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Posted: 6/6/2003 10:43:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2003 10:44:49 AM EDT by ConfederatemummyAR15]
I constantly see people bitching about wolf being "dirty" ammo. Well, thats Eugene Stoner's fault, not the fault of the Wolf ammunition company. My friends regularly shoot Wolf ammo through their Mini-14s, SL8-1's, and .223 chambered AK's and they generally stay clean as a whistle. If you don't like the grime, buy different ammo or buy a different gun, and quit your bitching



Long live the cheapness!
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:36:32 PM EDT
I have no bitch about the cleanliness of any ammo. Wolf .223 Ammo is lacking power and accuracy BIG TIME. Neither my mini, or AR will shoot anything other than a shotgun patterned group with the stuff. Throwing rocks would be better practice. But, I guess you would say that both of my guns are bad? They both seem to feed, function and otherwise run flawless with ANY other ammo. I even get decent groups with other ammo. I'll make you a deal, since you like the Wolf so much, I wont buy any more of it so there will be more for you. Anything that won't hold milk Jug sized groups at 100 yards is not good practice ammo in my book anyhow.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:38:19 PM EDT
i just don't like ammo that will blow up a gun every 10,000 rounds.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:45:42 PM EDT
. My friends regularly shoot Wolf ammo through their Mini-14s, SL8-1's, and .223 chambered AK's and they generally stay clean as a whistle.
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horseshit
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:52:06 PM EDT
My AR's a dirty sucker after shooting Wolf, but it isn't going to blow up (love that ganja, 308!). It is a good point, though, that very nearly ever other .223 system has no complaints about Wolf ammo. I'm definitely convinced it's a maintainence problem.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 3:39:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2003 3:40:37 PM EDT by gootmacher]
Ok wolf users listen up! i have shot 8 cases of wolf 55gr through my bushmaster with no problems whatsoever, today i went shooting and had a case stick in the chamber. it wouldnt come out till i came home and tapped it out with a cleaning rod. i see no damage to my chamber or to the extractor, actually the steel case is softer than the extractor cause it ripped the edge off the case. the chamber was clean, closer inspection to the chamber i found a white powder(probably laquer residue)on the walls of the chamber.i shit, i couldnt believe i finally got bit, it happened on about the 100th round of the day, i had my other ar that i was testing some reloads in so it didnt ruin my day. i will keep shooting wolf since i see no damage other than my pride, also its cheap and the average failure is 1 in 8800 rounds, cant beat that. wanted to tell you guys about it, it does happen, i know know.LOL! no big deal though since its easy to tap out and clean the chamber. I can honestly say it was the ammo on this failure, not the rifle since its the same rifle that ate 8800 rounds without a problem.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 3:39:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 308wood: i just don't like ammo that will blow up a gun every 10,000 rounds.
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I'd love to see your source on that... If Wolf blew up a rifle every 10,000 rounds, the Ammoman alone would have killed 1,000 AR's. I think we would all have heard about it.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 3:42:14 PM EDT
blew off another 140 rounds of it tonight and another 100 of barnaul. no problems at all. if your ar don't run on this stuff its the gun not the ammo.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 3:54:17 PM EDT
LOL, i used to think that also DARTH_PAVORIS!!
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 4:41:50 PM EDT
i clean offten and thorghly i won't have a problem. i do think i'll bring some empties back next time and tumble them and then test out solvents to find out what can eat the laqauuer on the cases. i suspect acetone will do nicely.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 4:48:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SGB:
. My friends regularly shoot Wolf ammo through their Mini-14s, SL8-1's, and .223 chambered AK's and they generally stay clean as a whistle.
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horseshit
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I agree, horseshit. I frequently use Russian ammo, but hae to say it is the dirtiest stuff I have ever seen.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 4:56:43 PM EDT
the rifle was clean, i always clean after every trip, dont know why it stuck today, but there is white powder in the chamber. the only thing i have changed was clp instead of oil, maybe there is something in the clp that doesnt agree with the laquer. thats the only thing i can think of. the rounds were the end of the 8th case, havent seen the white powder befroe.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 6:42:18 PM EDT
HOLY SHIT, when did we become MINI-14.COM?????? See sigline. TXL
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 8:16:07 PM EDT
I have to agree with chaos, mine will shoot it ok but its way underloaded and the best groups i can get are about 8 inches at 100 yards.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 8:26:38 PM EDT
Wrong, Moron! I had to help mini 14 guys remove stuck cases from there weapons in my patrol rifle class. It's the ammo! Long live the dopey threads!
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 8:29:19 PM EDT
Wolf ammo is really not that dirtier than some other brands, but its tendency to cause malfunctions in certain semi-auto weapons is real. In fact the stuck cartridge cases causes the bolt on my M96 rifle to lock up. And for the first time, Wolf holds the distinction of being the only factory-loaded .223 ammo to cause a malfunction in a single-shot Thompson Contender Pistol. After firing one round, no amount of force on the Thompson's trigger guard was able to open the barreled action. Had to remove the handguard and punch out the action/receiver pivot pin to remove the barreled action before resorting to a cleaning rod to punch out the stuck case from the chamber.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 8:34:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By obershutze916: I agree, horseshit. I frequently use Russian ammo, but hae to say it is the dirtiest stuff I have ever seen.
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Ahhh, I take it you haven't shot ammo from my homeland, Venezuela. THAT is some dirty stuff.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 8:35:29 PM EDT
Obviously, you guys have shoot a lot of Wolf through your rifles. If you guys aren't seeing any kind of excessive wear to the bolt or extractor I'll use it for short range stuff. Even if I have to replace the extractor every 1500 or 200 rounds, that's no biggy.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 8:36:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2003 1:13:19 AM EDT by markmcjunkins]
Obviously, you guys have shot a lot of Wolf through your rifles. If you guys aren't seeing any kind of excessive wear to the bolt or extractor I'll use it for short range stuff. Even if I have to replace the extractor every 1500 or 200 rounds, that's no biggy.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 8:47:49 PM EDT
"IT'S YOUR ARS PROBLEM NOT WOLF" Your logic is you should be able to run any ammo through your AR. Using your logic I should be able to run any fuel through my car. If the car won't run on cheap, watered down, alcohol laced fuel it is the cars fault. Not that I am running the wrong fuel. Remember, mil specs for M193 ammo (among other things) had to be changed in the early years of the AR for more reliable care and feeding. The ammo was tuned to the gun. Then Wolf comes along with cheap ammo and now a "good" AR must run Wolf or it is the guns fault. By the way the AR came before .223 made by Wolf. If Wolf runs fine in your AR and you want to use it more power to you. However, I bet you would also put regular unleaded in a Lamborghini. MM
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 9:06:28 PM EDT
yeah.....right.... i call bullshit. someone is suffering from rectal-cranial inversion here.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 9:29:27 PM EDT
CM, you are fast becoming my least favorite troll. Go post at ak47.com if you are going to spend so much time bitching about how much ARs suck.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 9:37:30 PM EDT
Maybe he's a [:K] but , with 63,000+ members, I'd like to know how many rounds of Wolf it takes to choke an AR. There has to be a enough members here to figure out if Wolf will run or not. We should also be able to figure out if Wolf wears our Ar's faster, and to what extent. Right?[:\]
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 9:44:54 PM EDT
i havent seen any real wear on my extractor and i have shot 8 cases of wolf. as i posted above today was my first failure, the extractor took a big bite out of the rim of the steel case and still looks normal. i emailed wolf to see what the white powder is on my chamber walls. ill let you guys know what they say if anything.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 9:52:38 PM EDT
If it doesn't work in your rifle, don't use it. It's pretty simple. [>:/] CHRIS
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 11:36:03 PM EDT
wolf works fine in my bushmaster i had about 1000 rounds go through today no failures at all...it was dirty but after every time shooting the rifle is dirty no matter what...its an AR I normally use XM193 all the time but wanted to rip off a few mags as fast as I can shoot and load that was about 200 rounds shot that way and the gun was quite hot. My only thoughts were that Wolf seems real inconsisten on loads some shot real hot and others were pfft. fireballs were there but not on every shot. i use it as my anger management rounds and i was a bit angry that day
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 3:39:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ConfederatemummyAR15: My friends regularly shoot Wolf ammo through their Mini-14s, SL8-1's, and .223 chambered AK's and they generally stay clean as a whistle.
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Bullshit. And that's all I've got to say about that. Hoppy
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 8:28:52 PM EDT
actually i had a ranger than ran on anything. any grade gas and e-85. you seem all the time and don't know it. when you look at the tailget look for a funky symbol next the ford blue oval.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 1:07:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/8/2003 2:37:37 AM EDT by ConfederatemummyAR15]
You are missing the point. THE POINT IS the reason wolf dirties up an AR more quickly than other rifles is because of the DESIGN of the AR15. Im not saying Wolf is Gods gift to ammo, or that it's failure proof. And call it bullshit all you want, but my buddies are always laughing at me at the end of the day when trying to scape all the goop out of my AR, when all they have to do is punch their bores and wipes down thoughly. AND I HAVE TO DO THIS REGARDLESS OF WHAT TYPE OF AMMO I USE.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 2:23:51 AM EDT
I can fire my AR all day long with M193 and never have a problem. I do the same, with Wolf, and i constantly have problems after the first few mags. Maybe you are missing the point, troll. WOLF AMMO IS FILTHY. FILTHYNESS CAUSES JAMS. it can therefore be truthfully said that the problem here is WOLF ammo.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 2:36:28 AM EDT
Hey buddy, you can stick your unwaranted insults up your ass. It justs shows how god damned low your IQ is. I find it funny that when people can't intelligently argue their point, they start spouting verbal insults like chest beating ape's, throwing their own feces at others. The problem here is that some of you are so god-damned loyal to a certain gun, it's blinding you to it's faults. And thats just the raw facts. I have owned multiple AR15's, and I think they are good guns, but the reason they get dirty IS A DESIGN FLAW. At the time it was not thought that this would be a "flaw" but is has turned out to be in a major way. Get over it. And as for Wolf, ive fire thousands of rounds of it with minimal problems, and for the very few fte's and ftf's I may get, the money i save plinking with it is well worth it.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 3:00:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/8/2003 3:05:56 AM EDT by NAM]
You need to take your own advice troll. I am not goign to sink to your level, but will give you some insight. I never liked the AR from the start. Price, Design....never appealed to me. I got an AR because of the versatility and the avaialbility of parts. That's all. THe argument here seems to be over Wolf ammo. Wolf ammo IS FILTHY. Wolf ammo is for AK's. IT's a known fact that the AK has looser tolerances than the AR. The AR is also inherently more accurate because of that. Reguardless, Wolf ammo still majorly craps up my Ak. IT's the loose tolerances in the AK that prevents jamming. Use half decent ammo, and it's a non-issue. I can fire my Mini-14 or AR all day with M193 and never have a single problem. Fire wolf, and the problems never cease. IT's not the rifle that's flawed, it's the ammo. Buy ammo from the country of the rifle's origin. Ammerican ammo for an american rifle. Russian ammo for a russian rifle. Stick to that rule, and you will have very few problems.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 4:21:16 AM EDT
I own both AR's and an AK. I shoot wolf from the AK, and have shot it without problems from an AR. The AK gets filthy, but keeps running (shoots about 8 moa) due to loose tolerances. What I don't get is in another post you said the reason you were getting away from AR's was that you couldn't afford ammo (well, you eventually admitted that). [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=159150&w=myTopicPop[/url] Maybe it's just that you are pissed that good ammo costs more than crappy ammo.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 5:13:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/8/2003 12:34:10 PM EDT by EdAvilaSr]
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 8:29:07 AM EDT
...... but the reason they get dirty IS A DESIGN FLAW.
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....uhmmmm......Maybe you better check into the history of the development of this weapon. The weapon was designed for use with 5.56mmx45mm ammo loaded with [b]IMR[/b] powder. IMR= Improved Military Rifle. I don't feed my AR's Wolf for the same reason I don't put 87 octane in my Corvette.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 8:48:31 AM EDT
I have shot about 300 rounds of wolf in my AR. No problems here. I dont normally use it though.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 2:57:02 PM EDT
Ok everyone, Stop Crying Wolf ! If you don't like it don't buy it, if you like it use it. I have several AR's I don't use wolf in them anymore, but will use it in my mini's and my bushmaster because they eat it with no problems. It's simple what works in one gun doesn't always work in another. I have a 44 mag that seems to only like 265gr loaded full to be accurate does that mean the gun is crap or all the other ammo is crap, no it's just more particular on what works and I do think AR's are more particular to what they like. I also think everyone wants to air their dirty laundry. T o those people who bitch about others with with non AR's get a life there's more to guns than AR's it's not the one I would bet my life with. I assume those who bitch about dirty ammo don't or have never used .22's in their life or if you did you probably threw it away after shooting a brick of ammo. I have shot bricks upon bricks of ammo and I clean them if they need it, it's that simple. It's cheap ammo, let me repaet that "IT'S CHEAP AMMO" take it for whats it's worth. Just stop crying wolf !
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 2:57:12 PM EDT
its your rifles then. i fired 140 rounds of wolf friday night and another 100 of barnaul. no problems at all. rifle functions fine. only extra crap in the action i notice is the primer sealant flaked off into the action. easilly cleaned with fp-10 and gummout. i have fired 200 rounds of wolf and almost 300 of barnaul without any ANY functioning problems. with so many other ar-15 users shooting this ammo WITHOUT problems you need to be looking at your ar and finding out whats diffrent than theirs. chrome chamber? 223 or 5.56? lube? mags? barrel length? mine: colt sp1 barrel chrome lined 1-12 inch twist 5.56 mm chamber i use firepower fp-10 and i use a danco #60 o-ring on my extractor spring.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 4:21:27 PM EDT
I refuse to further waste my type on this thread. I have laid out the facts and they were not accepted. Thats the most I can do.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 4:27:02 PM EDT
Your wrong DARTH, i stated in my post above that my bushmaster has fed 8800 rounds of wolf, 300-400 rounds a trip. i had my first stuck case 2 days ago, the rifle started with a clean chamber and 100 rounds in it stuck a case. the rounds in question were at the bottom of the ammo can(the last of the 8th case). the chamber had a white powder in it, not typical fouling. i took the same rifle up yesterday and fed wolf from a new case of 1000 and had no problems, wasnt the rifle DARTH. i will continure to shoot wolf through my ARs since there was no damage. WHAT THE HELL WAS THE WHITE POWDER? i emailed WOLF that question and im waiting to see if they answer me back.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 7:24:44 PM EDT
Ummmm, not to point fingers but isn't this the fellow that is saying "Good-bye" to AR15s? I'll leave it at that. -REAPER2502
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 8:09:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By REAPER2502: Ummmm, not to point fingers but isn't this the fellow that is saying "Good-bye" to AR15s? I'll leave it at that. -REAPER2502
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lol....should we be that lucky. Confederatemummy, Facts are exactly that; truthful, provable statements. You confuse your opinion with facts.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 9:12:04 PM EDT
I would rather throw rocks down range while yelling Bang Bang Bang....
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 1:13:14 PM EDT
This seems to be one of those circular chicken or egg type arguments. The real point is this: which came first, AR-15 or Wolf .223 ammo. If the gun came first and wolf produced ammo for it, then problems are with the ammo since it has problems functioning in what it was designed to function in. If the Wolf ammo came first and the military designed a gun to use that ammo specifically, but it has problems then the fault is with the gun design since it is failing its purpose. It seems clear that Wolf designed ammo that it said would be appropriate for the AR-15. It has problems on occasion. I bought some Greek ammo and had major problems with it. I didn't blame that on the gun. Hope this makes the whole thing clear as mud
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 7:20:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jackgun: If you don't like it don't buy it, if you like it use it.
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'nuff said.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 7:42:44 PM EDT
I've went through about 5000 rounds of Wolf in 2 Colt AR's with the only problem being 1 round with a bad primer. Wolf is cheap practice ammo, but it is dirty. Black Hills for accuracy, Wolf for plinking.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 2:52:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ConfederatemummyAR15: I constantly see people bitching about wolf being "dirty" ammo. Well, thats Eugene Stoner's fault, not the fault of the Wolf ammunition company. My friends regularly shoot Wolf ammo through their Mini-14s, SL8-1's, and .223 chambered AK's and they generally stay clean as a whistle. If you don't like the grime, buy different ammo or buy a different gun, and quit your bitching [stick] Okay, that is just plain stupid. Exactly what magical transformation occurs inside an AR-15 with Wolf ammo that does not happen with other types of guns? I have seen Wolf shot through an AK. There isn't anything clean about it. With that in mind, the issues of clean and dirty ammo are amusing. I don't pay much attention to the issue unless shooting less than 100 rounds. With that few rounds, cleaner ammo will leave a cleaner gun. After 300 rounds, I don't care what ammo you are using, the gun is dirty. I don't particularly feel Wolf is significantly dirtier ammo at all, but it does have a smell that is pretty terrible. [url]http://www.wolfammo.com/LOGO_CLR.jpg[/url] Long live the cheapness!
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Link Posted: 6/11/2003 9:26:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By trapguy: I have to agree with chaos, mine will shoot it ok but its way underloaded and the best groups i can get are about 8 inches at 100 yards.
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Wow, that's pretty bad. Even my wife can get 3 to 4 inch groups with Wolf at a 100 yards.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 11:00:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By woodenword:
Originally Posted By trapguy: I have to agree with chaos, mine will shoot it ok but its way underloaded and the best groups i can get are about 8 inches at 100 yards.
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Wow, that's pretty bad. Even my wife can get 3 to 4 inch groups with Wolf at a 100 yards.
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Maybe she is a better marksman than ME! All of my guns puke this stuff all over the target. I guess I just can't shoot. Thanks for clearing that one up for me.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 5:16:54 AM EDT
I get better than an inch groups with Wolf. Of course I've got to shoot 30 rounds, but there's usually a couple that are within an inch of each other. Some are even closer (those are sub-moa). Hoppy
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 7:07:36 PM EDT
WHOA HOSS! i wasn't referin to yer rifle in my last post! shit 8k+ rounds and you FINALLY had a jam that ain't the rifles fault! hell thats better reliablity than my Ak! (2 jams last few boxes of a a case of 70 grn uly weak powder charge bolt carrier short stroked) now the white powder thats a mystery. laquaer? maybe/ calcuam carbonite? maybe. shit in your barrel? maybe. i wonder if perhaps it was an older case of wolf? was there any head stamp info on it pertaining to date?
Originally Posted By gootmacher: Your wrong DARTH, i stated in my post above that my bushmaster has fed 8800 rounds of wolf, 300-400 rounds a trip. i had my first stuck case 2 days ago, the rifle started with a clean chamber and 100 rounds in it stuck a case. the rounds in question were at the bottom of the ammo can(the last of the 8th case). the chamber had a white powder in it, not typical fouling. i took the same rifle up yesterday and fed wolf from a new case of 1000 and had no problems, wasnt the rifle DARTH. i will continure to shoot wolf through my ARs since there was no damage. WHAT THE HELL WAS THE WHITE POWDER? i emailed WOLF that question and im waiting to see if they answer me back.
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