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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 6/26/2003 9:37:01 AM EDT
...imagine how we must look having the real guns.

http://www.nbc4.com/news/2285811/detail.html

Are Terrorists Being Trained In the Washington Area?
Men's Homes Have Been Searched For Evidence

POSTED: 7:05 p.m. EDT June 21, 2003
UPDATED: 7:25 p.m. EDT June 21, 2003

WASHINGTON -- The FBI is investigating whether terrorist training is taking place in the Washington area, News4's Jackie Bensen reported.

Federal agents are investigating a dozen men who used to play paintball games in the woods of northern Virginia as possible terrorists, she reported.

The men, who are all Muslim, told NBC4 they believed the investigation was harassment.

"I find this repulsive, for the FBI to think that I am a terrorist," said one of the men, phone company engineer and U.S. Army veteran Hammad Abdur Raheem.

The group had played paintball for years, but stopped after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, when they became concerned about how it might look, Raheem said.

Bensen reported that over the last few months, the FBI has searched all of the men's homes, looking for evidence of possible connections to al-Qaida.

Investigators said they found weapons, extremist literature and a printout of the layout of the FBI headquarters building in Washington.

However, one piece of evidence listed as a grenade launcher was actually a flare gun, Bensen reported.

The men also had received extremist training overseas prior to 9/11, terrorism expert Steve Emerson told NBC4.

Raheem said some of his group did train overseas, but only to help militant Muslims fight India in Kashmir. He said he believed that some of his group would be indicted and unfairly blamed for the terrorist attacks.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 9:41:04 AM EDT
How about I help you out with the link. [url]http://www.nbc4.com/news/2285811/detail.html[/url]
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 9:57:52 AM EDT
Hmm I've played paintball in the DC area... I wonder if I've seen these guys.
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 5:41:45 PM EDT
The men also had received extremist training overseas prior to 9/11, terrorism expert Steve Emerson told NBC4. Raheem said some of his group did train overseas, but only to help militant Muslims fight India in Kashmir. He said he believed that some of his group would be indicted and unfairly blamed for the terrorist attacks.
View Quote
Yep, just your average paintballers, lots of paintballing in Kashmir. Wake up and smell the coffee. Mack
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 6:15:48 PM EDT
The last time I played paintball, it was with two former SF guys, an ex-jungle warfare instructor, three former infantryman and 5 Marines. To the FBI, we would have been a secret cell from some Honky-milita. Maybe, these guys are secretly terrorists, but according to the new security laws, we are all terrorists waiting to be convicted. If you think being white or American will protect you when they stop at your house,,,think again.
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 6:22:42 PM EDT
Yes sir! New laws aimed at detroying freedom. Next its anyone that shoots at a "real gun range" thems be terroists for sure. The last post has it dead on... they are coming into your house next.
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 8:01:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/30/2003 8:01:44 PM EDT by SMGLee]
Everyone bitch and complain about the gov't going over board, and after something terrorible had happen, everyone go bitch and complain why the gov't haven't done enough. It is a two edge sword.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 9:17:01 PM EDT
Uh-oh. Two MP5 airsoft guns will be at my house next week. My 13 year old and I are going to go in the woods and shoot each other. Hey, if they put me in jail for being a terrorist can I still log on to arfcom? They have internet service in prison?
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 10:13:02 PM EDT
[B]Investigators said they found weapons, extremist literature and a printout of the layout of the FBI headquarters building in Washington. [/B] That along with training fighters overseas sounds normal to you guys? WTF?!
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 10:47:18 PM EDT
um extremist literature could be NRA mebership applications and a paintball match in japan would be overseas weapons training or maybe buying some airsoft guns while on a trip to hk idf the store manager shows you how to install the magazine. we can all be found guilty in the media with a few appropriately placed words and statements. beware....
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 2:07:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2003 2:12:09 AM EDT by model927]
Yea but not all of us are training overseas with a foreign government,or have schematics of federal buildings either,I agree about the freedom issue but if your training to fight against india what does FBI headquarters building layouts have to do with it,ah maybe there from "this old house"an they were looking to renovate the building,please ive got beach front property in south dakota if your interested.And the way the NRA is acting twoard gun owners supporting a shumer bill having NRA literature would probably get you an invitation to a second million mom march.To Stickman and Mack 556,wtf I have smelled the coffee and agree with ya.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 3:10:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2003 3:11:34 AM EDT by TomJefferson]
Sounds like a good reason to investigate to me. Muslim/Military tactics, way to go FBI. I'm glad to see that someone has finaly figured out these terrorist are not blond haired, blue eyed, anglo saxons.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 3:19:33 AM EDT
First of all, we all know how the media portrays the interests discussed on this sight. So 2 days ago you piss and moan about "assault weapons" getting a bad rap on CNN, how stupid the reporters are, Etc, and now you believe this crap. FOR CRYIN OUT LOUD, WAKE UP! I believe the media has played you guys just like everyone else. I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Maybe we can bring Senator McCarthy back from the dead, and instead of hunting commies we can hunt Arab extremists. Lets Blacklist them all, and put them in concentration camps like we did to Japanese americans during WW2. Wake up people, we are being played for ratings. Besides you all have pro-extremist militia propaganda on your computers that the FBI could use to put you away, AR15.com. Wake up and smell the underlying reason for all this nonsense, RATINGS
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 4:29:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 82abnmedic: First of all, we all know how the media portrays the interests discussed on this sight. So 2 days ago you piss and moan about "assault weapons" getting a bad rap on CNN, how stupid the reporters are, Etc, and now you believe this crap. FOR CRYIN OUT LOUD, WAKE UP! I believe the media has played you guys just like everyone else. I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Maybe we can bring Senator McCarthy back from the dead, and instead of hunting commies we can hunt Arab extremists. Lets Blacklist them all, and put them in concentration camps like we did to Japanese americans during WW2. Wake up people, we are being played for ratings. Besides you all have pro-extremist militia propaganda on your computers that the FBI could use to put you away, AR15.com. Wake up and smell the underlying reason for all this nonsense, RATINGS
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........and your point is? 9/11, How soon we forget.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 6:59:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2003 7:32:44 AM EDT by Not_A_Llama]
I assure you, terrorists do definately come white, and they come with names like Robert S. Mueller and John Ashcroft. The death of American rights will never come about from outside, but will be an erosion from the inside, a decay that will be encouraged by those who insist the threat is external. I don't know when literature made you a terrorist. I don't know when paintball made you a terrorist. I also don't know when having a gun made you an extremist militia member. I don't know when, but it's happened. It's happened because misguided "patriots" have taken an undeniably terrible event, and used it as an excuse to go on a witch hunt with implications across the board. These people may not realize it, but they are only making it easier for others to deny themselves of their own basic liberties at a further date. OKC, how soon we forget. Columbine, how soon we forget. American liberties...?
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:16:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By model927: Yea but not all of us are training overseas with a foreign government,or have schematics of federal buildings either,I agree about the freedom issue but if your training to fight against india what does FBI headquarters building layouts have to do with it,ah maybe there from "this old house"an they were looking to renovate the building,please ive got beach front property in south dakota if your interested.And the way the NRA is acting twoard gun owners supporting a shumer bill having NRA literature would probably get you an invitation to a second million mom march.To Stickman and Mack 556,wtf I have smelled the coffee and agree with ya.
View Quote
I have an encyclopedia with a layout of the pentagon. Does that mean I am planning an attack? DON'T BELIEVE WHAT YOU READ IN THE MEDIA!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 8:56:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2003 9:06:51 AM EDT by model927]
No it dosent but these are seperate papers with the building breakdown on it we are not talking about books,and yes civil liberties are important and there are white caucasian terrorists to but it was non american born mostly saudis who flew planes into the world trade center,Im Italian and if it were italian americans who did that horrible act I too would be looking into italians who came to this country in the last 10 years to.Race is no excuse for a witch hunt but what else are we to do,whaen they knew it wasnt arabs that blew up the federal building in oklahoma they started looking for a white guy with antamerican militia ties,and dont get me wrong I beleive in the militia the way the constitution sets down the criteria for one.as in for americans not against them the way tim mcveigh was against us or he wouldnt have killed americans namely children. but if some one were killing americans it would not matter to me what race they are Id shoot just the same white guy or otherwise not caring what group they are with.so profiling goes on with every race and every color,in my city when organized crime was at its height all italians were looked on with suspicion also,and an inocent man went to jail 30 years over it,im not saying to go on a witch hunt but its militant muslims/arabs and what ever other color wich was evident by the american asshole fighting against us in afghanistan that are trying to kill us and our way of life how else should we go about doing it?put evry american under servailence?I think not,Because unless we do that other than profiling thats the only way we are going to get them and at the same time law enforcement has to worry about domestic born terrorism as well,either we profile no matter what color or race or we throw out freedom and put cameras on every corner and every public place and start kicking in every ones doors,and as an american id rather see the profiling.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 9:07:02 AM EDT
until the evidence is presented against these US citizens in a court of law... im not going to take the "statements" about what was or was not in their homes at face value... not that ANYTHING they purportedly had was illegal anyway.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 9:09:15 AM EDT
a "grenade launcher" became a flare gun already. maybe "extramist literature" will become American Rifleman??? and the "Pentagon plans" will become an pentagonal coffe stain on a napkin. c'mon.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 9:17:47 AM EDT
Home Schooling your kids is considered an "indicator of extremist views", "Guns and Ammo" is anti-gov't literature and any map is potentionally used for secret invasions. The US Marines used a tourist brochure from Grenada in 1982 because they did not have a good military map. Maybe these guys are scumbags of some sort, maybe they are not, I'd rather not believe the FBI without checking. I knew a guy first-hand who got into a mess like this. He had anti-gov't wacko co-worker who liked to come over and shoot on his property. They were buddies from work, whats the problem,right??? His anti-gov't friend got arrested and said he was using the property for a "training facility", the FBI raid followed in two days. Nobody charged, nobody arrested and nothing illegal was found, the poor guy was crucified in the local press and fired from his job. They called the air vents to the crawl space firing ports on TV, they drug out his old cammy hunting gear and called it "secret milita uniforms" and they tore the house apart looking for his Glock and Benelli because he had a pile of stickers he got at the local gunstore. This was in Georgia, not a real hotbed of terror. The FBI is gaining a reputation as evidence fabricating idiots, I'd use a grain of salt on stories like this one. After all, the "milita wacko/terrorist sniper" of Virgina and Maryland, ID'ed as a typical loser white guy, mid 30's who hates his mommy, turned out to be two black guys who wanted to kill an ex-wife. They nailed that one perfectly,right??
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 9:23:03 AM EDT
I took a two day tactical pistol class earlier this year in West Virginia. So I had "extremist training in a remote location." I've got a copy of "Gun Control Kills Kids," and a bunch of other 2nd Amendment propaganda, also known as "extremist literature." Several of my friends enjoy paintball on a regular basis, I've gone occasionally. I go to the pistol and rifle range all the time. I shoot IDPA matches. Is this "terrorist training?" You can be made to look heinous very easily in the media. I don't care what training they've undertaken, so long as they haven't done anything illegal. Does reading a book about sex techniques make you in violation of a sodomy law? (Admittedly, this might not matter after the most recent supreme court ruling, but it is the same thing.)
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 12:19:52 PM EDT
Just think how the majority of guys on this board could be portrayed.... Militia extremists - learning and practicing combat skills/ because of going to the range or taking NRA classes Planning a military style assault in the near future - you played airsoft or paintball / because it was safe fun Stockpiling for armed agression - multiple pistols and rifles stored in your gun safe/ simply because you are a gun enthusiast and have a few guns ( George Washington had over 50 when he died. ) Has a large cache of ammunition - thousands of rounds of ammo in your home/ $50 buys what? 5000 rounds of .22? and it is much cheaper to buy other ammo in bulk Ammunition manufacturing - you have a reloader / you are trying to save some dough or shoot more for the same dollar The media can make you look as bad or as good as they want to make you. So can your local, state or federal govt. That is what they did to Koresh. Made him look bad with trumped up stuff. Then they went after him. Best to take everything with the proverbial grain of salt.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 1:26:50 PM EDT
What is terrorism? Terrorism is a lot of things. Simply looking up the definition in a dictionary will reveal to you that a lot of our own government agencies, such as the FBI, CIA, police departments and even our own military could in some way or another fit the definition of terrorism or a terrorist organization. The media, if it so desired, could make these organizations look like terroists. Don't believe everything you hear, see or read.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 1:56:24 PM EDT
OK, I stand corrected. I won't be suspicious of Muslims practicing military tactics.[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 2:21:55 PM EDT
geezus.....whats next...try to take our paintball guns and make us play frisbee golf?!
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:23:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2003 7:29:10 PM EDT by chdaal4]
I have no problem with giving these guys a second look, BUT and thats a big but, I do have a problem when they start describing all the "bad guy" stuff they find in someone's home. I saw a guy on the local news here one time get ripped apart. The police even showed on camera a fully automatic uzi the guy had while he was holding up a mac. They showed a couple boxes of .22 shells on the table and explained how this guy had over 1000 rounds of ammo. What I am saying is that the news and even the police either do not know what they hell thay are doing or they deliberatly give misinformation to make a better story. I would be willing to bet that if you follow this story there will be nothing to it and the guys will be cleared. But that will not matter because everyone will still think they are terrorists.
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