Something tells me their lenses wouldn't hold up....

Besides being a pointless test, I'm positive a Surefire would hold up fine.

I dont think lights with reflectors and a lenses would hold up well.

That is a win.  I am sold!

In head to head abuse videos like this the Surefire fails before the Elzetta. Elzetta has put extra effort into insane durability and they really are the toughest flashlights on the planet. If you're wanting a "come hell or high water" tough light Elzetta is it.

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I'd take the better designs, better features, better throw, and better track record of surefire.

If a no basis in real world abuse test is what gets you off, then good for you.

You'll need a time machine to head back to the early 2000's then.





There's a lot better stuff than surefire on the market now.



 

You guys use Cree LED's right?  



 

What brands? Not trying to call you out or anything. I'm genuinely interested. I like Surefire products, but I would like to find alternatives since they don't always offer what I want and the prices on them are getting t0o high for my tastes.

the other thing to remember, is that if the polycarb TIR optic is exposed on the end, it is way softer than glass and can scratch fairly easily.  Too many scratches and it can dull up and effect light output.  Each type has it's pros and cons.  Its just finding what will fit your needs.

Not a fair comparison.  If I'm not mistaken, you are using a polycarbonate lens and a Malkoff drop in?  You can add the same two items to a Surefire or most any 6P type/size light and it will have the same result if it is a version with a crenelated bezel.

Check out the ArmyTek Predator or the JetBeam B25SE.  No need to pay for the Surfire name anymore, these are both very well made and extremely tough lights.

Yup I own both.

I don't expect them to answer, but I think they use Malkoff-modified CREEs..... which ain't too shabby.

If they would just make these using aa batteries instead of cr123s I would be all over them I have always liked elzetta's concept but I am waiting for aa bat lights

Not going to happen. You can't pull the voltage to run and high output led from regular AA batteries. Those run at 1.5 v and you need at least 3 volts to run a good emitter. I would love to see a micro light that ran off of a single 14500 but then you would bitch about rechargeable batteries and what not.

Elzetta makes very good lights. Their modules/guts are made/designed by Gene Malkoff.

The TIR's they use are polycarbonate.

The bodies are quality, IIIA aluminum.

They are great lights with good output/run-time balance.

That said, Surefire still has a few advantages over Elzetta in some ways, just as Elzetta does over SF. For a hand-held, I think it's a toss-up. For a weapon light, I'm going to run Surefure.

-Both use quality LED setups.
-Both have great output/run-time balances vs. current draw.
-The Surefire's have a tint that I find REALLY nice
-Surefire's TIR lenses are the best there are. Period. Noone else uses CoC. They all use Polycarbonate, etc. in place of it.
-Surefire's Scout series are lighter and have integrated mounts.
-Elzetta's lenses/TIR's are interchangeable, IIRC
-Elzetta/Malkoff are like buying from a family friend more than from "a company". SF has great CS, and they do know who I am, but Elzetta and Gene Malkoff...they are home-grown first generation companies that are still somewhat "tiny", and I just...I dunno...I WANT to give them my business.

Really, though, Elzetta and Surefire both put out such a good product, that I would buy whichever one suited my needs. Handheld? I might go Elzetta. Weapon-mount? Surefire.

For a while, Surefire was good only to use as a host. Then the KX2C scout head came out, and was throwing HARD out to longer ranges for a light little 2-cell light. Now they have 1000 lumen 3-cell lights, 600 lumen 2-cell, etc. SF is currently cutting edge right there with the best of them. Elzetta, two. Both great companies and great products.

All said and done...bashing a coconut with a flashlight isn't exactly what I call "real world" or meaningful. Go to the EE here on this site and search "Scout" and you will see plenty of beat to hell scouts that are being sold after coming back from the sand box. That's plenty for me.

it already has happenedozark trail 250 and 500 lumen aa lights

yes, these are mag light size lights and not weapon lights-  but the technology exist to run 500 lumen bulbs off of aa bats it just needs to be shrunk down which will happen.   I have decided to abandon the CR123 altogether and have refitted my hd carbines with insight aa 150 lumen lights and my house has several of the ozark trail lights in both 500 &250 lumens

I will claim that within 2 years You'll be able to get a very good weapon light that runs on aa bats. why??? because the military still runs off aa bats.  

I will not purchase any more cr123 powered tech.

Emiter ratings does not equal what comes out the front.

You are right that as technology gets better you will high output AA lights BUT cr123 will still put out more light in a more compact platform.

Eta: you also have to take into account shelf life which regular AA batteries don't have.

AA batteries are at the 20 year advertised shelf-life rating for the L91 Energizer.

Bangs head on desk.

L91 is a lithium ion battery. If you design kit to run on Lion AA batteries then they might not run well/long on alkaline batteries. So in the end you are still stuck with running a specific battery type.

Anything that runs a normal AA will do fine with L91.

Well good luck leaving alkaline batteries in your weapon light for extended periods.

12_gauge
On the left is a cr123, middle is 2 AAs that give the same voltage as a CR123, and on the right is a rechargeable Lion 14500 that is the same size as a AA battery.

The cr123 and the two AAs have the same voltage (assuming they are run inline) but the cr123 can put out more lumens than the AAs in the same emitter. You can run Lion L91 AAs but the cr123 is still more compact but does the same thing.
The problem with using Lion batteries is that the light requires circuit protection to shut off of the battery voltage gets low. While an alkaline battery light dims, an Lion light shuts off. This is to keep the Lion batteries from exploding.
So you can use alkaline batteries or Lion but both presents an issue. I added a rechargeable 14500 because it is a 4.2 Volt Lion battery that is the same size as a AA but running an alkaline battery in a light meant for these is craptastic at best.

Lithium =/= Lithium Ion. L91 are primaries like alkalines but of different chemistry.

This is stupid, I've dropped all brands of lights and abused them, they hold up fine.  Nobody is going to do that to their light, it's a gimmick to try and make elzetta look like it's the best.  Like the mag torture test where they run over it with a truck.

You are nuts if you think Surefire has the best design selection of ANYTHING, with the possible exceptions of their (patented) weapon lights.

They are consistently 5ish years behind with their emitter outputs, and somewhat further behind on their light body designs themselves.

Pentagon (a company that Surefire sued out of existence) had LED weapon lights at least 3 years before Surefire did, and other light companies have better body and switch designs on handheld lights.

Literally the ONLY thing they are better at are their rifle/shotgun lights. They were still making those "classic" style pistol lights that were made for one gun only when streamlight/insight was making the M3, which was one of the first commercially successful universal pistol lights. A design which Surefire heavily borrowed from to make the x200/300/400/10000(whatever they're up to now, I can't remember).

The 6p was revolutionary when it came out, but that was a long ass time ago. Surefire has been knocking off other peopless crap for years. They make a great light, but they are no longer state of the art.

He has a point about the test method, but its not a gimmick. It shows how strong a solid acrylic lens is, and is eliminating a possible failure point of most designs out there.

I bought a powertac after I saw this video. Iv only had it for almost 2 years but no regrets so far.

i think the point that most are missing is its not Elzettas LED drop in that is holding up.  It is a Malkoff drop in that is showing its toughness.  You can install a Malkoff drop in, in most any 6P size type light and it will perform the same.  You could install the Malkoff in a crenulated Surefire 6P or even a cheap Chinese Solarforce host with one of those gnarly stainless crenulated bezels and it would have the same result.

You do make a quality "host".  There is no taking that away from you.  Anybody who knows anything about flashlights and more specifically Malkoff drop ins, knows that a Malkoff drop in does not need added heat dissipation (although it is an added benefit) and very rarely needs copper tape for better fitment.  Malkoff makes the highest quality and most durable LED drown in.  He does not over drive his LED drop in which allows them to run cooler, they have a longer
Max output compared to most LED drop ins, they are fully potted and the color will stay true longer throughout the life of the drop in compared to most.

I'm not bashing your host because it's a quality host.  I'm only commenting on the video/ comparison to other lights.  The comparison video means nothing when there will be the same outcome if the Malkoff drop in was used in numerous other hosts.  I would imagine you could have broken through a cinder block with only missing anno and some bezel damage being the outcome.

As far as I know, you are the second person/ company to make a host specifically for the Malkoff drop in and the first was Gene himself (Malkoff) so I commend you on that.  

Madcap for the win.  Surefire built some good stuff, and I have a couple still.  I think they are more like Eagle Ind. in that they had giant Mil. contracts, and lived some off of their reputations.  Meanwhile, back at the ranch, there were guys working hard to build better....and they did.

I personally have not found anything in the same league as CURRENT Surefire lights, and have abandoned for the most part the P60 module game since the OEM SF's are so awesome. I was buying Malkoff modules before people on this board even heard of them, when they were still hand engraved by Gene himself. I have NOTHING! but awesome to say about Gene and Elzetta and the others, but SF's lights are great. The P60 still allows interchangeability, and is nice, but the TIR stuff and the Fury series...I have not found anything better in that application.

The P60 module is more than just "rested" in other hosts. It is pinned between the bezel and the body. 2 opposing points of contact. Now, the Elzetta bezel is likely (almost assuredly) stronger than other bezels used on P60 hosts, but it's not like the module is "knocking around" inside the other P60 hosts. For impact toughness, it's bezel beefiness that is your advantage. Now, for output, heat management, and thermal conductivity, I don't think a better P60 host exists than the Elzetta.

I've owned 2 surefires outside of the one I use on my pistol. I've broken both of the surefires aside from my weapon light. I've owned 2 elzettas including the ZFL M60 and the Charlie. I have not broken the elzettas and both still work despite being dropped, smashed, thrown, chucked, and used as hammers.

If anyone sees any deals on elzettas please post them

+1 I'd love to get an Alpha model.

 

ElZetta is hands down the very best light that I have ever used. I use to be a Surefire Fanboy but ElZetta has taken that away. I have a 2 cell and a 3 cell and they are tough as nails.

That  helicopter drop on to the front bezel is quite impressive.  I have owned about a dozen Surefires.  Fine lights no question, but the glass broke on my last two carry Surefires (E1Bs) from relatively short drops onto concrete.  Now the glass never broke on the first drop, but I use them all day everyday and they get dropped a lot.  After several hits on the same spot they broke.  That video, along with Dave's (?) excellent infomercials on the Elzetta blog got me to switch to Elzetta.

I would like see that Helo drop with the light hitting on the bottom edge of a clicky tail cap against concrete.  If it could survive that I would be completely impressed.