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Posted: 12/24/2002 11:19:10 AM EST
So I want an AR-15 and have for a long time but I now live in CA. Can anyone give me some info on these Cali. legal lowers I have been reading about on this site.

Are they legal or is it a gray area?
If I move or the ban is lifted do I only need a new lower to convert it back?

Any help or other info/ideas would be appreciaated.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 11:33:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/2/2003 11:58:43 AM EST by notack]
right now it's the [url=GoGoGadgets.net]FAB 10[/url] , and [url=dalphon.com]Dalphon[/url] is advertising a new lower for release after the first of the year. A couple other brands are "rumored" to be releasing new lowers also.[url=www.dpmsinc.com]DPMS[/url] has a new "California single shot" lower that has no magwell at all. ed;- welcome fellow Kaliban. [8D] ed2; Dalphon [url=ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=146575]Update[/url]
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 11:36:22 AM EST
Leave Kalifornistan like a free thinking person would. Jon
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 11:40:55 AM EST
Buy an M1A, M1, M1Carbine, SKS, & Mini-14 while you prepare to flee the state.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 11:52:01 AM EST
[b]"I want an AR!! BUT I live in California"[/b] Move, or do without.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 12:18:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/24/2002 12:29:14 PM EST by drfcolt]
Here's a nice Kali-legal set-up that may interest you: [url]www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=149613[/url] Maybe some of you should realize that some people can't just "move". They have a job, a family to support, and responsabilities in life. They're not at home living off of mom and dad or working for a fast-food chain that has grease-holes in every state in the Union. If you can't give a contructive/non-smart-ass reply to a guy who has a legitamite question then move on.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 1:21:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/24/2002 1:22:53 PM EST by AR15fan]
Originally Posted By CitizenSoldier: Leave Kalifornistan like a free thinking person would. Jon
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"Free thinking?" Cowardly & quitter are more appropriate to describe someone who flees his home when things look bad. Buy your logic we all should have moved out of the US when clinton got elected and passed the AW ban.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 5:54:51 PM EST
I like a lot of what California consists of, but I hate what it stands for (politically) at the same time. If I lived there, I'd have left a long time ago. LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT! It has nothing to do with fleeing, it's living we're talking about. Drive down my street in Billings, or most any other town, and you'll see gun-racks in the back windows of F150's. Within 10 minutes of my house, I can take you to 3 gun-shops with AR15's, M1A's, and AK's on display. Lots of them. I can strap on a pistol belt, and walk to the park if I want to, with no permit needed, as long as it's not concealed. Here, we believe that an armed society is a polite society, and we have very little violent crime. The anti-gunners don't talk about us, statistically, because we disprove their theory. Still want to stay in California?
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 6:05:09 PM EST
The problem with that logic is that there are no other viable alternatives to the US for gun freedom. This isn't to say that guns are my single issue, though.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 6:19:36 PM EST
When I lived in the Los Angels area I had black guns, but I wanted the REAL LEGIT $200 EXTRA FUN OPTION - and I wanted cans! Now I live in Colorado, and I have them. It really does come down to priorities, and it really is simple, MOVE.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 8:33:50 PM EST
I feel your pain about Kali. Anyhow, I have a Fab-10 lower pinned to a J&T 16" Bull Barrel kit. I topped it of with an ATN 5x33L scope. I love it, and it shoots less than an inch with 77gr HP Hornady Match Moly reloads. The Fab-10 aint that bad to operate, and it works just fine as a range gun/plinker. I have a copy of the DOJ letter stating its legality, and that is good enough for me. Get a fab10, and enjoy shooting. Merry Xmas all Austin
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 9:54:20 PM EST
I agree with everyone else. Just leave Kalifornia. Most of the states bordering actually govern to a certain degree by our constitution. Move to one of them.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 11:35:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/24/2002 11:37:01 PM EST by Master_Blaster]
Originally Posted By montanaman: I like a lot of what California consists of, but I hate what it stands for (politically) at the same time. If I lived there, I'd have left a long time ago. LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT! It has nothing to do with fleeing, it's living we're talking about. Drive down my street in Billings, or most any other town, and you'll see gun-racks in the back windows of F150's. Within 10 minutes of my house, I can take you to 3 gun-shops with AR15's, M1A's, and AK's on display. Lots of them. I can strap on a pistol belt, and walk to the park if I want to, with no permit needed, as long as it's not concealed. Here, we believe that an armed society is a polite society, and we have very little violent crime. The anti-gunners don't talk about us, statistically, because we disprove their theory. Still want to stay in California?
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Ahhh....Montana - home of pro-gun democrats. My wife hails from Belt, & my grandparents lived in Fishtail for most of their retirement, until recently. Then they just moved to Billings. I just wish the Montana economy was stronger, though I've heard Whitefish & Bozeman are making progress. Better keep one eye on the hollywood infection that seems to be spreading over there. First they move in, then they want to get on the city/county council. Then they want to make laws. I'm watching former Kalifornya residents move here & try to re-make WA into their former state, & I have to question why they bothered moving. Go back to [i]utopia[/i], a$$wipe! [whacko]
Link Posted: 12/25/2002 3:00:21 AM EST
Can't speak to the legal AR question, but stay in Calif and fight like he** to change things. Moving is not only difficult for many people it would also be one less voice in opposition.
Link Posted: 12/25/2002 7:38:09 AM EST
The one picture I saw of the FAB-10 had a collapsible stock and a Pre-ban upper, so your saying because it is a fixed box mag (10 rounds to boot) that it does not fall under the assault weapons ban. With all those evil features it is no suitable for sporting purpose. That is extreme, what a crazy state. I say like in :Monty Python movie, run away run away. (Love the Kali cars too with the not to exceed 100 mph computer chips.)
Link Posted: 12/25/2002 7:39:00 AM EST
Master_Blaster - I know your wifes town of Belt very well. I stop in there at the Brew Pub and pick up growlers full of 'White Beltian Ale' for a friend of mine and haul them back to Billings for him. I've spent time in the mountains around Fishtail too, hunting Deer, and other furry woodland animals. The economy here is still in the toilet, because it's been hijacked by the environmentalists. Our business here has always been timber, mining, agriculture, tourism, and transportation. Well, they've managed to close the mines, stop the logging, and most of the railroad careers left when our tax base shifted onto them. The Californians are slowly invading... setting up planning committees, trying to get their piece of 'The Last Best Place', so they can ruin it by making the little towns 'mini-Californias'. But, we still have our guns.
Link Posted: 12/25/2002 3:43:18 PM EST
Now we all know Kalifornistan is lost. Jon
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By CitizenSoldier: Leave Kalifornistan like a free thinking person would. Jon
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"Free thinking?" Cowardly & quitter are more appropriate to describe someone who flees his home when things look bad. Buy your logic we all should have moved out of the US when clinton got elected and passed the AW ban.
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Link Posted: 12/25/2002 4:52:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By montanaman: Master_Blaster - I know your wifes town of Belt very well. I stop in there at the Brew Pub and pick up growlers full of 'White Beltian Ale' for a friend of mine and haul them back to Billings for him. I've spent time in the mountains around Fishtail too, hunting Deer, and other furry woodland animals.
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That pub apparently started biz sometime after she moved to Seattle, but she's heard it's a great place. I've yet to even see the town, & she hasn't been there in a while, though she still keeps in touch w/ some of the friends/neighbors. Fishtail is the kind of place you can get lost in. My grandpop used to hunt around there practically every season.
....The economy here is still in the toilet, because it's been hijacked by the environmentalists. Our business here has always been timber, mining, agriculture, tourism, and transportation. Well, they've managed to close the mines, stop the logging, and most of the railroad careers left when our tax base shifted onto them.
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Mining is pretty much a dead option, IMO. I've been through Butte, & it looked like a sh!thole from all the years of mining there. I've also read of some pretty nasty long-term problems attributed to vermiculite mining. Timber is probably a better biz. Development is actually a real killer. I'm watching some prime wilderness in WA getting cleared to make way for yup housing. WA state has only a glimmer of a chance at keeping land on the west side from being consumed by developers, but town & city councils always seem to bow to easy $$$. I've heard that Bozeman has some measure of tech businesses, & that property values have skyrocketed there due to all the hollywoodites moving in, among other things. Other than that, seems like skiing, hunting, camping, & other tourism forms are the main $$$-makers up there.
The Californians are slowly invading... setting up planning committees, trying to get their piece of 'The Last Best Place', so they can ruin it by making the little towns 'mini-Californias'. But, we still have our guns.
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Beware - slowly they move, but swiftly they take! NOW is probably a good time to establish a state law to affirm individual firearm rights, if one isn't already in place.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 10:35:37 AM EST
Go to a Reno or Vegas or Phoenix gun show and just buy one private party. Who do you think buys most of the private party guns at our shows. "CALIFORNIANS"
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 2:48:53 PM EST
Dammit..... I feel for all you cali boys....sorry It makes me sick whenever i read threads like this. Some day maybe you all will be free.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 4:03:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By 302HO: Dammit..... I feel for all you cali boys....sorry It makes me sick whenever i read threads like this. Some day maybe you all will be free.
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Hopefully Soon[V]..And are State is bankrupt[V] Dumbass Democrats[rail]
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 5:34:53 PM EST
If I lived in Kalifornicate and owned an AR15 and registered it when the ban came into being, can I resell it to another Kali native?
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 6:57:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By CMSgt: If I lived in Kalifornicate and owned an AR15 and registered it when the ban came into being, can I resell it to another Kali native?
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I seem to recalll that a registered preban can never be transferred. I don't think you can even will it to someone when you die. Maybe it's just a myth, but i think I read it on the boards.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 8:04:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/29/2002 8:06:07 PM EST by wsmc667]
in the people's republik of kalifornia, no magazine of capacity greater than 10 rounds or assault weapon (registered or not) may ever be transferred to anyone else in the prk. these items may only leave the state or destroyed. they cannot be handed down, inherited, sold, given, or anything - except leave the state. it is very draconian and it would be real nice if the federal ban would sunset and then the dumbasses running (ruining?) my state wake up and prosecute criminals rather than punish gun owners. yes, i'm damn lucky to buy the last legal AR lower in my county. just recently, i [bought] a 16" bushy flat top on it. :) chris in sandy eggo [edited to fix typo in braces]
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 5:03:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By knightone:
Originally Posted By CMSgt: If I lived in Kalifornicate and owned an AR15 and registered it when the ban came into being, can I resell it to another Kali native?
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I seem to recalll that a registered preban can never be transferred. I don't think you can even will it to someone when you die. Maybe it's just a myth, but i think I read it on the boards.
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You are correct knightone it can never be transfered to a Kali native,it will die with them and someone will have to get it destroyed[V] There is no loop holes or way around it,no Civilian in Kali can have a real Ar-15 and be legal,Besides via Fab-10(neutered AR)Soo Sad [>Q] I am Currently still buiding my First Ar with a fab-10 actually i will be building quite a couple be4 they ban that also,I live in the San Dimas area Does anyone know about any legalities owning a Ar (like shooting on state land)with a fab-10 in that area?Because in the DoJ letter that comes with the Fab-10 says to check your city and county due to the fact that others might find it illegal?Plz clarify if can -Thnx
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 9:05:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By H3At: I am Currently still buiding my First Ar with a fab-10 actually i will be building quite a couple be4 they ban that also,I live in the San Dimas area Does anyone know about any legalities owning a Ar (like shooting on state land)with a fab-10 in that area?Because in the DoJ letter that comes with the Fab-10 says to check your city and county due to the fact that others might find it illegal?Plz clarify if can -Thnx
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The Socialist AG hates guns. He put that sentence in the "acceptance" letter because he couldn't say no to the FAB design, and hoped it would discourage some potential owners[:(!]. Because it was engineered around the specific requirements of the law, the FAB has been approved by the DOJ.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 9:12:12 AM EST
what part of kali are you in?
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 11:41:08 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 12:39:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/30/2002 12:43:55 PM EST by LARRYG36]
way out, on the weekend of the 18th, drive out here to Vegas, for the gun show, i have no doubt you'll be going home with a AR or a AR RECEIVER, might as well pick up some mags and some parts, i just rotated my mags, so i have 10 V.G. GI 30rds on my table, Stop on by [IMG]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/area51/gunshow2.JPG[/IMG]
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 12:53:27 PM EST
I was lucky enough to turn 18 just before the ban. I picked up Bushy and DPMS complete lowers. Completed the Bushy and stashed the DPMS for later. Having seen the FAB-10 up close, I REALLY can't stand it. Having to open the rifle up to load it is a big turn off IMHO. I would rather go w/ something non-neutered like a M1A (a bit expensive), SKS, or even a CMP Garand (a great value). When you figure the Garand gives 8 rounds of .30-06 vs. just 10 of 5.56 in the Fab-10, i think the advantages are clear. BTW, as a Cali guy, check out www.Calguns.net. Some real good people there.
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 1:23:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/31/2002 1:24:08 AM EST by H3At]
Originally Posted By Troy:
Originally Posted By H3At: I live in the San Dimas area
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"We are: [size=4]Wyld Stallyns!"[/size=4] -Troy P.S., Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
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HAHHAHAHAH Troy u almost made me fall off my chair! Best movie by farrr[:D]
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 4:20:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By drfcolt: Here's a nice Kali-legal set-up that may interest you: [url]www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=149613[/url]
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is this "AR" really Kalifornistan Legal? i guess the absence of a detachable magazine precludes the gun from being an "assault weapon" and allows for a collapsible stock, flash hider and an evil bayonet lug? mind blowing - isn't it? - how really idiotic and f@#$'d up gun laws are. especially in the PRK!
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 8:32:52 AM EST
As of right now. The choice is still just the FAB 10 unless someone can figure a way to buy a Dalphon CA lower. I have left a phone message with Dalphon and emailed them. They are not replying to my phone calls and emails. There is no way to buy this lower. Why are they advertising in Shotgun News but don't have it for sale on their website? There is no pics or info on their website on their CA legal lower.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 1:06:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2003 1:08:53 PM EST by LARRYG36]
Just go to the Reno gun show, the one at the HILTON. Dalphon is always set up there. And he does bring alot of lowers to sale.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 4:18:42 PM EST
So this might be a stupid question but I bought my AR while in Minnesota about 10 years ago and now live in Kansas. If I move to California (SD) and become a legal resident, will I be able to take my AR15 with me?
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 4:21:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By kensteele: So this might be a stupid question but I bought my AR while in Minnesota about 10 years ago and now live in Kansas. If I move to California (SD) and become a legal resident, will I be able to take my AR15 with me?
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no.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 7:02:04 PM EST
LARRYG36, Do you know if Dalphon is selling their CA legal lower in Reno? I wonder if it is even available for purchase yet.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 7:56:56 PM EST
RIDDLE: If a man is born in California, grows up in California, then goes across state lines to buy an AR-15 with the intention of bringing it back into the state... ...will California still be $34 Billion in debt?
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 8:38:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By Morpheus: RIDDLE: If a man is born in California, grows up in California, then goes across state lines to buy an AR-15 with the intention of bringing it back into the state... ...will California still be $34 Billion in debt?
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Of course!! We still have Gray Davis!! He could do what Arizona does...You can buy a Tax stamp for Class 3 weapons (in our case AR's) and that would definately bring in some revenue!! If he killed off the AR ban I'm sure that there would be a huge surge in the sales of AR parts bringing hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars back into the economy....Every buck counts right?
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 8:42:40 PM EST
I've been talking with a local machinist and he says that he machines 80% lowers to 100% for people that do the paper work here in Cali? He said that he doesnt know all of the forms that need to be done but he said it can be done in Cali. Is he just smokin crack or getting forged documents or talkin out of his butt or what?
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 9:32:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2003 10:22:36 PM EST by LARRYG36]
GIVE ME A FU*KING BRAKE. Our guns show are great here because Kalifornia is so fu*ked up. Who do you think i sell most of my mags too, and auto parts too. And that dude thats usually set up next to me with a table full of guns and i sign that says "private party", who do you think he sells his guns to. CALS. Hell, some times half the shooters at the monthly DESERT BUFFET MG SHOOT here in Vegas are CALS. At the last show he sold 3 lowers and 2 complete AR's and 1 FN, AND THEY SURE AS HELL DIDNT GO TO LOCALS, no local will pay $500 for a new BM lower, or $2200 for that pre-ban Colt AR. SO GIVE ME A BRAKE!!!!COME OVER AND GET ONE, At this point it realy doesnt matter what type of gun it is, with DAVIS's reelction and that NAZI LOCKLEAR running around thinking that they have a MANDATE from the people to protect them from the EVIL BLACK GUNS with those HI-CAP MAGS, I'M SORRY TO SAY ARE FU*KED!!!! And by the way we closed our shop of 6yrs up in Sacramento in late 99 and got the hell out, Heres some of my toys, old pic, but i love it. [img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/area51/Guns.jpg[/img] [50]
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 10:03:58 PM EST
[:\]
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 10:34:11 PM EST
Larry----How do out of state people buy lowers at the gun show? I heard that there have been alot of stings going on at gunshows too.
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 4:55:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/2/2003 6:32:31 AM EST by LARRYG36]
You get them from guys walking the show, or from the guys set up selling private party(cash and carry) It really wasn't that long ago that you could do the same thing in Cal. cash and carry, no papers, private party. FU*K !!! That used to piss me off being set up next to them, I love it now because most of the time ,their customs come to me for parts and mags. "stings" only apply to FFL holders, we aren't talking about buying firearms from dealer. I don't know what planet you're from,BUT((( IT IS TOTALLY ILLEGAL FOR A FFL HOLDER TO SELL TO A OUT-OF-STATER WITH OUT TRANSFERRING SAID WEAPON TO A DEALER IN THE CUSTOMERS STATE ))) BUT privet party is "TOTALLY" different. They can legally sell to you because no paper is required, SO THEY DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU ARE FROM, ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS HOW GREEN YOUR MONEY IS. No big deal.SIMPLE. (((The))) problem is the CALIF. buyer, he's bring back into CALIF. a firearm, that's in the AW category most likely, YOU WILL BE A VERY BAD BOY IN DAVIS and LOCKLEARER'S EYES,((ILLEGAL AS HELL)) Drive carefully home, LOL. The only thing that can happen to the seller is if he or she sells to many firearms a year, ATF will tell them to QUIT or GET A FFL. In support of my fellow shooters from my ""former"" home state, at next weeks DESERT BUFFET MG SHOOT, THE FIRST MAG OUT OF MY M4A1, WITH A 96D ON IT WILL A 30rd BURST. [heavy] Got to keep it AR related.
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 6:33:08 AM EST
so if i move to prk and bring along my trusty rr and a few hicaps where do i shoot it? im being offered a job at twice what i make now in l.a. and i shudder at the thought of my choices.
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 6:37:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/2/2003 6:54:34 AM EST by LARRYG36]
Just got 2 emails on info about the DESERT BUFFET MG SHOOT in Sloan (Vegas), HERES THE INFO POST: [url]http://www.assaultweb.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000624[/url] [url]http://www.assaultweb.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000617[/url] [heavy]
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 6:46:27 AM EST
2gunmenber, NO YOU CANT, BRING THEM TO CALIF.((ILLEGAL)) SIMPLE.[>Q]
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 9:40:10 AM EST
I don't know about NV but in AZ it's easy to get a state ID card if you know somebody there and can use their address. It's as good as a drivers license for ID purposes and you can buy anything you want to. [i]disclaimer: I am NOT promoting breaking any laws. This is for information purposes only... blah blah blah.[/i] [:D]
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 9:53:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By montanaman: I like a lot of what California consists of, but I hate what it stands for (politically) at the same time. If I lived there, I'd have left a long time ago. LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT! It has nothing to do with fleeing, it's living we're talking about. Drive down my street in Billings, or most any other town, and you'll see gun-racks in the back windows of F150's. Within 10 minutes of my house, I can take you to 3 gun-shops with AR15's, M1A's, and AK's on display. Lots of them. I can strap on a pistol belt, and walk to the park if I want to, with no permit needed, as long as it's not concealed. Here, we believe that an armed society is a polite society, and we have very little violent crime. The anti-gunners don't talk about us, statistically, because we disprove their theory. Still want to stay in California?
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Yup, I lived in DC for 30+ years, guns are a MAJOR No No, there and the crime rate is thru the roof!!!! There was a murder EVERY singe day on the local news, I mean EVERY DAY! I can recall some mornings watching the news and there were 4-5 shooting w/ in the city, all in differant places, all in the same night. I now live in VT, anyone can CCW, and there seems to be ALOT less violence here...Go figure!
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 5:30:33 AM EST
It's ironic but I never owned any firearms until a buddy of mine reminded me that California was going to ban assault weapons in six months (i.e. 1/1/2000). That's when I went out and bought 2 ARs and 2 AKs. It was enough knowing that I COULD buy them, but suddenly facing the prospect of losing that choice was enough motivation. Hell I'm not even a republican but I'll keep voting straight ticket until the balance of power stabilizes. Growing older (just turned 29) I am finding that my personal liberty is becoming more and more important to me. I'm not hurting anybody so I'll be damned if some pompous, self righteous goons think they know what is best for me. Some of you may choose to leave the state but I choose to stay and fight.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 6:06:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By notack: right now it's the [url=GoGoGadgets.net]FAB 10[/url] , and [url=dalphon.com]Dalphon[/url] is advertising a new lower for release after the first of the year. A couple other brands are "rumored" to be releasing new lowers also.[url=www.dpmsinc.com]DPMS[/url] has a new "California single shot" lower that has no magwell at all. ed;- welcome fellow Kaliban. [8D] ed2; Dalphon [url=ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=146575]Update[/url]
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I talked with someone from the DOJ yesterday and he said that the DPMS lower is NOT Kalifornia legal. The only reason this is, is because they never sent a prototype in to get it approved. So its a legal/banned lower. If anybody's in the Bay Area and wants to try a Fab 10 in person before they waste their money on it just let me know....I've got one.
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