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Posted: 3/9/2005 5:18:43 PM EST
...is it fair to assume that it will be reliable with milspec loads like XM193 and M855? Of all the problems that I have heard of with Wolf it seems to be related to out of spec rifles, tight chambers, etc... I am just wondering if this ammo, because of the steel cases and low pressure, is a good reliability indicator if your rifle puts it down range without a hitch.
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 6:47:44 PM EST
I don't care for Wolf. They are the only ammo that has given my AR's feeding problems. All else (including various other steel cased ammo) has functioned fine in my guys.
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 7:20:39 PM EST
Works for me...everytime.
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 7:50:00 PM EST
Ive fired numerous rounds through my AR without one hiccup.
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 7:55:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/9/2005 7:56:24 PM EST by GC456]
No problems here with the 6 or so diffent ar's I have run the ammo through.
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 8:01:58 PM EST
I've been running only wolf through my new "beater" rifle, a RRA lower with Bushmaster 11.5" w/ 5.5" FH. Have about 500 rounds throughit, zero malfunctions. That being said, I use Q3131A and XM193 through all my other ARs.
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 8:03:48 PM EST
It should be, but the Brits intentionally downloaded their ammo for their L85/SA80 because it wouldn't function with standard pressure rounds. I would think that the only way to be sure is to try a few boxes and try it out on the range.
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 8:15:20 PM EST
My only experience with Wolf so far is with my 7.62. I've had 2 "non-fires" out of perhaps 2,000 rounds, with some ruptured casings in the meantime. Overall, for what I pay for Wolf, I won't complain until something a little more serious occurs. I continue to buy this ammo for my everyday plinking/screwing around ammo. But keep this quiet; the fewer people who know, the cheaper the ammo.
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 8:17:15 PM EST
I have a real strange problem when I use Wolf ammo in my AR's.............It goes BANG!!!
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 4:34:25 AM EST
Over in the armalite forum, somehone had an AR180 that functioned with Wolf, but not XM193. That's the only instance I've heard of it.
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 6:08:44 AM EST
I'm gonna have the final word on new wolf ammo in a couple months. Me and a friend have a 5 day pistol/rifle/shotgun course. We need about 5250rds of 9mm for our glocks (19&26), 500rds of 40 for my HK USP and 1000rds of 223 for my AR. 1000rds birdshot, 50slugs and 50 buckshot.

I think buying wolf is the most cost effective solution. If we fly through with no hiccups, wolf is my new practice ammo of choice.
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 11:43:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By clubsoda22:
I'm gonna have the final word on new wolf ammo in a couple months. Me and a friend have a 5 day pistol/rifle/shotgun course. We need about 5250rds of 9mm for our glocks (19&26), 500rds of 40 for my HK USP and 1000rds of 223 for my AR. 1000rds birdshot, 50slugs and 50 buckshot.

I think buying wolf is the most cost effective solution. If we fly through with no hiccups, wolf is my new practice ammo of choice.


------------------------------
If you haven't already done so, you might think about testing the needed calibers in the guns you'll be using before buying a bunch of it.

It would be a shame to not have enough time to get ammo that works in your guns (if the Wolf didn't).
In your situation, I'd get a couple of boxes for each gun, piss through it rapidfire and see if it works........then order my supply. Also look into getting the correct bullet weight for the twist of your .223 barrel

I know Wolf works in all my guns but one(tight chambered M11/9 subgun) from experience so I never hesitate to buy a large lot of it when I can.

Good Luck in the course......sounds like a lot of fun!
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 5:23:03 AM EST
I've never had and dud rounds with Wolf, but for a while I kept getting really flattened primers. I just rebuilt my rifle, so I don't plan on shooting Wolf in my new baby, but as soon as I build another beater rifle I'll use it without hesitation.

Make sure you clean your bolt face, firing pin channel, chamber, and inside the barrel extension with alchohol or the like -- little flecks from the primer sealant get everwhere, and then they build up. They don't impair function one bit, but you'd be amazed how much red crap you can get out of your rifle after shooting a case or two.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 5:27:07 AM EST
I had troubles with the old lacquer coated stuff, but I just bought a few boxes of the polymer coated Wolf to see if it was better, and it ran fine. I will be buying more, especially with XM193 being $220 a case, that's nuts.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 6:32:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By gvidon212:
...is it fair to assume that it will be reliable with milspec loads like XM193 and M855? .


No.

Here is why: Wolf is .223 and if it works in your rifle then I'd say you had a decent rifle. However if your rifle is chambered on the tight side of .223 and you tried to run the higher pressure M193 or M855 then you CAN have functioning problems (notably during extraction) as chamber pressures will spike higher than normal (you can also pop primers and loose primers in the rifle can cause trigger malfunctions).

Also, as Wolf is generally a lower pressure ammo, if your gas port is on the large side the rifle might work fine with Wolf - but have 'Overfunctioning' problems with the higher pressure ammo.

When I test my rifles for reliablity I use 3 types of ammo:
1) Wolf - as the bottom end of .223
2) M193 - as the 'high pressure military' top end
3) Black Hills 75gr - to make sure it will feed and function with the heaviest weight bullets.

If my rifle will run fine with all 3 of these than I'm a happy camper.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 6:44:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By gvidon212:
...is it fair to assume that it will be reliable with milspec loads like XM193 and M855? .


No.

Here is why: Wolf is .223 and if it works in your rifle then I'd say you had a decent rifle. However if your rifle is chambered on the tight side of .223 and you tried to run the higher pressure M193 or M855 then you CAN have functioning problems (notably during extraction) as chamber pressures will spike higher than normal (you can also pop primers and loose primers in the rifle can cause trigger malfunctions).

Also, as Wolf is generally a lower pressure ammo, if your gas port is on the large side the rifle might work fine with Wolf - but have 'Overfunctioning' problems with the higher pressure ammo.

When I test my rifles for reliablity I use 3 types of ammo:
1) Wolf - as the bottom end of .223
2) M193 - as the 'high pressure military' top end
3) Black Hills 75gr - to make sure it will feed and function with the heaviest weight bullets.

If my rifle will run fine with all 3 of these than I'm a happy camper.




Thanks Forest. That is exactly the information I was looking for, and those sound like good guidlines as far as testing the rifle. Out of curiosity, what kind of "overfunctioning" problems can occur with an oversized gas port and high pressure ammo like XM193? Thanks again for your help.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 7:08:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By gvidon212:
. Out of curiosity, what kind of "overfunctioning" problems can occur with an oversized gas port and high pressure ammo like XM193? Thanks again for your help.



Over functioning can cause symtems that look like short stroke and a too small gas port (extraction issues). You can also tear the rims off of casings.

That's why I use ammo on both sides of the scale. The Wolf allows me to test for an undersized port, while the M193 allows me to test for an oversized one.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 3:49:29 PM EST
I have a one that won't function well with Wolf. Alot of FTF and FTE's. That said, it runs fine in my other 3. I dunno, it doesnt like the cheap stuff.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 1:00:23 PM EST
Wolf works great in my Bushmaster. Never had a ftf or fte in a couple 1000 rounds. Velocity in my 20" barrel averges 2920 fps so it is definetly slower than Q3131 which goes 3271 fps in my barrel. My biggest complaint is accuracy which is nothing to get excited about and the smell of the stinking things. Ever taken a piss on your campfire to help put it out at the end of the night? That's what it smells like to me, hot burning piss!
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 1:39:30 PM EST
Doesn't work for me.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 4:46:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2005 4:49:01 PM EST by FULLMAGTAP]
Not hot enough for mine but works for my brother's. SA battlepacks run without a hitch in mine and his.
Never checked his gas port size but mine runs around (.070).
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 5:24:22 PM EST
So far so good....on my 3rd case with no problems.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 9:50:47 AM EST
9 AR-15's here all but one I built...


All of them run Wolf without any prob.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 2:14:57 PM EST
I've used Wolf in five different AR's, one M16, and a Daewoo DR200 with ZERO problems.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 7:04:21 PM EST
I shoot Wolf ammo regulary in a Colt M4. Sometimes I'd get a failure to extract with the old lacquer stuff but the new polymer ammo works fine on full-auto.

I've also burned a bunch of Wolf .45 in a vintage Tommy and an M3 Grease Gun. Both of these ate the Wolf like is was WWII!

I got a chance to run a couple mags through a UMP-45 last year. It liked Wolf, too.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 8:26:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 8:30:40 PM EST by Andreuha]
What the hell is it with you people and what do you do to your guns?

Bushmaster M17s that hasn't been touched with cleaning equipment in well over 4000 rounds that is running 100% with normal mags, and 98% with beaten up USA brand mags. Bushmaster 16" w/ the phantom'ish brake, A3, and tube stock, with about 1000 rounds on it, only ran a boresnake through a few times for break in, running 100% and 99% with the beaten up USA shit mags. SKS and AK74(screw built), respectively, running 100% with about 4000 each.


ALL the above firearms, I use almost exclusively, WOLF ammo, and get same results from both Laquer AND Poly coated.

No, I'm not big on cleaning, only when A: accuracy suffers from fouling, and B: when function suffers from carbon buildup, which doesn't happen because carbon is scraped off by any moving parts in a normal gun [.22LR's seem to be the exception, from my experience]. Again, they're all very much running 100% even without the cleanings, and yes, I WOULD 'bet' my life on that.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 9:03:38 PM EST
all of my ar's function fine with wolf

<­BR>

but personal preferrence keeps me from using wolf
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 4:30:33 AM EST
All 3 of my ARs run fine with Wolf. I just bought some 62gr Wolf since I never tried it before. It "seems" to run a little better in the M4forgery. My Colt 1/7 (no chrome bore/chamber) likes it and my new build (AF M16 clone, 1/12 chrome bore/chamber) likes it.

10.3K and going strong! Shoot 'em up!!

Personally, if your rifle can't function 100% with ANY brand of ammo it has a problem.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 6:31:50 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:01:18 AM EST
Wolf works every time for me, but get the polymer coated stuff not the lacquer.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 2:23:35 PM EST
I have many AR-15's and some AK-47's...Wolf runs great. I keep my "go to" AK-47 loaded with Wolf. I trust the stuff. Great stuff for plinking/drills.
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