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Posted: 12/27/2003 6:51:36 PM EDT
Hi, there are a lot of red dot sight out there. Aimpoint has a 4 moa dot size, some others have 3 moa and even 1.5 moa. It probably depend on the distance to the target and/or target type but what size should be a good compromise?

1.5 moa is probably very good for long shot but I am not sure what kind of speed for target acquisition. At the other end 4 moa might be a bit large for long shot but probably better at close range.
Why life is so complicated!!!???

Clovis
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 7:06:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By clovis:
Why life is so complicated!!!???
Clovis
View Quote


It isn't. [:)]

If you're looking at an Aimpoint for an AR, IMHO (and many on the board will agree) then you should only be looking at the ML-2 or M-2, both with 4 MOA dots. These optics are meant to be be precision tools unlike a magnified scope with crosshairs. If you zero an Aimpoint at 50 yds, the round (assuming it's decent quality ammo and you do your job as the shooter) will land some where within that dot out to 225 yds. Aimpoints (like other red dots sights) are designed for quick target acquisition on human sized targets, not for hitting the 10 ring (though they'll do OK at that as well).

Decide what you want to do with your optic and that will held you narrow down which one is for you.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 7:19:27 PM EDT
"what size should be a good compromise"
i like 4 moa dots.
pie plates at 200yds from prone are not a problem.  
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 7:23:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2003 7:24:17 PM EDT by JTinIN]
4 MOA on either an Aimpoint or ACOG TA31 works well ....

Then switch to the Leupold scope at X10 for long distance (with a 30 cal round).

Link Posted: 12/27/2003 7:34:31 PM EDT
I have the M2 4MOA sight, and can put a 30rnd. mag. in the 10 ring with it from 75yds., but I wish they would have stayed with the 3MOA dot.

I think it is the ideal size all around.

                                  KZ
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 8:37:03 PM EDT
ta11 acog's 4moa 'donut' has a 2moa inside area.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 5:14:28 AM EDT
Since one can change the aiming point on an Eotech, had written to the company and asked if could get a 3 or 4 MOA center dot (no reply).

Appears your choice is 1 MOA dot with or with out 65 MOA outside ring.

Everyone please feel free to write ... I would like to try a large dot Eotech [;)]
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 10:20:53 AM EDT
Ideal dot size?  That would be 1moa, just like the EoTech has.  [:D]  Seriously,  I don't have any trouble acquiring the 1moa so I like the extra precision it gives.  If your eyes are going or if you just like the looks/functioning of the Aimpoint than go for the 4moa.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 7:16:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2003 7:17:57 PM EDT by JTinIN]
Originally Posted By DaPhotoGuy:
Ideal dot size?  That would be 1moa, just like the EoTech has.  [:D]  Seriously,  I don't have any trouble acquiring the 1moa so I like the extra precision it gives.  If your eyes are going or if you just like the looks/functioning of the Aimpoint than go for the 4moa.
View Quote


On a nice range facing north, then agree the 1MOA dot is fine.  However, when shooting for speed into deep shade and/or into the sun (both at the same time is real interesting [;)] at low contrast targets ... tan on a sand back ground or worst) then the extra contrast of the larger dot helps at times.

Now the issue of my vision might be a factor since old enough to have a son doing research and at times get 10% off with out being asked my age [;(]
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 12:34:26 PM EDT
Thanks for all your answers. Today I did some test just to see what would represent different dot size at 100 yards, 50 and 25. I first started with a one inche red dot (1MOA) that I glued on the target. Well, seeing that at 100 yard is not too difficult if there is a good contrast between the target and the dot. But more difficult if the target does not offer a good contrast. Just to resume all my test I should say that things become a lot easier with a dot of 3 to 4 inches at 100 yards. I also discover ( I should have seen that long before) that the front sight roughly cover 4 inches at 100 yards. Also I think for close range a bigger dot, may be around 8 moa (about 3/4 of an inche at 10 yards) should even be better. At first I tought that a 4 moa dot might be too big but now I think it is a very good comprosise.
Have a nice day,
Clovis
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 12:42:59 PM EDT
keep in mind your dot's are the absolute minimums.  a real illuminated dot has a "corona" and the size is directly proportional to the intensity relative to the ambient light.  that's a mouth full.  as you turn the intensity up it will flare and become larger but will be less well defined.  so my 4 moa dot on a dark day with a high setting may be 8moa and it will stand out like a sore thumb.   at night on high it fills half the tube and looks like a road flare.  easy just turn the level down to suit your needs.  on a bright day with a dim level of intensity it will be hard to pick out but will show up as 4-6 moa which is great for 200 yds.  
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 4:25:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2003 4:53:53 AM EDT by Yojimbo]
308Wood brings up a very intresting point.

Even though EOtech says the center dot is 1 MOA it doesn't look that small even when you have the brightness set at the dimmest settings.

In the pic below, does it look like it would take 65 of the center dots to span across from the 6 o'clock hash mark to the 12 o'clock hash mark?  

[img]http://a2.cpimg.com/image/DA/8B/20542682-930e-02000180-.jpg[/img]

It doesn't look that way to me[BD].  I do know the Eotech reticle is smaller than the Aimpoint but as far as being exactly 1 MOA, I'm not so sure.

Link Posted: 12/29/2003 6:16:11 PM EDT
Yojimbo.

your EOtech dot size is not constant.
as you move the sight away from your eys the red ring and center dot grow in size.  it's just the nature of the beast.  
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 6:57:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 308wood:
Yojimbo.

your EOtech dot size is not constant.
as you move the sight away from your eys the red ring and center dot grow in size.  it's just the nature of the beast.  
View Quote


Actually, I believe if you test this you will find out it DOES NOT grow in size.  It APPEARS larger in the window of the EoTech the farther you move it from your eye but that is only because the window is getting smaller the farther you move it away.  The actual dot and circle remain the same size.  Hold your EoTech in your hand and find something to look at that is about the same size as the circle in the EoTech.  Now, keeping the circle on the object, move the EoTech away from your eye.  You will see that the circle does not grow, but it will LOOK bigger because the window you are looking trough is now farther away.
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 7:40:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2003 4:58:31 AM EDT by Yojimbo]
Yup, what DaPhotoGuy says is true.[8D]  If the EOTech reticle really grew and shrunk like that things would be really screwed up...[BD]

No matter how you look at it, it still does not look like 65 of the center dots will fit across the large outer circle.  The center dot is smaller then 4 MOA but IMHO, it's not so small that it's hard to pick up quickly.
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