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Posted: 9/13/2005 5:04:02 PM EDT
Hi Guys,

I, like much of Generation X, grew up without any male role models in my life. No one ever took me hunting or fishing or shooting. Long story short, I now find myself to be a 30 year old, fat, typical American slob who has never fired a weapon and has no idea how to take care of himself.

However, I have every intention of changing that. My wife and I have placed our city house on the market, we have a wooded homestead picked out, and we will soon be completely overhauling our lives in order to learn self-sufficiency and a simpler lifestyle. I plan on teaching myself all those things my father should have taught me long ago, but as I still have no male roll models in my life in which I could turn to for advice, I have opted to ask you guys for it, at least as it pertains to guns.

I have budgeted about $1,000 to buy a gun or guns as soon as my house closes. My needs for a weapon are both for protecting my family and property, and for hunting. I research has led me to the A-15. From what I have read, this seems to be a popular weapon for defense, but I’m not sure how it would be for hunting. Any advice on this would be appreciated.

We will most likely end up with about 20 wooded acres, and this is primarily were I will end up hunting. I don’t imagine I will often find myself in the woods stalking deer, but if I see them on the property I will shoot them for food. I feed my dogs a “Raw” diet, so any type of meat is always much needed.

I guess what I’m asking is if an A-15 fits my situation, or if I should look into other types of guns. I really like the A-15 for the “what If” factor. I’d really like to be prepared for whatever comes, and think it might be a good idea to buy one of these before there is a ban of some sort. I should probably mention, I already own 2 handguns and an inexpensive shotgun for home protection, though I have never fired any of them (yeah, I know, I know).

I’ve always been the type of person that learns best by jumping right in there and getting my hands dirty. This method of teaching myself has worked very well over the years. So I wanted to just start out with the best weapons I could afford. Any and all advice you guys could give me on my situation would be much appreciated. Thanks a lot.

LB
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:10:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 5:10:46 PM EDT by CRC]
Since you own a shotgun, you can use it to hunt deer.

An AR-15 would be a good rifle for a beginner.

The .223 has low recoil and can bring down a deer if needed.

It's too big for squirrels and grouse, but that is what your shotgun is for too right?

And what kind of handguns do you have?

They are multipurpose guns too (hunting, self defense, varmint control, ect)

HTH

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:13:04 PM EDT
First off, welcome! I really think the first thing you shoot do is take a firearms training class of some sort. Teaching youself is a great way to teach yourself bad habbits, and unsafe practices. It would be worth it to use some of your budget for a class. If you need info on where a class might be, local gun stores, or local police are usualy knowledgable about how to get enrolled into one. Also, if you give us your location, you might find that someone here could be close, and might be able to meet up with you to teach you a few things for free, just to get you a little more confidet in your abilities.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:17:07 PM EDT
My advice to you is to jump right in there and take a NRA firearm safety course and join a local gun club. Many states also require a Hunters' Safety course before you will be allowed to get a hunting license. Forget about using your AR for a deer if you are not already an experienced hunter. You can get a nice bolt action rifle/scope package for under $500. A 30-06 is a nice versitile rifle for the woods. Put the other $500 aside and save up the rest for a good AR in addition to your hunting rifle. Your shotgun is all you really need for a nice home defense weapon.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:18:34 PM EDT
I'd say you should start out with a simple, no frills, weapon. Get a AR15 with a 16" or 20" barrel and a removable carry-handle. That way, when you get more educated on teh weapon system, you can add an optic to it for increased fun Welcom to the sport, it is a lot of fun and I hope you enjoy it!

You might want to check out the AR picture thread for some idears.

P.S. Watch out for Black Rifle Disease, better known as BRD. Most members here have it and it is incurable.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:18:51 PM EDT
I agree on the training. You are, believe it or not, in the BEST position to become a skilled shooter. You have not practiced any bad habits. Perfect Practice Maked Perfect. Poor Practice is hard to overcome.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:19:47 PM EDT
If you're serious about using a gun for defence, take a gun course from a reputable school. The basics are pretty much standard so anywhere is a good start. But don't get caught up in one "style" of curriculum. that $1,000 will do you more good learning how to use a gun effectively and you will see first hand what works and doesn't right off the bat. You don't just buy a Ferrari and then learn to drive it. Then find out that a SUV fits your needs better.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:19:57 PM EDT
My best advice for you, if defense is a consideration, is to get a Glock 19 handgun (be sure to get the model with fixed night sights) and get some training. Expect to spend 500 on the gun and split the other 500 on ammo and training. You will need a cleaining kit, holster (get a Blad-Tech to start with) and 2 spare mags. Get a carrier for the mags. Get a SureFire Nitrolon flashlight.

Guns are dangerous. If you don't know how to use them you will be more likely to hurt yourself than any potential attacker.

If you are set on a long arm, get a shotgun. They can be used for both hunting and self defense. Be sure to get one with sights. Training is just as important with a shotgun so be sure to get some as well. A local firing range is likely to have an NRA instructor around.

Also, be sure you know how to properly store your weapon. My preference for weapons storage is on my hip.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:25:14 PM EDT
Thank you for the advice. To asnwer previous questions, as far as handguns I have would I think is a pretty good 9 millimeter and a smaller 22 handgun.

So I take it A-15 is not to be used for hunting?

also should I buy one and then take the classes, or would they have such weapons for me to learn on there?

Lastly, where is a good place to buy an A-15. Are the online place such as GunBroker.com safe?

thanks alot.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:29:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By logosbishop:
Thank you for the advice. To asnwer previous questions, as far as handguns I have would I think is a pretty good 9 millimeter and a smaller 22 handgun.

So I take it A-15 is not to be used for hunting?

also should I buy one and then take the classes, or would they have such weapons for me to learn on there?

Lastly, where is a good place to buy an A-15. Are the online place such as GunBroker.com safe?

thanks alot.



I'm not sure about Gunbroker, but you can get a manufacturor to ship a rifle to your local Gunshop.

Check out: Bushmaster, Armalite, Colt, Rock River Arms, JT Distributing (not sure if they sell complete rifles) More people will chime in soon.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:30:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 5:32:28 PM EDT by Combat_Jack]
Gunbroker is like Ebay, you *might* get screwed. Some schools and ranges provide guns, some dont, some rent, etc. An AR 15 is a good all around weapon, if you exclude big game. It can be done, but its a tricky thing even for very proficient shooters.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:32:09 PM EDT
My preference for ARs is expensive, but its good quality.

Colt or Noveske complete rifles, followed by LMT.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:34:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Guns are dangerous.



Not all of us will agree with this statement, but I'm just starting sh*t.

Firearms are only dangerous in a dangerous mans hands, Dangerous can mean undereducated about firearm safety.

You can hunt some things with an AR-15. I feel it takes a little of experience with firearms to be able to do such a thing though.

If you already have a handgun, you can use it during the class. It's better to learn with what you have then with a gun you'll only use once at a class. The instructors can usually tell you things about your firearm you might not know.
If you want to buy online, I suggest buying fomr any of the recommended dealers on this site. If you click on the industry tab it will give you a list of websites that will link you to people who sell AR-15's and the parts and accesories for them.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:24:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 6:31:33 PM EDT by trgams]
I totally agree with everyone who suggested a hunter's safety course..also join a local gun club, or hunting club...you would be surprised how much fun it is to share a hunt, as well as the solitary hunt....Hunting with a buddy is safer, if you accidentally fall and hurt yourself, or god forbid, shoot yourself, there would be someone there to help you. A hunting buddy can have alot of pointers for you on how to successfully bag the game you seek too....If I were you when looking for your first gun, I would stick with a 12 ga. shotgun, and probably a .22 caliber rifle. You can get several different game loads for the 12 ga. even slugs, and hunt a variety of game with it, even deer with buckshot or slugs. The .22 would be great for small game like squirells, rabbit, etc, and the bullets don't totally destroy the meat..also ammo is quite reasonable for both these caliber guns.Country living can be more rewarding than you can imagine, I plan on moving back to the country when I retire, and getting "back to the basics" again. Good-Luck.


PS: The 12 ga is really an excellent home defense weapon. so is an AR-15, but the AR-15 bullet travels through walls, and several other things before it finally stops....maybe hitting something you don't want before coming to rest...it makes you think alot about what is behind your target is the only point I'm trying to make...
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:30:01 PM EDT
Well, you mentioned that you will have about 20 acres. That is more than enough room to setup a range of your own. The AR would be a good platform for what you are talking about esp. considering you have a shotgun and some pistols. I would be nice to know what kinds of handguns you are referring to. They could be multi use. My advice would be to get an AR, set up a shooting area and buy lots of ammo. Shoot as much as it takes until you are confident. Take a shooting class if you don't know where to start etc...as some others have mentioned. But most of all, be safe and have fun. Wish I was living on 20 acres and could walk out the back door shoot
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:32:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 6:38:18 PM EDT by logosbishop]
Ok folks. thank you for all your advice. It seems like from what most of you are saying, perhaps I don't need an A-15. i kind of had my mind set on one, but I've always been smart enough to listen to those with more experience then me.

Once again I really appreciate the help.

LB

Oops, the poster above posted as the same time as me and i didn't read it before I posted. Don't think that I am disregarding your advice.

My handguns are a 9 millimeter (I think its a smith and wesson, its been in the box so many years I can't rember) and a small 22 handgun we got for my wife but never took out of the box. My shotgun is something I got at a gunshow a long while back. I have no idea if it's anygood becasue I didnt know what I was doing when I bought it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:35:43 PM EDT
1) Check with local gun clubs to get information about a hunting safety course and learn how to hunt safely... This will also teach you the basics about firearm safety...

2) Buy yourself an AR-15 video course... This will teach you how to properly operate your AR-15...

3) Buy yourself an AR-15 A3 flat top carbine... With this you can change between optics for defense or hunting... Get the correct ammo for the job... You will need hunting and self defense ammunition...

Only shoot deer on your private property, and do head shots, preferably when the deer is eating, like when its eating from a feeder And never ever kill more game than you have use for...

I think If you would follow the above advice, you will have everything for your needs plus your going to have one hell of a fun gun



Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:38:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By logosbishop:
Ok folks. thank you for all your advice. It seems like from what most of you are saying, perhaps I don't need an A-15. i kind of had my mind set on one, but I've always been smart enough to listen to those with more experience then me.

Once again I really appreciate the help.

LB



Nah, Get an AR15 if it's what you want. Listen to the post directly above mine by theshootersden, That is some good advice.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:46:47 PM EDT
I would disagree w/ not getting an AR-15. A .223 is plenty to bring down a deer w/ a well placed shot, and with the low recoil and an optic that is sighted correctly, even a beginner could do it. Plus how can you buy a bolt action rifle when you could get a repeater?

A friend of mine has a 7mm (7mag, a HUGE caliber) and when he saw me pound out about 20 rounds of .223, the look of jealousy overcame him! Besides, with only 20 acres to hunt on, you could even hunt deer with a slug out of your shotgun (one big steel ball instead of lots of small BB's). You're set: get a flat-top AR-15 (no carry handle - optic will be more accurate) and spend the $1000 on the gun and accessorizing. Plus, I bought my AR from Gunbroker.com and didn't have a problem at all. Pic of mine is below, got it for $675 from an individual on Gunbroker. It's a Bushmaster and I haven't had one problem with it.

Welcome to the club.

Pic

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:51:19 PM EDT
Wow. Great . Great advice. I do need to do alot more research aparently to figure out alot of these terms you guys are using, but I definatly will look into getting one. Any other advice on exact brands and models numbers, good place to buy, and recomended scopes would also be recomended. Im sorry to aks so many questions, but I really do want to learn as much as I can.

Thanks alot all.

LB
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:51:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 6:52:53 PM EDT by Combat_Jack]

Originally Posted By chris157c:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Guns are dangerous.



Not all of us will agree with this statement, but I'm just starting sh*t.

Firearms are only dangerous in a dangerous mans hands, Dangerous can mean undereducated about firearm safety.




Guns are a tool, and like any tool, the operator must be proficient in order to work with them safely. We all know that a loaded gun on a table is not a dangerous thing, but when the wrong person picks it up, someone could get hurt. This situation is usually overcome with a minimal amount of training.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:54:49 PM EDT
welcome-

if its big make sure its pushed into your shoulder pocket good and hard!
like that first guy said a AR-15 would be a good satrted if you can get your hands on one.
dont let the bang scare you away either.

anyway good luck and have fun
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:06:52 PM EDT
forgot to mention this before
AR15 can be very$$$ but depending on the brand will depend on the $$$

all people feel different about brands. If this is your fist time it might not matter but dont go buya piece of crap either.

Colts, Bushmaster, DPMS (Panther Arms), Rock River are somegood names.

Colts are over priced if you ask me but the've been around for many years so they must be doing something right. (alot of Colt people are wishing I would drop dead for saying something bad about colt but I dont care, its my opinion not theirs)

Bushmaster makes a good AR. I got buddies in Iraq and thats what they were issued. Their up ther on price but its worth it.

DPMS(Panther Arms) make cheaper ARs. They might not be good enought to split a knats a$$ hair but they get the job done.

Rock River makes a durable AR. The DEA uses and abuses them and they claim they still work perfect. I think that their prices might be kinda high but im not sure.(never shopped for them when i bought mine)

If you want to go really cheap, go to a gun show and piece it together. My Bushmaster complete form the factory woulda been like $1700 but I "built" mine for $1100-1200ish.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:27:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 7:29:33 PM EDT by theshootersden]

Originally Posted By logosbishop:
Wow. Great . Great advice. I do need to do alot more research aparently to figure out alot of these terms you guys are using, but I definatly will look into getting one. Any other advice on exact brands and models numbers, good place to buy, and recomended scopes would also be recomended. Im sorry to aks so many questions, but I really do want to learn as much as I can.

Thanks alot all.

LB



gunbroker.com is ok to buy from... Ive been buying and selling there for 3 years now and have never been ripped off... I highly recommend the place... A buying tip for any auction site, buy from those with good positive feedback... If you find something that interests you, read the sellers feedback and if its A+ then you will most likely be dealing with someone that you can trust...

As for an AR-15 to buy, get a complete rifle to start with... Later on if you get the 'disease' you can build others from the knowledge that you acquire from this site and the hands on experience you'll have from your first AR...

You do not have to buy the most expensive AR to get a quality AR... There are many different AR brands to choose from... I recommend buying a Bushmaster A3 carbine... The reasons being, it is priced right and has a higher quality barrel (4150 steel)... Get the 1:9 twist barrel... The 1:9 barrel will handle soft point hunting ammo real well and it will also spit out those full metal jackets real nicely too...

The bushmaster will come with a removable carry handle, this is sufficient for the self defense sight... You can always add a BUIS and an Eotech or Aimpoint later on down the road, but no hurry because the Bushmaster has the sight on the carry handle to use right away...

As for the glass (scope) for hunting, no need to go over board, get a 3-9x40 or 3-9x50, either will serve you well... Get a Simmons or Bushnell, you wont be disappointed...

ETA: I forgot to mention, you can accomplish all this with your $1000 budget too



Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:29:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:32:21 PM EDT
Wow Thank you guys very much for your posts. This is exactly the information I was looking for. I am very impressed with how helpful everyone has been. If anyone else has advice I'd love to hear it. thanks alot.

LB
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:48:13 PM EDT
Congratulations on your new hobby! Also for your new home. I envy you.


An AR-15 is probably the most versatile rifle you could buy. Hands down. Now I am not going to claim to be much of a hunter myself, but my grandfather has been hunting deer with mini-14's in .223 since before I was born, and he has never wounded and lost an animal. I have even seen people hunt wild boar with an AR and they are some tough mo-fo's. Of course, if you are going to be hunting with other people they might look at you twice for hunting with an AR-15. Some people disagree with me. I think's its more of a tradition thing really. I have a friend who shot a deer with a .338 Lapua Magnum (HUGE and fast caliber) and had to track the damn thing for a mile and almost lost it. Its all about shot placement.


Like I said, the guys on this board probably know more than me so take my opinion for what it is.



I'd say definitely get an AR-15. You will get more use and enjoyment out of it then any alternatives in my opinion.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:48:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Beefypeanut:

Originally Posted By logosbishop:
Ok folks. thank you for all your advice. It seems like from what most of you are saying, perhaps I don't need an A-15. i kind of had my mind set on one, but I've always been smart enough to listen to those with more experience then me.

Once again I really appreciate the help.

LB



Nah, Get an AR15 if it's what you want. Listen to the post directly above mine by theshootersden, That is some good advice.



+1


Don't listen to all the naysayers - get one!!! You'll love it!


Seriously, though - for those of us that have been in the military (especially infantry) a RIFLE is the end-all, be-all weapon. Handguns are cute, and shotguns are nice for hunting pheasants - but a rifle (especially something like a 16" AR - is a very versatile weapon). Since you are planning to move out in the sticks, and simplify your life, I honestly think an AR is a great first choice.

Nothing wrong with a good handgun (or a shottie) - but as the saying goes, the purpose of a handgun is to fight your way to your rifle.

The AR is an easy rifle to learn to shoot, especially if you take a course or class, or if you hook up with some local arfcommers, who are usually very helpful and friendly. And for $1000, you should be able to get a great AR, plus some ammo. If you want to get some optics later, you'll need to spend some more.

IF you get one, I'd personally recommend a 16" "midlength" AR, which is a somewhat uncommon design (but not really rare), and slightly superior to the normal 16" designs. There's nothing wong with a regular 16" carbine (don't misunderstand me), but the 16" midlength design is slightly better (but it's really a marginal issue). As others said, definitely get one with a detatchable carry handle, since that will make it much easier IF you decide to add optics down the road.

Absolutely spend more time on the site, figuring out the pros and cons before you buy.

Welcome aboard!
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:52:14 PM EDT
We really ought to design a spec rifle to issue to the newbies......

To get them addicted.....
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:55:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 7:58:02 PM EDT by Mattl]
Consider an AK its nearly idiot proof and dirt simple to operate more reliable and no real skill or effort is required to maintain it. It is a better and cheaper all around starter gun.

To clean you need bore cleaner, gunscrubber, and CLP. Just remove reciever cover take out spring then bolt. Swab the barrel bore to muzzle with bore cleaner. Spray gunscrubber on bolt and bolt carrier let run, spray internals of gun let run, let parts dry. Then spraay on CLP and put it back together. Scrub the gas tube every couple thousand rounds and you are good. AK is a better starter I reccomend 7.62x39 first then 5.45 later.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:59:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
We really ought to design a spec rifle to issue to the newbies......

To get them addicted.....



There are too many great configurations... I think recommending brands will work fine...

My personal favorite, Rock River Arms. Bushmaster is great too. Those can be had with your budget.

I would say get an AR-15 for the simple fact you may never know when they might get taken off the market later down the line. We all hope that never happens, but we also know it could... Once you finally do shoot, I'm sure your gonna like it, so you'll want one. Just get it now, save yourself the trouble...
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:04:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 8:07:19 PM EDT by BravoCompanyUSA]
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:14:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 8:15:54 PM EDT by EternalVigilance]
Don't bother with an AK. They are great guns and they have their place but hunting with an AK is really not a good idea at all when considering shot placement (which requires accuracy). Not trying to be a dick here, AKs are great guns, but I don't think anybody hunts with AKs. Hunting with ARs might not be the most popular way, but it is done. Besides, your wife will enjoy the AR more. Not trying to diss AKs and we don't want to ruin this thread by starting that argument here, if you are interested in AKs you will find plenty of AR vs AK argument shit throwing threads if you look for them.

Besides, AKs are Evil. ARs are the guns of the good guys. Everybody knows that.



That said, here is what one member here and his rifle did to this boar (BTW, boars are a lot meaner / tougher / thicker then deer)




ETA:

also, since you want an all around weapon not just for hunting but also for home defense, an AR is the way to go. Some might argue that there are rifles better suited to hunting then ARs, but it can be done with an AR. No one will argue that a bolt gun would be better for home defense or SHTF (Shit Hit The Fan).
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:20:06 PM EDT
EternalVigilance is right... Stay way from the AK... The AK is a nice weapon, I own 2, but, It isnt the tool for your job...
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:37:57 PM EDT
You guys have been amazingly helpful and its much appreciated.

One more question. What would you say is a fair price right now for an AR-15 A3 flat top carbine?

I don't want to get ripped off.

Thanks again.

LB
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:45:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 9:00:20 PM EDT by SimonTan]
I recommend buying a second hand Ruger 10/22 .22LR semi from your local gun shop and get comfortable with shooting. Master sight picture, trigger control breathing etc. for pennies per round. You'll alkso find that many indoor ranges don't support centrefire rifle calibres like the .223.

When you feel you're shooting pretty good, then it would eb time to start thinking about bigger and better. I guarantee you'll lose no more than $100 when you resell the 10/22.

Edit:- Don't sell the 10/22. Give it to the missus after you refinish the wood and metal yourself and she'll not only be horribly impressed and flattered, she'll start shooting too. She'll never bitch at you about spending hours in the work rooom ever again.

The 10/22 is good enough for rabbits and such.

Simon
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:46:44 PM EDT
Im still a newbie (much like your self) Ive been to quite a few shows though - You can pick up a decent RRA (rock river) For between 700 - 900 at a decent gun show

Some of the ones ive seen sometimes will include optics

Ive always been a gun show fan myself - But a local store would be good - You'll probably pay a hair more
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 5:59:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 6:07:19 AM EDT by theshootersden]

Originally Posted By logosbishop:
You guys have been amazingly helpful and its much appreciated.

One more question. What would you say is a fair price right now for an AR-15 A3 flat top carbine?

I don't want to get ripped off.

Thanks again.

LB



They can be found for around $900 give or take a few $... Heres a link to an auction, so you can get an idea about what your looking for...
www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=37155130
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:05:08 AM EDT
Where are you located.

It might be a good idea to hit your hometown forum and get in touch with someone local. Talk nice and you might be able to try before you buy.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:58:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 7:01:54 AM EDT by Einstein]
You can find a civilian-version M4 (semi-auto) for around $700. Like many have already said, just get a good basic platform like the one pictured below. Once you are more familiar with the weapon & sport, you can add to it later.

http://www.colt.com/mil/images/M4.jpg

The biggest thing you need to do is to take a class & MORE IMPORTANTLY, take your weapons to the shooting range & practice, practice, practice. You said that you have two handguns & a shotgun that you have never shot. If you bought them for self-defense, you need to be 100% comfortable with them because if you are in a situation where you need to use it & you have the additional burden of stress, fear & adreneline, you'll be fubar.

Here's an example of what that's like:

You don't know how to drive, but yet you buy a car for emergency purposes (like taking your wife to the hospital). You have it delivered to your house (since you can't drive) & you store it in your garage. Years later when your wife becomes pregnant & her water breaks (there is no 911 service in your area). You run to your garage & you both get in your car. Do you even know if it will start? Do you want to start learning how to drive then while she's screaming, bleeding & you're stressed to hell?
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:16:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 8:17:49 AM EDT by ALPHAGHOST]

Originally Posted By trgams:

PS: The 12 ga is really an excellent home defense weapon. so is an AR-15, but the AR-15 bullet travels through walls, and several other things before it finally stops....



true, but remember that 12ga slugs/00/000/04 etc buckshot will go through just as many walls also and the bullet(s) will retain more mass than a 5.56/.223 before stopping as the 5.56 will hopefully fragment or break apart suffiently compared to a load of buckshot....

for $1000, i would get an AR flatop (i would folllow BCUSA.com's suggestions but supliment a M4 bbl w/ a HBAR or something b/c it would morelikly be cheaper)--BUSHMASTER and RRA are great brands to start with, but you might find some builds or a self build (from kits or just an complete upper and lower) and save a little cash

+1 on gettting a Ruger 10/22--wally world has the best price NIB, but you can find one used at local pawn shops--pay no more than $180 NIB

as to the AR, either a cheap build (check the EE and Industry forums for parts/rifles/accessories) and the "how to" forum and read around to learn as much as you can on shooting/ARs/etc

also, get that training/firearms/hunting course down ASAP

good luck and WELCOME to the site

bt/w: what brand/model shotgun and handguns do you have?
and i second the 12ga to be an excellent CQB/HD gun

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:22:53 AM EDT
Getting a "homestead" and moving out of the city... What exactly does this mean? You are moving out into the woods? Is there a chance you may run into a bear or a cougar? Do you have a large chunk of property?

If I were you I would get a big handgun first. Something you keep on your side at all times. And i would consider doing the same for your wife. For you, strap a 44 Magnum to yourhip, and do not leave home without it. get your wife a .44 special, or at the very least, a .357 magnum. You may need to proptect yourself from an animal that will sneak up on you and attack. A rifle may not serve you well in the role of protection.

That said, then a shotgun and a rifle will do you well. There is something to be said for the magazine capacity of a weapon like the AR15...

But first and foremost, if you are going to be in the country, I would carry a large caliber handgun at all times.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:34:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 8:35:22 AM EDT by cdhicks99]
In what state do you live bishop?
I'm sure there are members near you that wold love to show you some toys.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:51:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:

Originally Posted By trgams:

PS: The 12 ga is really an excellent home defense weapon. so is an AR-15, but the AR-15 bullet travels through walls, and several other things before it finally stops....



true, but remember that 12ga slugs/00/000/04 etc buckshot will go through just as many walls also and the bullet(s) will retain more mass than a 5.56/.223 before stopping as the 5.56 will hopefully fragment or break apart suffiently compared to a load of buckshot....

for $1000, i would get an AR flatop (i would folllow BCUSA.com's suggestions but supliment a M4 bbl w/ a HBAR or something b/c it would morelikly be cheaper)--BUSHMASTER and RRA are great brands to start with, but you might find some builds or a self build (from kits or just an complete upper and lower) and save a little cash

+1 on gettting a Ruger 10/22--wally world has the best price NIB, but you can find one used at local pawn shops--pay no more than $180 NIB

as to the AR, either a cheap build (check the EE and Industry forums for parts/rifles/accessories) and the "how to" forum and read around to learn as much as you can on shooting/ARs/etc

also, get that training/firearms/hunting course down ASAP

good luck and WELCOME to the site

bt/w: what brand/model shotgun and handguns do you have?
and i second the 12ga to be an excellent CQB/HD gun




I sure hope this doesn't turn into another one of those threads
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:37:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 6:38:03 PM EDT by boltcatch]

All of the horrible statistics you read about for firearm "accidents" happened because proper saftey was not followed.


Actually, the reason we have those horrible statistics is because the Schumer and Feinstein crowd take the number of deaths per year in firearms accidents -- about 300 or so, IIRC, including about 2 or 3 dozen children -- and add in several thousand suicides and homicides within the same household. Their statistics have no real relation to how safe or unsafe it is to own a firearm.


That being said, don't forget that when you budget for a firearm you also need to take into account magazines (if it's a mag fed firearm)ammo, tools/cleaning items, and as others have mentioned, training.

For an AR-15, for example, you might spend $800 for the rifle, $150 for 10 magazines, $30 for a cleaning kit and some oil, $300 for a basic carbine class, and $400 for a couple thousand rounds of good ammo to sock away (XM193, Q3131A, etc.).

A lot of us are lucky in that we had Uncle Sam and the American taxpayer teach us how to use our AR-15's -- that's one of the major benefits of the AR platform.

And if you don't have a .22 rifle, buy one! Everyone needs one, just like everyone needs a good hammer or an axe.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:55:47 PM EDT
Yes heres some advise. Do what alot of the others have told you and take a basic firearms safety class. The instead of buying a new gun shoot the ones you have first. Get comfortable with them. Don't get complacent get comfortable and develop GOOD HABITS. Then go out and get an AR-15 NOT an A-15. Please dont come back here and ask which is better Colt or Bushmaster its gonna start a shitstorm AGAIN. My point is about not buying an AR is that you might NOT enjoy shooting. I know it sounds weird but there are some people who dont like to do it. So why waste 1000 bucks on a rifle until you test the waters with what you have and see if you like it. Good luck BE SAFE and happy shooting and posting.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:11:45 PM EDT
I haven't seen anyone recommend the 2005 SEBR that is currently being sold on this site for 761.50 delivered. It seems to match what alot people are suggesting to you. Join as a bronze member to save the $50 charge. I have ordered one myself for my first AR15. Go to the home page and scroll down to the link and check it out. It will take a lille while to get it but it seems to be a very good deal.

Link Posted: 9/15/2005 8:57:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eagle308us:
Where are you located.

It might be a good idea to hit your hometown forum and get in touch with someone local. Talk nice and you might be able to try before you buy.



This and CDHicks post are great advice. Would you buy a car without test driving it first? Introduce yourself, and I'm sure you'll have more than enough people willing to show you AR, and other types of rifles.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 9:03:43 AM EDT
what state are you in cause they can be illegal where your're at.
welcome to the board
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 10:18:15 AM EDT
Welcome to the land of the black rifle.
Great move buying some acreage. Some good info here. First off take it slow and easy (well maybe a little bit quicker on shooting what guns you have). Sounds like you may have a chance to build you a nice shooting range on your property (this is worth so much in itself, you don't realize yet). Learn the safety and basics of shooting, go plinking with your .22, and learn how to clean your guns properly, take your time and enjoy it, don't make it a chore to learn. Learn to shoot your other guns also. ARs are great little guns. .223/5.56 are arguably a little light for deer, but there are the other AR variant uppers like 6.5mm Grendel and 6.8 SPC that could fill the deer hunting niche a little better and coverage the home protection issue as well. Buy you an AR lower and select what upper you think you would like is an option (pull/push two pins and you've swapped calibers).
Don't worry about the role model thing; life is pretty much a learn as you go thing anyway (good choices and bad choices) that includes hunting and fishing.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 10:50:34 AM EDT
Get an AR. For model and configuration, I would defer to the others who have posted before me. They are fun and extremely versatile. However, before using it for deer hunting, you will need to check with the state in which you live or will be living to see if it is legal to hunt deer with a .223 or an AR. If there is a range or gun shop in the area where you are going to be moving to, I would recommend that you stop by and make friends, ask questions, and take a hunters safety course. See if some of your new friends will take you along with them on some bird and deer hunts. If you find that you enjoy the sport, then purchase a used deer rifle if you are unable to use the AR. They are a dime a dozen at most gun shops. You can also get a used shotgun for birds. As far as a handgun goes, if there are any ranges that rent guns, try some out. Get the gun(s) that fit you the best and that you are comfortable shooting. If that's a revolver, so be it...if its a semi auto, be it. If at first you are only comfortable shooting a .22, then get the .22. As you shoot more and become more comfortable with it, then you can move up to something bigger. Taking a self-defense course or handgun course to get some training is probably the best route in making the determination, but I know that it not always feasible. Check into it. Good luck.
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