Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 8/30/2004 7:04:51 PM EST
I'm really wanting to get an IR illuminator and laser.

I use a peq2 at work and love the danm things.

I'm wondering if there is anyway to get one legally??

Has anyone improvised anything? Tryed IR covers over surefires?? or over visable lasers??

Every company I call say its illegal to buy one or even own one personally. It doesnt seem so from seeing stuff here on this sight there seems to be a few or very few floating around legally.

Can you get IR diods legally?? Can you buy a laser devices DBAL and just change the diods out??
If you can get them legally where do you get them??



Any help would be great thanks

I cant wait to get nods and IR lasers and destroy some hog at night in south TX.

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 7:07:10 PM EST
oh yea are there any other counties you can buy them in with out any hassels??

and would it be legal to bring one back??

Thanks
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 7:22:53 PM EST
I'm not really familiar with the subject, but I just googled your question and found this link . . .


http://www.store.yahoo.com/opsgear/wemopeli.html


. . . . it could be of help.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 7:37:36 PM EST
When I looked into it, after mucho checking, I came to understand.....

They are not illegal to buy or own.

Because they are invisible, they are a public hazard. For some reason they are covered under the FDA. The FDA cut a deal with manufacturers that they not sell to the general public. So they dont.

You can buy them third party, just be wary of stolen .gov equipment. iirc, there is a guy who has a good reputation, but his name, along with today's activities escape me.

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 9:45:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 5:30:21 AM EST by eodinert]

Originally Posted By CavVet:
When I looked into it, after mucho checking, I came to understand.....

They are not illegal to buy or own.



They are legal to own. 21 CFR governs things that emit radiation, including laser radiation, and the marking, safety features and sale thereof.

You may own them, but IR lasers cannot be manufactured for sale without an indicator light to show when the device is on, except for military and police. If you search, you will find a russian 'corsak' IR laser that is sold in this country in such a configuration.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 5:32:03 PM EST
WOW Im amazed that no one on here has figured this out and passed the word. If its not illegal and is just every companies policy to keep the FDA off there back then I'm surprised no one has got this nut cracked.

grinch
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:56:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By grinch8492:
WOW Im amazed that no one on here has figured this out and passed the word. If its not illegal and is just every companies policy to keep the FDA off there back then I'm surprised no one has got this nut cracked.
grinch



I'd bet a few cracked the nut... The CFR is law, though, so I can understand why they don't want to stir up the dot gov.

Link Posted: 9/3/2004 7:42:19 AM EST
as much stuff you can find here that really does break the law?? like people selling info on lightning links or DIAS??

That stuff is illegal but you can find it for "informational perposes"

I mean what is the point of full auto anyway?? I'm in the military and have never seen the need for it on the riflemans weapon only the SAWS.

the laser dose have limited use but still has alot more then full auto. I'm wanting to stalk and hunt pigs at night in south texas where there are no laws against this cuz they are so bad ranchers are hireing helos to hunt then cuz there crops are getting destroyed.

Then maybe get a class 3 and get a suppressor so you can get more in one sitting in one location.


I'm still supprised the info isnt openly available.

or at least improvised versions.

Grinch
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:13:32 PM EST
Don't think I've seen anything here that really does break the law, but then again I've only been lurking for a couple of years...

What uou seek is readliy available to regular people, just not in the form of a finished product. The components of an IR aiming device are simply a housing, a laser diode module, a battery, and a switch. The housing may have adjustments to zero the diode module. You can buy a visible laser, remove the diode module, and replace it with an IR module. If you are really into tinkering, you can assemble your own module with lenses that allow either an illumination device or a pinpoint aming laser. Be warned though, IR is not visible. So when you run out and buy that 1Watt diode module, power it up, and look to see if anything is coming out of that tiny hole you'll go blind without seeing what hit you. Kinda neat huh?

Have you considered a Surefire M1 illuminator? It is a small IR flashlight that works very well with night vision and since it is not a laser, you won't go blind, or even get hairy palms.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 7:46:36 AM EST
OK so you buy a visable laser modle and change the diode. So now where do you get the Diode?? I havent found anyone that will sell that to the public either?? and can you get one that will work in the same device you got?? I figure its got to have the same size and shape of diode as the one your removing as well as have enough power to go a couple hundered yards.

Any one got a lead on this??

As far as blinding anyone with an IR laser-------B.S. just try it!! You may give them a headache but thats it. They will not see the laser but there eyes will start to burn and they will look away before any real damage is done.

I think I might have seen the surefire you talk about. Does it go that far?? I'm pretty sure I've used it while driving hummvees at night but we only really used it to about 10 or 20 yards out in rough terrain.

I've been comming to this board for about 5 yrs now I dont come nearly as much anymore but remeber pictures and drawing or DIAS and lightning links ect.. and people selling plans but it has been a long time. There probably in jail LOL I nkow the ATF and FBI surf this sight daily and the sight helps then out too.

Grinch
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 9:15:38 AM EST
Finding a module that matches your housing is the hard part. Most modules come in standard sizes, like a 1/2" barrel, that won't work very well in say, an MR2 housing. Some companies that make finished products also make IR models available for LE/Military. That means they have modules. Whether they also sell the modules as well as finished products takes a little research. Case in point: Laser Devices makes some awesome products. They also sell modules that plug right into those products. It is likely they won't sell these to just anyone who calls but they are not regulated when it comes to marketing standalone modules and components.

Same goes for other companies. How do you think they build finished products? Many of them do not make their own modules. They simply buy them off the shelf or someone is building a custom module for them. All companies that make diode modules work with OEM manufacturers but anyone can become a "company". They just aren't acclimated to dealing with the general public. So, you call them and make a sales contact. Know exactly what you need and get a couple of samples for your prototype product.

As for specs, the laser diode module is a complete unit. It consists of an electronics circuitry that provides precise current to the diode, the laser diode itself, a pair of wires or a coil spring for interfacing with a battery, a lense system that focuses the beam, and a body that holds everything together. They are all rated for various wavelengths, power output, and voltage input. They also come in various sizes and shapes. You are probably looking for a 850nm, 20mW, 3 volt module that is focused for low divergence, or in other words, a tight beam. These are available from several places. Google for "laser diode module" and get a zillion hits. Narrow the search down to 850 n, infrared, or whatever it is you want.

Last word on lasers and power. Bright light does cause discomfort and you'll look away. An unfocused laser pulsing at the right frequency would probably cause a headache. A focused, high power, IR laser can burn a hole in tissue faster than you can blink. If that tissue happens to be your optic nerve I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that eyeball is now completely worthless. So, never look into a laser, regardless if it's "eye safe". Never observe a laser through a scope, nods are ok. And consider getting goggles or lenses that filter out wavelengths you're working with. These are not toys for tots.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 7:21:29 AM EST
Here you go, http://www.nvginc.com
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 11:52:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/5/2004 12:12:08 PM EST by Victor]

Originally Posted By grinch8492:
I think I might have seen the surefire you talk about. Does it go that far?? I'm pretty sure I've used it while driving hummvees at night but we only really used it to about 10 or 20 yards out in rough terrain.
Grinch



The M1 Illuminator is a great CQB perimeter type work light. Its true effective range is only out to 65m tops. SureFire claims the illuminator will go out to 100m, but in my experiences, 65m seemed max for this unit. Good coyote kill light BTW!...AND HOGS I'm sure!

Nice thread BTW, TAGGED.

Vic

Edited for Grinche's first Post....
Also need to ask yourself what REAL ranges due you need? If 100m and in are your requirment, the SF M1 will work out to the above 65m or so ranges. You CAN use a IR cover over a high power SF BUT it's not as effective as a dedicated IR light/laser, there will be some light leak. You also have the option of using a visable laser with your NVD's as well, they will work very effective as an IR unit, but of course they can be seen with the naked eye. The plus side of the house is they are MUCH easier AND cheaper to obtain. If budget is not too much of a concern, you can always opt out for a new thermal imaging rifle scope...Heck with all the laser stuff with one of these out to 400m. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 12:24:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By grinch8492:

As far as blinding anyone with an IR laser-------B.S. just try it!! You may give them a headache but thats it. They will not see the laser but there eyes will start to burn and they will look away before any real damage is done.




This is from the LSSO (Laser Systems Safety Officers) class I use to instruct/teach years ago


Dr. C. David Decker, a highly skilled laser scientist, was partially blinded by the "reflection" of a relatively weak laser beam. He described the accident as follows:

When the beam struck my eye, I heard a distinct popping sound, caused by a laser induced explosion at the back of my eyeball. My vision was obscured almost immediately by streams of blood floating in the vitreous humor, and by what appeared to be particulate matter suspended in the vitreous humor. It was like viewing the world through a round fishbowl full of glycerol into which a quart of blood and a handful of black pepper had been partially mixed. There was local pain within a few minutes of the accident, but it did not become excruciating. The most immediate response after such an accident is short. As a Vietnam War Veteran, I have seen several terrible scenes of human carnage, but none affected me more than viewing the world through my blood filled eyeball. In the aftermath of the accident, I went into shock, as is typical in personal injury accidents.

Link Posted: 9/5/2004 12:58:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/5/2004 12:59:37 PM EST by Victor]

Originally Posted By STLRN:

Originally Posted By grinch8492:

As far as blinding anyone with an IR laser-------B.S. just try it!! You may give them a headache but thats it. They will not see the laser but there eyes will start to burn and they will look away before any real damage is done.




This is from the LSSO (Laser Systems Safety Officers) class I use to instruct/teach years ago


Dr. C. David Decker, a highly skilled laser scientist, was partially blinded by the "reflection" of a relatively weak laser beam. He described the accident as follows:

When the beam struck my eye, I heard a distinct popping sound, caused by a laser induced explosion at the back of my eyeball. My vision was obscured almost immediately by streams of blood floating in the vitreous humor, and by what appeared to be particulate matter suspended in the vitreous humor. It was like viewing the world through a round fishbowl full of glycerol into which a quart of blood and a handful of black pepper had been partially mixed. There was local pain within a few minutes of the accident, but it did not become excruciating. The most immediate response after such an accident is short. As a Vietnam War Veteran, I have seen several terrible scenes of human carnage, but none affected me more than viewing the world through my blood filled eyeball. In the aftermath of the accident, I went into shock, as is typical in personal injury accidents.




I guess the rumors I'm hearing from the boys in the "sandbox" engaged in "Psyc-Ops" using IR lasers to show the fellow bad guys that allah has cursed them when they see one of their fellow terrorist rolling on the ground in pain without any holes....Maybe not be a rumor after all! Didn't think it was anyway.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 11:42:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 11:54:28 AM EST by Victor]
Was browsing a few things and I came across this.....
66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:i2wGvdGGTpIJ:www.calguard.ca.gov/40avn/download/flightfax/9802ff.pdf+GCP-1+Technical+Manual&hl=en

chppm-www.apgea.army.mil/laser/Publications/MIL828/828a.pdf

The top URL goes over a few tests and safety issues of some current IR devices. A bit dated, but the material is still very relevant.

The bottom has some saftey issues, but an in depth how-to in applying lasers. Good reading.

Vic
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:31:52 PM EST
A laser safety FAQ here would be a pretty good idea.

Here's some more laser info- Sam's Laser FAQ

Best regards,
tumbleweed
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 2:19:25 AM EST
From what i've heard, the PEQ-2 is kept out of civvie hands because it's not eye safe (read powerful as hell....) and there's no indicator...

limited experience though

-Roth
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 11:33:22 AM EST
you can by diodes from laser devices directly. just havent had the gumption to buy an otal an replace the visible diode to an ir diode. if anyone has any successs let us know.



Link Posted: 9/11/2004 8:20:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By NUCdt04:
From what i've heard, the PEQ-2 is kept out of civvie hands because it's not eye safe (read powerful as hell....) and there's no indicator...

limited experience though

-Roth



Hi Roth,

THe PEQ's do have indicators (green) on top of the unit. Hope this helps.

Vic
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:56:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By Victor:

Originally Posted By NUCdt04:
From what i've heard, the PEQ-2 is kept out of civvie hands because it's not eye safe (read powerful as hell....) and there's no indicator...

limited experience though

-Roth



Hi Roth,

THe PEQ's do have indicators (green) on top of the unit. Hope this helps.

Vic



Are you refering to the PEQ-2 or PEQ-4? The 2 doesn't have any and the 4 has 2 green diodes that blink when the item is turned on, but they are in a place that if you are holding it your hand covers the lights.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 12:42:52 PM EST
I don't remember them having any indicator lights- I could of course be wrong though.... I'll check next time I get my hands on one

-Roth
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:54:12 AM EST
I dont think the old ones had an indicator light but the new ones do. PEQ2 that is
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:17:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 10:18:17 AM EST by Victor]

Originally Posted By STLRN:

Originally Posted By Victor:

Originally Posted By NUCdt04:
From what i've heard, the PEQ-2 is kept out of civvie hands because it's not eye safe (read powerful as hell....) and there's no indicator...

limited experience though

-Roth



Hi Roth,

THe PEQ's do have indicators (green) on top of the unit. Hope this helps.

Vic



Are you refering to the PEQ-2 or PEQ-4? The 2 doesn't have any and the 4 has 2 green diodes that blink when the item is turned on, but they are in a place that if you are holding it your hand covers the lights.



Well, I am holding my PEQ-2A right now...And is sure looks green to me!

Vic
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:21:07 AM EST
I looked at my 45 PEQ-2As the other day and none of them had them. The only safety they had was the blue, war time power safety key.

When did they start added them and does a green light cause a bloom in your goggles? Also does it light up only when you turn it on or when the unit is turned on? Potentially causing a compromising light
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:36:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 11:15:26 AM EST by Victor]

Originally Posted By STLRN:
I looked at my 45 PEQ-2As the other day and none of them had them. The only safety they had was the blue, war time power safety key.

When did they start added them and does a green light cause a bloom in your goggles? Also does it light up only when you turn it on or when the unit is turned on? Potentially causing a compromising light



I guess I will get specific..... My PEQ-2A has a green LED diode light that is located directly next to the safety block in the recessed cavity. To add more detail....My tech manual states on page 4-6...."A green LED (Figure 4.2.3) is incorperated into the body of the AN/PEQ-2A to indicate that the AN/PEQ-2A is on. Whenever the AN/PEQ-2A is activated the green LED will light and will stay lit until the unit is turned off."...

I have never seen the LED to cause blooming. It is very dim and recessed into the switch block so know one can see it except the user.

Hope this helps.

Vic

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:16:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 3:37:53 AM EST by Ahab]
Interesting..
Good deal! Think these fell off a truck somewhere?

Edit: Oops! The ad is gone now.. Hope someone got their $1000 PEQ-2A!
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 5:15:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 5:15:48 AM EST by Victor]

Originally Posted By Ahab:
Interesting..
Good deal! Think these fell off a truck somewhere?

Edit: Oops! The ad is gone now.. Hope someone got their $1000 PEQ-2A!



The units for sale had problems with either the AZ and EL adjustments, probably why soooo cheap.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 10:31:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By Victor:

Originally Posted By STLRN:
I looked at my 45 PEQ-2As the other day and none of them had them. The only safety they had was the blue, war time power safety key.

When did they start added them and does a green light cause a bloom in your goggles? Also does it light up only when you turn it on or when the unit is turned on? Potentially causing a compromising light



I guess I will get specific..... My PEQ-2A has a green LED diode light that is located directly next to the safety block in the recessed cavity. To add more detail....My tech manual states on page 4-6...."A green LED (Figure 4.2.3) is incorperated into the body of the AN/PEQ-2A to indicate that the AN/PEQ-2A is on. Whenever the AN/PEQ-2A is activated the green LED will light and will stay lit until the unit is turned off."...

I have never seen the LED to cause blooming. It is very dim and recessed into the switch block so know one can see it except the user.

Hope this helps.

Vic




Hi,

Found out a bit more info in regards to the PEQ-2A's. Some of the PEQ-2's out there are FDA approved which WILL have the avtivate light I have described. Some dedicated military versions (whom are exempt) do not have this on light. There are NO differences in power between the units, just a sticker and a light for the FDA released versions. Hope this explains a bit of the confusion.

Vic
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 2:10:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By Victor:
There are NO differences in power between the units, just a sticker and a light for the FDA released versions



Does this meen that they make an FDA appoved version that can be sold to use civilians?
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 4:07:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By Luckystiff:

Originally Posted By Victor:
There are NO differences in power between the units, just a sticker and a light for the FDA released versions



Does this meen that they make an FDA appoved version that can be sold to use civilians?



No, it means they are for sale to LE Dept's, DOJ, ATF, etc....Not even to individual officers, but drop ship only to the actual Department. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 8:23:24 PM EST
..but that's a policy, not a law. Not that it matters much, we still can't buy them.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 5:46:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2004 5:51:28 AM EST by Victor]

Originally Posted By eodinert:
..but that's a policy, not a law. Not that it matters much, we still can't buy them.



Yeppers, Insights Technology policy as far as I know...Each company has to set up different requirements (approvals) to the FDA for different type departments. I know NVEC for one (makers of the Atilla, Vital, etc) do NOT sell to any LE Dept's. Not that they cannot, but they never submitted the appropriate forms/approvals to the FDA for this aspect of sales. They say it is a very long process to get different agencies approved for sale and are much too busy with our military folk. Hope this explains a bit more.
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 4:12:31 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 5:18:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 5:22:53 PM EST by TopCrest]
If anybody's interested, I'm trying to get a group buy together on Insight M6s w/IR laser. Looks like less than 5 are available, trying to confirm that now.

Link Posted: 9/29/2004 3:49:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 1:57:48 PM EST by Funtogun]
I sold the PEQ....thanks EE
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 9:12:20 PM EST
Ii'm interested in an M6 with an IR.
Top Top