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12/6/2019 7:27:02 PM
Posted: 9/6/2011 5:15:45 AM EST
and all the troops came home. Would this have a huge affect on the ammo market? I can't remember a day when ammo wasn't so expensive. So if the wars ended would this change pricing for ammo, guns etc?
Link Posted: 9/6/2011 6:55:38 AM EST
IMO ammo yes, but not immediately. Guns in general doubtful. ARs maybe in time.
Link Posted: 9/6/2011 7:04:49 AM EST
Not really. Seeing as they can't surplus any ammo, the only thing it would help with is free up machines to make ammo for the civvie market. Prices of metals and everything else needed to make ammo is still up, so there isn't much reason for the price to drop. Short of there being a major surplus of ammo sitting, then prices might drop, but you've already seen a pull back from a couple of years ago as supply has caught up with the demand.
Link Posted: 9/6/2011 7:58:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By damcv62:
Not really. Seeing as they can't surplus any ammo, the only thing it would help with is free up machines to make ammo for the civvie market. Prices of metals and everything else needed to make ammo is still up, so there isn't much reason for the price to drop. Short of there being a major surplus of ammo sitting, then prices might drop, but you've already seen a pull back from a couple of years ago as supply has caught up with the demand.


Yeah, but remember, part of the metal market consumption is for ammo production. So, yeah, price of metals might drop a bit if the Zero throws in the towel.
Link Posted: 9/6/2011 12:07:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By wmccann:
I can't remember a day when ammo wasn't so expensive.


I can!!!
The year of 2009 was the highest ammo prices I have ever seen and right now they are much cheaper.

Some companies were ripping off dumb arses like CTD4DTD LC M855 on sale regularly $1,299.00 for a case of 1,000 round but for you because we love you just $999.99.
Yes, that is right just $999.99 only one dollar a round but wait there's more, we are throwing in a free ammo can, that's right. Out of the generosity of our warm hearts for you our faithful morons errr I mean valued customers, we are giving you a real ammo can all while we slash the price of this great (military rejects don't tell the idiots) ammo the very same our beloved troops are using in Afghanistan.

I think we will see some lower prices because the economy sux so bad perhaps some surplus ammo might drop a bit more and they may threaten the lives of Ivan's family to get him to run the machines at Tula, Uly and Barnaul for cheaper labor wages but as was mentioned the price has dropped based on actual material cost and ammo makers will shut down the line before they make it for more money than they can sell it


Wulfmann

Link Posted: 9/6/2011 12:23:38 PM EST
Ammo companies are in agreement with fed.gov to not make large volumes of 5.56 available to the general public at reasonable prices ever again, "wars" or not.
Link Posted: 9/6/2011 1:20:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By sovereign:
Ammo companies are in agreement with fed.gov to not make large volumes of 5.56 available to the general public at reasonable prices ever again, "wars" or not.




Yes. Its a conspiracy. That's the answer!!!
Link Posted: 9/6/2011 1:27:44 PM EST
I feel it's just like gas. Even though the price is high, people still buy it. So why should companies lower the price ? I don't like it, but that's what I see.
Link Posted: 9/6/2011 2:47:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By scottydoesnt:
I feel it's just like gas. Even though the price is high, people still buy it. So why should companies lower the price ? I don't like it, but that's what I see.

The price is high, but I still buy it. The part you're missing though, is that if the price was lower, I would but a lot more.
Link Posted: 9/6/2011 6:16:45 PM EST
Initially it would probably be terrible for gun and ammo prices.

Every soldier returning home would want a "clone" of their issue rifle and enough ammo/mags to sleep soundly at night in the fort they made from them.

Once the massive buying frenzy was over things would calm down, but I'd guess not for a year or so maybe more.
Link Posted: 9/6/2011 7:40:43 PM EST
considering last year while in Kandahar i popped open a sealed can of .50 with headstamps of 1952 sealed ammo will go back into storage for future wars.

* i am not the only one that while overseas has seen .50 ammo that old
Link Posted: 9/19/2011 5:15:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By scottydoesnt:
I feel it's just like gas. Even though the price is high, people still buy it. So why should companies lower the price ? I don't like it, but that's what I see.


This.

i certainly don't drive unnecessarily as i once did when gas around $1-2 a gallon. Every trip i make in my vehicle is a productive one.

at least you can more easily stockpile ammo for SHTF despite the costs.
My shooting habits are more conservative focusing on accuracy as opposed to the mag dumping i used to do when ammo was relatively cheap.

The days of cheap gas and ammo are gone and someday in the not too distant future today's price will seem cheap too.

Link Posted: 9/19/2011 11:20:06 AM EST
No.
Link Posted: 9/19/2011 3:49:36 PM EST
There would be a bunch of ammo whores who spent too much on ammo
Link Posted: 9/19/2011 4:12:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By sovereign:
Ammo companies are in agreement with fed.gov to not make large volumes of 5.56 available to the general public at reasonable prices ever again, "wars" or not.



Source/documentation for this info?
Link Posted: 9/19/2011 5:36:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2011 5:40:00 PM EST by kaos]

Originally Posted By felrom:

Originally Posted By scottydoesnt:
I feel it's just like gas. Even though the price is high, people still buy it. So why should companies lower the price ? I don't like it, but that's what I see.

The price is high, but I still buy it. The part you're missing though, is that if the price was lower, I would but a lot more.
If I already sell you a gallon of milk for $1.00, why would I get excited about selling you 2 gallons at $0.50 each?

I'd probably just break even at ~ $0.92 to $0.96 each. You're not going to buy that much more.
Link Posted: 9/19/2011 8:19:06 PM EST
YES, what so many seem to be missing is that even if .mil can't surplus it to us, the lower demand frees up capacity at the ATK/etc... munitions plants. Did everyone forget that much of the shortage was due to the fact that just about every production line was allocated to meeting demand from .mil? Our military even had to source Israeli munitions to fill demand (although we only used it for training, don't want to tick off the mooslims even more). Supply/Demand folks.
Link Posted: 9/21/2011 4:15:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By wmccann:
and all the troops came home. Would this have a huge affect on the ammo market? I can't remember a day when ammo wasn't so expensive. So if the wars ended would this change pricing for ammo, guns etc?


I was contemplating this today, myself. I would like to think that the price would drop due to an influx of ammo into the civilian market, but I can't shake the feeling that there wouldn't be said influx. Just remember, the same guys in high places who would like to take your guns away, would be just as satisfied if you couldn't afford the ammo for the ones you have. And they certainly don't want you being able to stock-pile more than you can afford to now. Wouldn't be surprised to see legislation put in place (through the back-door) to limit the amount of ammo allowed into the civilian market, and it would be supported by the same idiots (communists, or just plain stupid) who say that civilians carrying concealed arms will result in wild-west type scenarios... without any regard for the facts.
Am I a little bit of a conspiracy theorist? Yes, but it's not without reason.
Link Posted: 9/21/2011 5:19:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By glocke12:
Originally Posted By sovereign:
Ammo companies are in agreement with fed.gov to not make large volumes of 5.56 available to the general public at reasonable prices ever again, "wars" or not.



Source/documentation for this info?

Don't buy into the tinhat conspiracies. What sovereign is suggesting is called price fixing and it is a felony prosecuted under section 1 of the Sherman Antitrust Act.
Link Posted: 9/21/2011 5:55:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By iNeXile556:

Originally Posted By glocke12:
Originally Posted By sovereign:
Ammo companies are in agreement with fed.gov to not make large volumes of 5.56 available to the general public at reasonable prices ever again, "wars" or not.



Source/documentation for this info?

Don't buy into the tinhat conspiracies. What sovereign is suggesting is called price fixing and it is a felony prosecuted under section 1 of the Sherman Antitrust Act.


Yes it is, but if a pack of smokes can range in price from $3 - $12 based upon the taxes that said state and/or county decide they want to throw onto it. What is to stop them from doing the same thing on ammo or other products that they claim are "potentially harmful" and thus "warrants these additional taxes"? Shady? Yes, but that doesn't mean it doesn't already happen elsewhere. Sneaky, sneaky....

Z - Do you think this belongs in the ammunition tech forum? I'm thinking GD.
Link Posted: 9/22/2011 2:03:24 AM EST
If the wars ended tomorrow, I think it is doubtful we will ever see any U.S. Military surplus flood the market. The powers that be would probably rather see it destroyed than be in the hands of civilians.

Now, I do see other things happening, namely:

1) Ammo makers being able to make more ammo for the civilian market because they do not have big gov't contracts to support;

2) U.S. manufactured ammo that was sold to other countries being re-rimported and sold to the public.

Link Posted: 9/22/2011 9:56:29 AM EST
I never understood why the mil wont sell us any surplus vs. destroying it. The only semi-logical reason I can think of is that they don't want to "compete" with local ammo mfg's, who, lets face it, wouldn't be able to compete with the prices of cheap surplus.

I still would love me some cheap surplus to stock up on though. Fresh cans of 5.56 instead of factory seconds and floor sweeps sold at "premium" prices? yes please.
Link Posted: 9/22/2011 11:12:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By Krinkplinker:
I never understood why the mil wont sell us any surplus vs. destroying it. The only semi-logical reason I can think of is that they don't want to "compete" with local ammo mfg's, who, lets face it, wouldn't be able to compete with the prices of cheap surplus.

I still would love me some cheap surplus to stock up on though. Fresh cans of 5.56 instead of factory seconds and floor sweeps sold at "premium" prices? yes please.
It's been a while since I was in that discussion, but I think it was Billy Clinton who signed the executive order to cut up all the 'surplus' M14s and restrict the .mil from surplussing weapons/ammo to the civilian market.

If I misremember, I'll gratefully be corrected by one with accurate knowledge.
Link Posted: 9/22/2011 1:11:13 PM EST
Prices are high because of commodity investors. It is not based on supply and demand anymore. Prices keep rising even though demand is down and supply is up. Some mills have even been cutting production but keep prices high.
Link Posted: 9/24/2011 4:19:49 AM EST
I fondly remember a time when 5.56mm ammunition (Winchester USA and Federal American Eagle) 55 grain FMJ was $99/1000. I was a handloader then too, but 5.56mm was so cheap it just wasn't worth it to me to handload it, I saved a lot more money loading .45 ACP and .38 Special than I ever would have loading 5.56mm. Of course this was at the same time that gas at one of my usual gas stations (outside of Danville, Virginia on US 29) was $0.699/gallon. IIRC the year was 1999, not that long ago.
Link Posted: 9/24/2011 10:26:21 PM EST
Good ammo is made with commodities like brass, copper and lead. The dollar is a fiat currency which has been ruined. All commodities have gone up in price as a result of the paper dollars becoming more and more worthless.
Link Posted: 9/25/2011 7:32:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By WI57:
Initially it would probably be terrible for gun and ammo prices.

Every soldier returning home would want a "clone" of their issue rifle and enough ammo/mags to sleep soundly at night in the fort they made from them.

Once the massive buying frenzy was over things would calm down, but I'd guess not for a year or so maybe more.


That makes no sense, those of us that wanted to make a clone of our issue weapon bought everything for it while on deployment or already had it prior, this is the age of the internet. I highly doubt any effect would be had on the firearms market.
Link Posted: 9/26/2011 10:08:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By Landric:
I fondly remember a time when 5.56mm ammunition (Winchester USA and Federal American Eagle) 55 grain FMJ was $99/1000. I was a handloader then too, but 5.56mm was so cheap it just wasn't worth it to me to handload it, I saved a lot more money loading .45 ACP and .38 Special than I ever would have loading 5.56mm. Of course this was at the same time that gas at one of my usual gas stations (outside of Danville, Virginia on US 29) was $0.699/gallon. IIRC the year was 1999, not that long ago.


You found gas at $0.699 in 1999????

I started driving in 1993, and I don't ever remember seeing it under 88 cents a gallon.




Link Posted: 9/26/2011 10:12:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By DaveyDug:
Originally Posted By Landric:
I fondly remember a time when 5.56mm ammunition (Winchester USA and Federal American Eagle) 55 grain FMJ was $99/1000. I was a handloader then too, but 5.56mm was so cheap it just wasn't worth it to me to handload it, I saved a lot more money loading .45 ACP and .38 Special than I ever would have loading 5.56mm. Of course this was at the same time that gas at one of my usual gas stations (outside of Danville, Virginia on US 29) was $0.699/gallon. IIRC the year was 1999, not that long ago.


You found gas at $0.699 in 1999????

I started driving in 1993, and I don't ever remember seeing it under 88 cents a gallon.






Was .87 or .89 per gallon between Kaseys and Kwik Shop (7-11) in Iowa before I left for basic training in 1999.
Link Posted: 9/26/2011 11:08:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By DaveyDug:
Originally Posted By Landric:
I fondly remember a time when 5.56mm ammunition (Winchester USA and Federal American Eagle) 55 grain FMJ was $99/1000. I was a handloader then too, but 5.56mm was so cheap it just wasn't worth it to me to handload it, I saved a lot more money loading .45 ACP and .38 Special than I ever would have loading 5.56mm. Of course this was at the same time that gas at one of my usual gas stations (outside of Danville, Virginia on US 29) was $0.699/gallon. IIRC the year was 1999, not that long ago.


You found gas at $0.699 in 1999????

I started driving in 1993, and I don't ever remember seeing it under 88 cents a gallon.






Yeah, I started driving in 1988, and the cheapest I ever saw it was $0.699 in 1999 outside Danville, Virginia. I wish I had taken a picture of the sign. Virginia has a low gas tax compared to North Carolina, and many other places. I have a co-worker who lives in Virginia. He says gas as the station he stops at all the time is $3.159/gallon. At the gas station I use in my town in NC is $3.559/gallon.

Link Posted: 9/26/2011 11:42:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By MilwaukeeAR15:
Good ammo is made with commodities like brass, copper and lead. The dollar is a fiat currency which has been ruined. All commodities have gone up in price as a result of the paper dollars becoming more and more worthless.


So, what do you say today? Lead is running under $.90 a pound today spot price when years ago it was over $1.80. I agree it is a commodity, and I agree the dollar isn't what it used to be. I disagree that commodities are only being affected by the value of the dollar. There is a huge speculative market that has decided to speculate that we aren't going to have a booming economy in the near term, so we won't need as much of the metals such as copper and lead. I suspect we will see 1000 rounds of brass cased ammo for near $250 in the next 3-4 months IF lead and copper stay on their downward trend. There have been a couple dips like this in the past couple years that resulted in 1000 rounds for $275-280 but they have not lasted long. We could be in a similar dip now. Only time will tell.
Link Posted: 9/26/2011 12:12:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By Cpatterson:
considering last year while in Kandahar i popped open a sealed can of .50 with headstamps of 1952 sealed ammo will go back into storage for future wars.

* i am not the only one that while overseas has seen .50 ammo that old


Same here but in Ghazni, and it was Twin Cities .50 cal, 1952 headstamp.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 12:47:38 PM EST
Wow....I could see stamped in the 70's or something but 52? I would have figured we ran through that stuff during Vietnam. Not doubting you just seems crazy that there's that much older .50cal running around out there.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 1:06:34 PM EST
Even the training ammo we use generally has a headstamp that is at least a few years old if not more. Last time I was coaching a rifle range (a week and a half ago) the ammo the guys were shooting had an 08 headstamp. A lot of ordnance that we drop off of airplanes (mainly bombs) is from the Vietnam Era. Some even older than that. It's not suprising to see old stuff getting used up. They stick that stuff into stockpiles and use it up as they need to.


Originally Posted By WI57:
I
Every soldier returning home would want a "clone" of their issue rifle and enough ammo/mags to sleep soundly at night in the fort they made from them.



I think you are overestimating how many gun nuts are in the Military. Since I joined the Marine Corps 8 years ago I've only met a handful of guys that were into guns. I've even met a few die hard anti-gunners during my time in.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 3:55:40 PM EST
10 years ago wen I was 17 we used to drive everywhere for no reason at all. And we used to get pissed if wolf was more than 1.49 a box...
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