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Posted: 5/10/2004 5:05:57 PM EST
Today is my first time ever veiwing this page. I did a search for AR forums and this was the first one I found. I have been sitting here for about 3 hours just reading old post. This place is great.

OK here it goes.

In 2 weeks i head out west for a P Dog shooting trip. I have the bug real bad to get an AR.
I am a bolt action guy and everybody I am going with has ar's. Last i drooled over those guys constant shooting. I must make a purchase.....

We have wilsons in the group and Bushmasters so to mix things up a bit i am leaning toward the
colt. The gun I like the most is the Colt accurized model Cr6724. This has a stainless barrel and
i am assuming it would be excellent for the job. I can get this gun from a local dealer for $1050.

My other choice is this dealer has a Match Target HBAR #MT6601C that he will sell me for $875.
That seems like a great price i just wonder what you guys think would be a better gun for me.

The colt accurized has a 1/9 twist with a 24in barrel and the HBAR has a 1/7 twist.
As far as the twist rates go I have no idea what is better or maybe even bad.

HELP PLEASE...
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:26:31 PM EST
Well, I'm not much of an expert on Colt products, but I know that they are pretty good. The 1/9 and 1/7 is an important decision since they can handle different types of bullets. The 1/7 can handle a bigger bullet since the barrel twist will be tighter and the 1/9 is good for the 55gr bullet and the 62gr. I think that a 1/9 will kill a P dog, but its up to you wether or not you want to spend more for the bigger bullets or for the smaller, cheaper type.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:30:32 PM EST
I think I may like the idea of the cheaper ammo. But on the other hand i only go 1 time a year so the price of ammo really is not a big deal. I wonder if the accurized will be more accurate than the HBAR
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:33:25 PM EST
Here is some more info for you if you haven't been there already: Ammo Oracle
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:39:42 PM EST
That sounds to me(No expert) like a good price for the Colt. And Colt is nice!!

But why dont you get a ArmaLite to spice up the bunch
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:40:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By eaglebite:
The 1/9 and 1/7 is an important decision since they can handle different types of bullets. The 1/7 can handle a bigger bullet since the barrel twist will be tighter and the 1/9 is good for the 55gr bullet and the 62gr.



Is that true? I never knew that the twist rate effected anything but the spin/stability of the round in flight. Because U have been there before and I know how big the site is I'll just ask: Is that on the Ammo Oracle. This is intrigueing
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:53:29 PM EST
I would go with the 1/7, if you buy the 1/9 24" barrel you will be stuck with using match ammo. The 1/7 is more likely a .556 chamber where the 1/9 24" is a .223 chamber. Both prices are good, the 1/7 is a 20" hbar it will out shoot my ability all day long.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 6:01:05 PM EST
I would definetly look at that colt accurized, maybe the bushy varminter, armalite 24", even DPMS 24 inch bull barrel set-up (really accurate from my experience but all are gonna be accurate) RRA varminter.

Should you get a chrome-lined barrel? Any of these manufacturers offer chrome-lined.

I have heard that some swat teams are supplying their short range sniper with colts, bushy, and dpms varminters, true?
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 6:05:19 PM EST
May I also suggest some of Rock River Arms rifles? Their varmint A4 flattops are quite a bot cheaper than what you mentioned, have a 1:8 stainless bull barrel and free float tubes. They guarantee 3/4" MOA out of the box and come with a really nice 2-stage trigger.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 6:14:03 PM EST
My biggest problem is I dont have much time to research different guns. I leave in 2 weeks and that has to be enough time to order a gun, 1500 rounds, scope and rings then put it all together.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 6:26:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 6:33:21 PM EST by M11293]
I was hitting around .5 and maybe better with my DPMS 24" Super bull (used fairly good ammunition) and that was with bipod and stock rest, so it wasnt particulary hard. Damn accurate. They run around 1100 I think, bipod 90$, 250 dolloar Nikon Buckmaster 3x9 50mm scope, leupold detachable scope rings 50$?.

Heavier then shit, but that helps with the accuracy. 12 lbs Remember accuracy has about 90% to do with the shooter.

I also highly recommend RRA, more bang for the buck from the numerous posts I have read about their rifles.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 6:26:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By Pdogwacker:
My biggest problem is I dont have much time to research different guns. I leave in 2 weeks and that has to be enough time to order a gun, 1500 rounds, scope and rings then put it all together.



Go with RRA! Mine has over 2k rounds through it and still shoots sub .5moa with handloads frequently. Excellent value and an awesome rifle. I think the 24" version is offered in 1:12" twist too. Good for 40-55 grain bullets.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 6:28:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 6:30:07 PM EST by eaglebite]

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:

Originally Posted By eaglebite:
The 1/9 and 1/7 is an important decision since they can handle different types of bullets. The 1/7 can handle a bigger bullet since the barrel twist will be tighter and the 1/9 is good for the 55gr bullet and the 62gr.



Is that true? I never knew that the twist rate effected anything but the spin/stability of the round in flight. Because U have been there before and I know how big the site is I'll just ask: Is that on the Ammo Oracle. This is intrigueing



To be honest, I don't really know if it is on the Oracle, but I gave that link for the good info on bullets, not twists. Here are some links for twist info:

Oly Arms Twist

Deadeye

Twist Formula
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 6:52:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 7:01:13 PM EST by Fenian]
The accurized Colt will be a fine p'dog rifle...accurate as you need. Slap a good varmint scope on there, and marmots everywhere will fear your name lol.

You don't need a chrome lined bore for a 'dog gun...or anything else if you expect to be able to clean the rifle regularly, and don't plan on spending the next year in the jungles of Thailand.

The faster twist enable you to shoot heavier bullets...1/9 will handle just about anything you'd ever think about sending towards a prarie dog; if you plan on shooting 600 yard matches, you will need the heaviest bullet you can get, so the 1/7 would be better. For general all around shooting, the 1/9 is fine. 1/9 can handle 69 and 70 grain bullets very well, so that's all the twist you need except under very long range conditions. The 1/7 *can* spin lighter bullets literally into oblivion, disintegrating well before they reach their target. If you want to shoot 40gr bullets, the 1/7 might be a little too fast. I would expect the 50 and 55 gr bullets to be the varminters choice, 1/9 seems the perfect choice there too.

The RRA varmint rifle is indeed very nice...I had a 16" varmint upper, and it was a quality piece.
It lists for $975, so you could probably get it for under $900 easily.

You'll enjoy whatever you get, so have fun.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 7:25:25 PM EST
I would go with the 6724 for what you want to do. Then, in the future, if you decide you want another bbl length or twist rate, you can get another upper...or another gun. You will find that you can't own just one lol.

Kevin
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 2:55:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 3:20:43 AM EST
I've done two p-dog trips to eastern Montana. Optics are as important as the rifle and you may want to go with more than a 3-9x scope. This year I'm taking a DPMS Superbull topped with a Burris Signature 6-20x50AO. I've only used 55gr pointed soft point handloads in it with .5moa accuracy. That is quite satisfactory for open range shooting. Remember you'll be crankin' on the scope constantly so target knobs are highly desireable. Wind & heat will walk those bullets all over the place.

Jay's in Clare has several varmint style AR's in stock. Just step right up to the counter & melt down a credit card and buy a new one BTW, are you headed to the Mowbridge area?
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 4:02:33 AM EST
Well I'm just amazed that I'm the first to say this......
buy both it's the ARFCOM motto. Besides if you get bitten you will anyway.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 4:47:49 AM EST

BTW, are you headed to the Mowbridge area?



Southhoof

We shot the mowbridge area last year and it was great. This year we will be somewhere south
of piere. I am not exactly sure where.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 5:06:16 AM EST
For the RRA guys What grain ammo do you mostly shoot.
I am asking this because of the 1/8 twist.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 5:43:30 AM EST
Get the 6724. Thats a good price & will hold value due to its name. Use a heavy(min 55gr BT) for longer shots & fragmentation. The extra umph from the 4" of barrel will help also. A 20x quality scope & rings, your set. The hawks & scavangers will love you. No excuses if you miss though -Justin
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 6:25:01 AM EST
get a Rock River...

www.rockriverarms.com

get it @:

www.adcofirearms.com

get a 20in chromemoly and flute it up.... of course you'll need a flat top....

as for ammo... humm.... i have some 55gr winchester ranger ammo that is rapid expansion.... i'd assume this to work pretty well... i'd even bet it to fire 50gr's.... you'll need to do some testing...

---

i'm proud of you my son.... you have seen the ways of the AR15 and you understand why you must have one!

good luck!
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 6:41:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By Boom:
I would go with the 1/7, if you buy the 1/9 24" barrel you will be stuck with using match ammo. The 1/7 is more likely a .556 chamber where the 1/9 24" is a .223 chamber. Both prices are good, the 1/7 is a 20" hbar it will out shoot my ability all day long.

Good luck.



Guys - the man wants to shoot p-dogs which means 45-55 grain match bullets are exactly what he will want to use. A 1/9 twist barrel is perfect. Cost of ammo, 68-77 grain bullets, etc. is all meaningless for his situation.

Get the CR6724 as that's a damm good price on a good gun, put a good scope on it and have a ball.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 7:29:46 AM EST
will federal 55 grain hollow point ammo disingrate with that twist rate.
Is 55 grain to light of ammo for 1:8 twist
I have a local ffl dealer that can get me the RRA A4 24" for $925
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 8:01:27 AM EST
Ok.... My dealer just convinced me to go with the 24" RRA A4.
So with that in my hands by friday I need to make a decision on ammo.

What brand?, What Grain?

thanks
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 11:35:24 AM EST
45gr Winchester varmint value packs from Wally World(Wal-mart) can be pretty accurate for the cash.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 11:42:18 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 4:15:59 PM EST
If you hunt out in the middle of nowhere, a FMJ wouldn't hurt I think since you don't have to worry about ricochet, but if there is anyone living close by, I would get a soft point or hollow point. If you aren't worried about the price of the varmint ammo, get Federal.
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