. YHM ultralight free float rails. $87 is a steal for this piece.
5. A1 front sight posts. I hate A2 front sight posts (too thick)... switch all mine out to A1.
6. RRA 2-stage triggers. Dead ass reliable and WAY better than stock pulls.


I tried ambi safeties... they suck, get in the way, and cause training problems when you arent on your modified rifle. I played with a gapper that came on a rifle I had.... never saw the point. Tango down battlegrips suck... too slick and skinny.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 6:42:32 PM EDT
Falarak

+1 on your upgrades

Definitely agree with the Hogue grip, single points, and RRA 2 stage.

I never thougt about switching out my front sight posts though, Thanks! I'm gonna have to try that one.

Keep it up fellas
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 9:24:08 PM EDT
O-ring over the extractor spring. My gun never had problems, but extraction was a bit weak. The O-ring is cheap insurance, and my brass extracts VERY positively. Wolff extra power springs could be worthwhile, too.

Grip - as you please. I like the battlegrip, since I have a surefire on my gun, and I like the feel. Also incorporateds a "gapper" function

Accuwedge is cheap enough to play with. I like it; it eliminates some noise. Just don't expect it to improve your accuracy as the name implies, unless you've got a terrible, terrible setup.

Magpul triggerguard is nice. I like the Battlegrip, which disables the winter triggerguard. I live in Colorado, which means I need gloves. the Magpul TG solves my problems.

Surefire flashlight. I don't want to wipe a family member.


Not exactly on the gun, but...
Magpul followers for your magazines. JUST BUY THEM. Absolutely awesome, I've resurrected USA mags with Magpul followers.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 9:28:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 55Kingpin:

Originally Posted By M4Kid:

The latches, bolt releases, etc etc that works the best with your bushmaster is the one that it came with. After a few thousand rounds, they are even better!



Ummm....I've got over 12k in my Bushy alone. So I think I know how well it "works"



Hey, don't get me wrong, this is a good question. However, w/ 12K rds through that BM, the upper, carrier, etc are "mated". If you go ahead and slap that carrier into another upper, you may end up w/ some issues. Same w/ putting a new bolt carrier assembly into the upper.

However, if you are planning on building your own, nothing beats a quality upper and a good bolt assembly.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 10:54:21 PM EDT
+1 on Magpul followers, got them in all mine
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 12:39:39 AM EDT
If the weapon ( not an NRA classroom so forgive me!) was sound to begin with, all else is a simple enhancement.

If the enhancement also has a detraction potential, in real world operation, then it is in fact a potential liability.

Iron sights are proven to never lie, but they take more time to get realy fast with,
Tac latches and oversized releases make it easier for the less than commited to acheive results with at the cost of potential inadvertant activation due to their size and prominence.

Lights come in handy, but telegraph you presence.
Optical sights speed aquisition but suffer in less than sterile environments badly.

Batterys DIE at an unplanned and alarming rate.
Trusting ones life to a disposable item makes little sense.
But yet we do it.

Basic platform, lots of dry fire time, and live fire training.

Instruction that guides the individual on a proven successfull path of practice and habits developed is more effective than any gadget.

Widgets like the D-fender have their place.

Folks I trust and respect have their pets.

The simple base package remains.

I will always be more of a variable than my rifle.
Together, we must overcome the most obvious weakness.
It's mostly between the ears.

S-28



Link Posted: 10/28/2004 9:12:45 AM EDT
S-28

Big +1 on that last post.

Link Posted: 10/28/2004 9:21:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4Kid:

Hey, don't get me wrong, this is a good question. However, w/ 12K rds through that BM, the upper, carrier, etc are "mated". If you go ahead and slap that carrier into another upper, you may end up w/ some issues. Same w/ putting a new bolt carrier assembly into the upper.

However, if you are planning on building your own, nothing beats a quality upper and a good bolt assembly.



Ummm.....not sure where to go with this....I have swapped carriers between guns and complete uppers and lowers back and forth with different round counts. I did this to test the same hypothesis you presented, and my conclusion was that quality parts are quality parts and my guns run fine in whatever configuration...YMMV. All parts were returned to their 'original' partners upon conclusion of this test.

All my guns run just fine in their "stripped" state, i.e. without 'add-ons'. I do like to add Hogue grips on every one of my rifles.

You're kinda preachin to the choir. If you have anything different than stock on your gun then feel free to post them and what you think their advantages and disadvantages are.

Definitley want to try some Magpul followers.

Hopefully we can keep this one going and have it provide some good info for effective add-ons and "tactical" hype.

Link Posted: 10/28/2004 3:23:03 PM EDT
btt
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 8:58:32 PM EDT
Gotta call BS on the RRA 2 stage. Its THE MOST REPORTED TRIGGER TO FAIL on this site. Many times it goes single stage and it aint that great a trigger to begin with. Its a NO GO in my opinion above all others. If you want a 2 stage get a KAC if single then an Accuracy Speaks.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 9:10:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
Gotta call BS on the RRA 2 stage. Its THE MOST REPORTED TRIGGER TO FAIL on this site. Many times it goes single stage and it aint that great a trigger to begin with. Its a NO GO in my opinion above all others. If you want a 2 stage get a KAC if single then an Accuracy Speaks.



Not saying this aint true.... but I have never seen a single thread backing this up. Only seen ONE guy state he had one go single stage..... and even that aint a failure. So when you say they fail.... in what way do they fail?

And as far as your statement they are "most reported trigger to fail".... is that just an observation or do you have real numbers? I would venture, behind the stock trigger, the RRA 2-stage is ALSO the MOST purchased and used aftermarket trigger here on the site..... so yes, it will have an apparent high failure rate.... but NOTHING that would lead us to believe it is junk status, as you would hold.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:02:19 AM EDT
I have seen about 1 new reported trigger going single stage every month on this site. That IS a failure. I have heard of a KAC doing this exactly once. No trigger fails to function unless you damage the springs and it wont set off the primer. I have read enough RRA trigger failures to count past my fingers and on to my toes in this year alone. Its one of my pet subjects. Oddly enough I figured JP would fail all the time and I have seen less JP failures than RRA and its the JP with all the set screws.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:06:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
I have seen about 1 new reported trigger going single stage every month on this site. That IS a failure. I have heard of a KAC doing this exactly once. No trigger fails to function unless you damage the springs and it wont set off the primer. I have read enough RRA trigger failures to count past my fingers and on to my toes in this year alone. Its one of my pet subjects. Oddly enough I figured JP would fail all the time and I have seen less JP failures than RRA and its the JP with all the set screws.



Probably because there are 10 times as many RRA triggers in use as there are JP and KAC combined.... due to the price. Not saying it's a better trigger.... because it is not. And you are entitled to your opinion for sure. I just dont find it a fair assessment. I can see not wanting it on a battle rifle (if someone is really concerned... even tho no reports of total failure) but for $77, the RRA trigger is an incredible bang for the buck over stock, IMHO. Most of us probably dont use our AR's as seriously as others do.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:37:07 AM EDT
Purpose of a trigger is to make BANGs.

I haven't heard of a failure yet from an RRA trigger.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:42:17 AM EDT
CRAP
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 6:54:27 PM EDT
It is all Crap. Here is the Crap I use:

RRA 2-stage trigger on my SPR (flawless for over 1000 rounds in the last two years).

Ambi-selector on my M16 (no clue why I did this, I leave the thing in "auto", might as well be welded).
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:06:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
It is all Crap. Here is the Crap I use:



Well said!
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 9:55:25 AM EDT



I do put tac-latches on scoped weapons, and on social carbines.



What the hell is a Social Carbine?!?!?!?
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 11:11:01 AM EDT
ONLY GADGETS i USE ARE AN AIMPOINT AND CHROMED LES BAER EXTRACTORS AND EJECTORS FOR THE OBVIOUS BENEFITS CHROME GIVES.i USE ALOT OF STEEL CASE WOLF AND IT GETS DIRTY SO i FIGURED THESE COMPONENTS CHROMED SHOULD PERFORM TO PERFECTION AND THEY HAVE 6000 rounds...sorry didint realize my caps were on...6000 through the rifle and no problems.Every time I lube once the day before and 1500 rounds straight for the last 4 times..of course Im not dumping but accurate rapid fire.So aside from those 2 parts the only other improvements have been an H buffer and M4 handguards oh and aluminum trigger guards on my Bushy carbines.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 12:45:41 PM EDT
Tritium Night Sights #1 most important thing there is on all weapons.
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 5:01:00 PM EDT
A couple of my guns have alot of "crap" on them..

Free float railed forearms, an Aimpoint, a Compact ACOG, Surefire lights, a verticle foregrip...
The add ons are fun... But I like my A2 M4 barreled Model1 Upper/ Mega Lower with surplus A1 stocked gun alot too. In fact I have alot of fun doing "Action Rifle" matches with that gun...


-sc
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 6:39:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Tritium Night Sights #1 most important thing there is on all weapons.



I think #1 most important thing on any self-defense weapon is a light source. Night sights are useless if you can't see your target.
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