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Posted: 7/15/2008 2:48:56 PM EDT
I bought a CMMG 14.5" upper with perm Phantom, 1/7 twist bbl new from the EE a few months back. I've tried to site it in twice, with no success. I have no BUIS and was using an Aimpoint CompML3 in a LaRue mount. At 25 yards I can get a decent 5 shot group, all in the bullseye. Then, I set the target out to 100 yards, and couldn't get anything resembling a group. I wasn't even on paper. Basically minute of refrigerator. I was shooting off the bench. 55 grain Wolf was the ammo I first used, so I thought it might be an ammo problem. The next time I came back to the range I brought 62 grain, LC XM855. Same thing. 25 yards, good. 100 yards, forget it.

Do I shoot that bad? Should I try with some BUIS? Could it be the Aimpoint?
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 2:51:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 2:53:02 PM EDT by ARmory04]
Interested in the answer...........


My first thought was, "oh, man, he really must not be able to shoot." And then on the other hand, it could very well be something amiss with the barrel. Maybe the throat.

Hmmmm..............


And dude.... barely ovefr a year here, and over 12,000 posts... Come on....
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 2:52:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 2:54:13 PM EDT by Cold]
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 2:54:39 PM EDT
could you be overshooting the target at 100? A "perfect" 25yd zero will have you shooting high at 100.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 3:06:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 70satvert:
I bought a CMMG 14.5" upper


Right there is the problem.

Remember the midlength group buy barrels from CMMG and all of their accuracy problems.

CMMG barrels have been iffy since they switched from DPMS to their own supplier.

Just ask Bigbore.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 3:07:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 3:08:20 PM EDT by 70satvert]

Originally Posted By southpaw67:
could you be overshooting the target at 100? A "perfect" 25yd zero will have you shooting high at 100.


It shoots a few feet from zero in all directions. Not anything that could remotely be considered a group. I wish I had pictures of the target.

Next time at the range I'll take some other ammo. I've got some Black Hills, Winchester, and Hornady stuff. I just didn't want to burn it all up if it's not doing any good.


Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:

Originally Posted By 70satvert:
I bought a CMMG 14.5" upper


Right there is the problem.

Remember the midlength group buy barrels from CMMG and all of their accuracy problems.

CMMG barrels have been iffy since they switched from DPMS to their own supplier.

Just ask Bigbore.


No, I missed that fiasco. Lovely. I'm really hoping the problem isn't the barrel, because I am familiar with CMMGs poor customer service. (Or so I've read on this forum.)
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 3:18:05 PM EDT
The only time I had trouble getting one sighted in I discovered the barrel was loose.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 3:21:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gary-G23:
The only time I had trouble getting one sighted in I discovered the barrel was loose.


I don't think my barrel is loose, at least I can't get any play out of it. I don't have a bbl wrench to check for sure though. I do have a slight amount of play in my pinned Phantom though.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 3:22:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 3:38:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By 70satvert:
I do have a slight amount of play in my pinned Phantom though.


that would be a problem
\

Can this have a significant effect on accuracy?
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 3:48:16 PM EDT
Did the original owner have the same issues?
Maybe try to completely clean and de-copper the bore?
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 3:53:12 PM EDT
Ok, before everyone starts bashing CMMG let's ask a few questions.

1st of all. The Flash suppressor being loose could be a problem. I can't see it, so I can't tell how much, and what kind of play is there.

Has anyone else shot your AR for groups?

Have you put this optic on another AR to see if it's the optic is the problem?

Did you purchase this upper new? If it's used, you may want to contact the individual who sold it to you.

What kind of rest are you shooting from?

We need more information, and so do you. The guys that come here and start bashing CMMG may of had a bad experience, but they can't base a decision with the information you've supplied. I've had good results with CMMG. The products I've gotten from them are of very good quality.

Good Luck,
DBAR


Link Posted: 7/15/2008 4:00:02 PM EDT
Did you try their industry section or contacting them directly?
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 4:04:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ikickhippies:
Did you try their industry section or contacting them directly?


you mean the industry section that THEY moderate?
or contacting them directly on phones THEY don't answer?



Link Posted: 7/15/2008 4:16:41 PM EDT
As much as I hate to say this, I have two CMMG 14.5" uppers that have no accuracy problems. they have performed very well. I bought them both used (slightly).
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 4:26:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DBAR:
Ok, before everyone starts bashing CMMG let's ask a few questions.

1st of all. The Flash suppressor being loose could be a problem. I can't see it, so I can't tell how much, and what kind of play is there. It's hardly noticeable. It's not flopping around on the end or anything. But I can feel it move just a bit when I try to twist it with my hand. It's not a significant amount of movement by any means, but it's still there. I don't know if it's a big deal or not, but at the least, I would like it fixed. I don't want to be accused of possessing an illegal SBR.

Has anyone else shot your AR for groups? Yes, with the same results.

Have you put this optic on another AR to see if it's the optic is the problem? No, but this is something I want to do.

Did you purchase this upper new? If it's used, you may want to contact the individual who sold it to you. Yes, I purchased it new in the EE from someone with very high feedback, who often sells new CMMG uppers. I have also IM'ed him asking his opinion on this.

What kind of rest are you shooting from? Sitting at the bench, with the rifle resting over a range bag.

We need more information, and so do you. The guys that come here and start bashing CMMG may of had a bad experience, but they can't base a decision with the information you've supplied. I've had good results with CMMG. The products I've gotten from them are of very good quality.
I agree, I need to do some more troubleshooting, but my opportunities are a bit limited right now.
Good Luck,
DBAR





Originally Posted By ikickhippies:
Did you try their industry section or contacting them directly?

That's a joke right? I plan on calling them tomorrow.

Link Posted: 7/15/2008 4:44:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 4:46:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 4:47:37 PM EDT by Cold]
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 4:47:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 4:54:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 4:56:08 PM EDT by ikickhippies]

Originally Posted By 70satvert:


Originally Posted By ikickhippies:
Did you try their industry section or contacting them directly?

That's a joke right? I plan on calling them tomorrow.



No it's not a joke. If I have a problem I try and go right to the person or company that I have a problem with BEFORE I bog down the technical section with issues. Not only that but you should have let CMMG known of the issues before you aired it here. I've shot their uppers and they are GTG but if I had a problem I would contact them FIRST- not after badmouthing their hardware on the internet. It's bad form to pull that crap.

I guess if you shot as much as you post you'd have learned how to tighten a flash hider before bitching about your crappy groups. Righty Tighty, or turn it this way while looking at the muzzle [the end the bullets come out],------------->

To Contact CMMG: 660-248-2293

Oh, and here is the industry section I mentioned before: CMMG

Good luck anyway.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 4:58:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CMMG:

Originally Posted By 70satvert:
I bought a CMMG 14.5" upper with perm Phantom, 1/7 twist bbl new from the EE a few months back. I've tried to site it in twice, with no success. I have no BUIS and was using an Aimpoint CompML3 in a LaRue mount. At 25 yards I can get a decent 5 shot group, all in the bullseye. Then, I set the target out to 100 yards, and couldn't get anything resembling a group. I wasn't even on paper. Basically minute of refrigerator. I was shooting off the bench. 55 grain Wolf was the ammo I first used, so I thought it might be an ammo problem. The next time I came back to the range I brought 62 grain, LC XM855. Same thing. 25 yards, good. 100 yards, forget it.

Do I shoot that bad? Should I try with some BUIS? Could it be the Aimpoint?


I would try other ammo for sure. Are the mounting screws tight? Also, what type of target are you shooting and what size dot does the Aimpoint have.

If you are having any issues that you think are component related (including a loose flash hider), please contact us; our products are warrantied.

As for the Giffman barrels, we have said it before and will state it again. These are fully warrantied and to day, still only 2 barrels have been returned for servicing. They both were having extraction problems. Both were serviced under warranty are returned to their owners.

Jeff


Glad to see CMMG offer some advice/insight. Now go crack the whip on your barrel supplier (eagerly waiting his on 10.3 M2 upper) Just kidding!
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 4:58:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 5:11:28 PM EDT by 70satvert]

Originally Posted By CMMG:

Originally Posted By 70satvert:
I bought a CMMG 14.5" upper with perm Phantom, 1/7 twist bbl new from the EE a few months back. I've tried to site it in twice, with no success. I have no BUIS and was using an Aimpoint CompML3 in a LaRue mount. At 25 yards I can get a decent 5 shot group, all in the bullseye. Then, I set the target out to 100 yards, and couldn't get anything resembling a group. I wasn't even on paper. Basically minute of refrigerator. I was shooting off the bench. 55 grain Wolf was the ammo I first used, so I thought it might be an ammo problem. The next time I came back to the range I brought 62 grain, LC XM855. Same thing. 25 yards, good. 100 yards, forget it.

Do I shoot that bad? Should I try with some BUIS? Could it be the Aimpoint?


I would try other ammo for sure. Are the mounting screws tight? Also, what type of target are you shooting and what size dot does the Aimpoint have.

If you are having any issues that you think are component related (including a loose flash hider), please contact us; our products are warrantied.

As for the Giffman barrels, we have said it before and will state it again. These are fully warrantied and to day, still only 2 barrels have been returned for servicing. They both were having extraction problems. Both were serviced under warranty are returned to their owners.

Jeff


Thank you for your input, it's been a while since I've seen you guys posting in your Industry Forum, that's why I didn't post in there. The Aimpoint has a 2 MOA dot. The screws in the LaRue mount were tightened after I applied the Loc-Tite. I was shooting at a silhouette shaped target. Next time I can get to the range I will try some other ammo I have, and also try to round up some BUIS as well as try my Aimpoint on another AR. I would like to get the Phantom fixed, as I don't want illegal SBR issues. I will call in the morning. Thanks again, Jeff.


Originally Posted By ikickhippies:

Originally Posted By 70satvert:


Originally Posted By ikickhippies:
Did you try their industry section or contacting them directly?

That's a joke right? I plan on calling them tomorrow.



No it's not a joke. If I have a problem I try and go right to the person or company that I have a problem with BEFORE I bog down the technical section with issues. Not only that but you should have let CMMG known of the issues before you aired it here. I've shot their uppers and they are GTG but if I had a problem I would contact them FIRST- not after badmouthing their hardware on the internet. It's bad form to pull that crap.

I guess if you shot as much as you post you'd have learned how to tighten a flash hider before bitching about your crappy groups. Righty Tighty, or turn it this way while looking at the muzzle [the end the bullets come out],------------->

To Contact CMMG: 660-248-2293

Oh, and here is the industry section I mentioned before: CMMG

Good luck anyway.


I did not come here to badmouth CMMG. I have not posted any insults to CMMG or their products. I am simply asking about the possibility of there being an issue with an upper receiver. I posted this thread with hopes that people with more experience than I could help with the problem. I didn't post in CMMGs industry forum because of the lack of responses from them there lately. I understand that is probably due to them being extremely busy lately. Thanks for insulting my intelligence though. I really appreciate that. I shouldn't have to tighten a PERMANENTLY ATTACHED FLASH HIDER. And I assure you, I don't get as many opportunities to go the range as I would like.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 5:27:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 5:30:08 PM EDT by scavenger16]
i just got a 16" CMMG upper from Aim yesterday and sighted it in today with a cheap chinese scope and it took only 9 rounds to get it sited in and now I can put 3 rounds into a dixie cup time after time and that is using 55gr wolf at 100 yrds. This was done with the M4 carbine type, I Am quite impressed with CMMG the only complaint was their upper didn't quite match my Spike lower color wise. I buy Utg scopes handguards etc so I can buy more ammo because I am a ammo whore.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 4:11:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scavenger16:
i just got a 16" CMMG upper from Aim yesterday and sighted it in today with a cheap chinese scope and it took only 9 rounds to get it sited in and now I can put 3 rounds into a dixie cup time after time and that is using 55gr wolf at 100 yrds. This was done with the M4 carbine type, I Am quite impressed with CMMG the only complaint was their upper didn't quite match my Spike lower color wise. I buy Utg scopes handguards etc so I can buy more ammo because I am a ammo whore.


What power scope?
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