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Page AR-15 » Lights and Lasers
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 4/28/2003 9:15:58 PM EDT
I was looking at Vital-2 ads and saw a few $1895 ads that were on Ebay last week and a $2495 ad on gunsamerica.com
and then found a $3995 ad at another site

ARE THESE PEOPLE CRAZY?    What would you pay for this?

I see prices that are really high but I don't know if those are selling at these prices- it seems like they might be just sitting on shelves collecting dust

51 people looked and so far no-one would pay anything for one- maybe my hypothesis was correct?  If somebody left a message it might be a little more helpful.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 10:06:48 AM EDT

The VITAL® is an easy to mount, quick-to-zero infrared laser aiming light with unique capabilities and characteristics. VITAL's beam intensity and projection mode may be selected by the user. The beam's intensity may be adjusted to best suit the lighting condition, target contrast and range. The projected beam may be selected as steady, fast or slow pulsing modes. The selectable two-position CQB illuminator provides short-range (50 meters) covert augmenting light for night vision operations in extremely dark environments.


VITAL®, throw lever mount, local control switch, AA batteries (2), operator's manual, remote control switch with 14" flexible cable, soft case. VITAL-100 only: blue eye safe local and remote control switch are included

1000meter range
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 2:11:20 PM EDT

Tactically speaking, to fully utilize an IR laser you will need a $3500 - $4500 Night Vision setup and a very effective flash suppressor (i.e. silencer).

Perhaps you will get more responses if you rephrase your question;

Q: ‘is a IR laser aimer worth X$’s?’

A: “Whats it worth” is always a bullshit question. I won’t pay a dime for your bronze baby shoes but to you they may be priceless. As to the laser most cost no more than a $100 to $300 to produce and sell to qualified purchasers for under $800.

Q: ‘what will spending Y$’s on a IR laser aimer buy me?’

A: The ability to actively designate and engage targets while wearing head mounted NV.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 9:01:50 PM EDT
I was really asking to see what you would pay.

IE: For me I saw paq4c's for sale for $1800  and to me they were worth $600 at most.

Now I think the VITAL is a superior unit when compared to the paq4c. I think they are worth at least $1000.

Link Posted: 5/2/2003 10:04:52 AM EDT
SavySurvior had Russian units for $350, he's since dropped them and I've seen them for $300 since.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 12:42:30 PM EDT
I have bought used, even broken PAQ-4Cs for far more than I think they're worth, because I knew that I would have no trouble re-selling them for even more. The answer to your question is, yes, some people actually do pay these kind of prices. The most I've sold a PAQ-4 for in the past was two grand, and it was a pretty beat-up, but working, unit. IMHO, it's worth $300-400 at the most, the construction of it does not impress me.

I guess if I had money to burn I'd pay $1900 for the Vital-2, it does look much better made. But I've gotta say that I like the Belarussian-made Corsak 16-I which I own (and have also sold) much more than the PAQ-4C in almost every respect, and you can buy quite a few of them for the going price of a PAQ-4C.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 1:09:10 PM EDT
If you use NODs in a helmet mount you HAVE to use an IR laser (prperly boresighted and zeroed) to hit anything.  I'd say they are worth every penny with the exception of the AN/PAQ-4, which will break if you give it a good smack.  

I use helmet mounted AN/PVS-14s and an AN/PEQ-2A on the top rail of my RAS - the combo works extremely well.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 3:45:04 PM EDT
I have never gotten to use one that is zeroed- I've used a lot of Paq4's that were never zeroed.  There is still quite an advantage to an IR laser (and I could see it even without a zeroed laser-

NV riflescopes are primarily defensive or fixed position offensive (as you cannot move well looking through the sight)

NV goggles are more offensive as you can observe where your weapon is not "tracking" and you can use a pistol a well mounted with a IR laser. They also afford far greater and more natural movement (walking with PVS 14's is natural as opposed to moveing using 7B's or a rifle scope which is more of a learned skill)

[b]For me the big difference is I could use one pair of pvs-14's with every weapon I own if the weapons were mounting the lasers. as opposed to having to buy several expensive weapon sights[/b]
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 8:51:36 PM EDT
"Tactically speaking, to fully utilize an IR laser you will need a $3500 - $4500 Night Vision setup and a very effective flash suppressor (i.e. silencer). "

[b]Not totally true (the regular GI FH on a 20inch M-16 using GI issue 62grain Winchester ammo) works just fine.  The flash is a blue flame about the size of a quarter.  And using PVS 14's I didn't notice a flash when I fired.[/b]

Link Posted: 5/5/2003 9:09:37 PM EDT

I'll rephrase the question

[b]ARE THESE WORTH $880??? shipped[/b]

View Quote

OK, now you got my attention.

Are you saying that you may have some for sale at $880, shipped? Or are you saying that you are considering buying one at that price?

First off, are we talking about the Vital, PAQ-4C, PEQ-2???

I am interested, and depending on what model you are speaking of, I'd say YES, they may be worth that price...

Link Posted: 5/6/2003 1:02:21 PM EDT
No I was planning on buying some for that but I guess now the seller can't get them (the government is investigating based on Ebay sales of NVEC lasers.) They have stopped shipment of the orders including (I guess) mine.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 10:04:58 AM EDT
The Vital might look nice but try using it for a while under conbat conditions. it is truely commercial and not military rugged. it is made by a small company called Night Vision equipment.
Non are worth the 2 to 3K they are asking but the Vital has not even been adopted by the military. only a few thousand exist over the past few years and military never really liked it enough to adopt it over the 4c or 2a.

Page AR-15 » Lights and Lasers
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
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