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Posted: 8/6/2017 12:14:00 PM EDT
I have a RRA 16" custom 9mm carbine. It's a lot of fun to shoot, but I was disappointed in the recoil and muzzle rise. (I compete in USPSA PCC and steel challenge.) It was partially my mistake in not understand in the direct blow back system. So the first thing I did was...

- Get a compensator. (It did very little, but it did do some.)
The next thing I did (to a small degree) and plan on doing is...
- Experimenting with light hand loads with a lighter buffer (RRA buffer is 5 and a half ounces) light loads with OEM buffer makes for a slow/sluggish bolt)
- Experimenting with heavy hand load with a heavy buffer (violent slam of bolt in the tube with hot loads and OEM buffer) heavy hand loads would allow me to reach out a little further in distance and not have so much bullet drop.

So for my main question...
Does anyone have any real world experience or 2nd hand experience with the hydraulic buffer or aktive buffer from Blitzkrieg (https://www.blitzkriegcomponents.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1823)
or
the adjustable buffer system from Taacom?
(https://taccom3g.com/product/taccom-pcc-adjustable-buffer-system/)
or
should I just experiment with different buffer weights for my PCC?

* All three buffers are expensive, but if they truly make a noticeable difference than I'm willing to spend the money.

Thanks for your feedback!
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 12:46:27 PM EDT
[#1]
There is a very discussion on these buffer set ups, here:  Buffer Thread

I have personally started out with a Heavy Buffers Q buffer. Then I went to the JP SCS. I now have a Taccom adjustable buffer with a JP .223 rifle length spring. It works well and the rig has a softer recoil impulse and it shoots much "flatter" (less sight movement). This rig uses a JP GMR-13 complete upper.

I have another rig using the Blitzkrieg hydraulic buffer with a JP .308 carbine spring. This rig shoots SUPER flat and very soft recoil impulse. Highly recommend the Blitz.

To soften the recoil impulse you need to lessen the bolt travel and reciprocating mass...yes...counter to what we have been told in a blow back rig. Again...read the thread in the link above. Much knowledge there on this subject.

Here is a video of of myself and my friend shooting an indoor USPSA match with our PCC's. I am in the blue shirt. Our rigs are almost identical except mine has the Taccom buffer and my friend's rig has the Heavy buffers Q buffer. Look at the muzzle movement of the two rigs and judge for yourself.

USPSA VIDEO

 
NCPL USPSA Indoor match using PCC
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 1:08:46 PM EDT
[#2]
Nvm
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 3:08:20 PM EDT
[#3]
I started with the KVP 7.5 oz buffer and the KVP extra power spring, with a JP tac comp shooting 135g handloads...it had more muz rise than I had hoped.

Switched to the Blitzkrieg Hydraulic buffer and their polished .308 spring....it got better.

Switched to 115gr handloads, and it got a LOT better.

ETA: and it's still dead on @ 50y
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 5:20:57 PM EDT
[#4]
for USPSA determine your load first if you hand load....I don't change my powder setting and shoot a 130 power factor for Limited minor and a 156 for PCC... naturally the PCC pf can be brought down if desired

don't forget to calculate the entire mass of the bolt and buffer while you are experimenting... if you choose to shoot a rifle stock as I do (A1 length) the longer rifle buffers are easier to make inexpensive brass, steel, and lead shot weights to experiment with... even solid pour lead

visually check that your bolt is not impacting against the rear of the barrel with excessive spring and buffer mass to actually do damage

limit the total bolt travel to just pass the bolt catch

when you do your hydraulic vs buffer weight comparison, make the comparison with a good spherical red dot, and on a target at least 25m down range

FWIW with the 156 power factor loads my current buffer/bolt is around 22oz and uses a standard rifle spring... when compared to my Enidine hydraulic rifle buffer from my 3 gun rifle the weighted buffer actually produced less scope shake...identify the difference you seek as being reduction of recoil, or scope movement....

regards Les L747
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 11:48:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Great stuff! Thank you guys! I'll be in touch after I read over the threads and watch the videos.
Link Posted: 8/7/2017 4:52:27 PM EDT
[#6]
I've got a blitz in my 9mm pistol.  That was the only thing I really "splurged" on in my budget glock build.  Don't regret it at all and only bought one part, instead of trying a bunch.
Link Posted: 8/7/2017 8:11:37 PM EDT
[#7]
If your gun is working I wouldn't mess with it to much.  These guns can be finicky!
Link Posted: 8/7/2017 8:14:12 PM EDT
[#8]
I thought this was a completely different topic. About 6mm PPC ARs.

I guess PPC and PCC are different.
Link Posted: 8/8/2017 8:59:12 AM EDT
[#9]
It was a typo! I tried to change it. PCC is what is should have been.
Link Posted: 8/10/2017 1:10:29 PM EDT
[#10]
Here is my PCCO for Steel Challenge.  It has the Blitzkrieg hydraulic buffer and a JP AR-10 spring.  I shoot 115 gr FMJ bullets with 6.0 gr Hodgdon HS-6.  Not a wimpy load, maybe 1100 fps from a 16" barrel.  I do not notice the recoil at all.  I can shoot the 9mm carbine just as well as I shoot RFRO.  Some of my friends shoot 90 gr and 95 gr bullets running 800 to 900 fps.  You need a really light spring for those wimpy loads and I think you run the risk of feeding problems.

Link Posted: 8/11/2017 2:41:31 AM EDT
[#11]
Thanks for sharing. I've tried some hs-6 with my 45. It seemed to throw a bunch of unburnt powder out the pistol. I wonder if it had to do with the bigger casing. Anyways, I've been working with Titegroup. I'm looking to use 115 or 125 blue bullets if they work out well for me in both my competition pistol and my PCC. I've also tried power pistol almost loaded to max. Out of my 16" RRA I was chronoing 1,520 fps!.. So the consensus seems to be, get the hydraulic buffer!
Link Posted: 8/12/2017 6:52:27 PM EDT
[#12]
I played around with Power Pistol and 115 gr HAPs in my 16" carbine before settling on a load.

I averaged 1,486 fps with 6.5 grs, while a maximum load of 6.7 grs gave just 1,493 fps on average (RRA upper, Ballistic Advantage barrel).  I stayed with 6.5 grs as the accuracy was excellent and it runs great with an 11 oz extended length buffer.

----

I also played around with 90 gr XTPs and got velocities over 1600 fps, but I like the comparatively inexpensive HAP bullets.
Link Posted: 8/13/2017 10:51:53 AM EDT
[#13]
Do any of you guys have experience with Taacom's adjustable buffer system for the AR-9? I think it's about $80 as compared to the crazy price of $120-140 for the hydraulic buffer and spring.
Link Posted: 8/13/2017 10:15:25 PM EDT
[#14]
Where did you get an 11 oz buffer at? I can't find any online.
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 1:48:52 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Where did you get an 11 oz buffer at? I can't find any online.
View Quote
Having researched this significantly due to building a suppressed 9mm AR, you can get 11oz adjustable buffers from KAK. You can get 12oz buffers from heavybuffers.com.

Whether or not you actually need a heavy buffer depends entirely on the dynamics of your specific application.
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 4:52:03 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Do any of you guys have experience with Taacom's adjustable buffer system for the AR-9? I think it's about $80 as compared to the crazy price of $120-140 for the hydraulic buffer and spring.
View Quote
I have both....Taccom adjustable and two Blitzkrieg hydraulic Buffers.

I started with a Haeavy Buffers Q-buffer. Went to a JP SCS....better then the Q-buffer....it was shorter/flatter shooting then the Q-buffer.

Then I bought a Blitz....WOW! In my two rigs....both are based an Taccom ULW uppers...the recoil impulse is MUCh softer. The rigs shoot supper flat with very little sight movement. Double taps at speed are generally in the A zone on 20 yard USPSA metric targets.

I have a Taccom adjustable in my JP GMR-13 upper based rig. It is better...again....read flatter/softer....then the SCS but not as soft as the Blitz.

I highly recommend the Blitz hydro buffer.
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 7:20:18 PM EDT
[#17]
I too got great accuracy with 6.6 grains of power pistol, coming out at 1,490 fps with Berry 115 grain hollow-base bullets, which puts me at around a 170 pf... I'll be experimenting with blue bullets soon as they are much cheaper to shoot. I think power pistol will be my preferred powder for now.

I like the idea of a flatter shooting ar9, but I don't know if I could tame the recoil enough with a hot 16" carbine load even with a hydraulic buffers to be comparable to a 125-130 pf recoil load... any thoughts?

I did do the quarters idea in the back of the buffer tube and compared several times for recoil, muzzle rise and reliability. The quarter idea worked! Is it night and day, no. Is it noticeable, yes. Is it worth it for speed and USPSA, yes for sure.

Any additional info from you guys would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the info on the blitz buffer. I think I'll be spending the money for one.
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 8:20:44 PM EDT
[#18]
If you really want a flat shooting PCC you can shorten the bolt stroke by using a larger spacer, or you can use a wave spring as a spacer and as a secondary spring to soften things up even more.

When using spacers you can shorten the bolt stroke to the point where you just have enough bolt travel to eject the spent round and feed a new one. You will not be able to use the bolt hold open, but it will make for a VERY fast and soft shooting rig.

Lots of very good info on Buffers and recoil, here: Buffer information
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 8:44:16 PM EDT
[#19]
Yep, I did shorten the bolt stroke with the quarters. I'll check into the wave spring idea too. Thanks for the link.
Link Posted: 8/15/2017 2:00:19 PM EDT
[#20]
I'll chime in with my personal xp so take it for what it is.

I have tried quite a few things, variety of buffer weights, spacers, and springs in my colt pattern lower with 7.5" tube.

Quarters as spacers gave a softer felt recoil impulse vs just a spring (sprinco red) and in my case a heavy dedicated 9mm 8+ oz buffer.  The only problem was the charging handle was hard to pull back for some of my smaller folk friends, manly the chicks, and I was snapping bolt catches every other week.  I think the bolt catch issue was due to the preloaded tension the quarter spacers introduced, I mean that bolt would slam home with certain authority.  This issue would be moot tho if one were to remove the bolt catch/lrbho all together.  There are spacers that will sit flush so to speak without adding additional space but the felt recoil impulse of that setup with say a carbine length h3 buffer was much more than just the spring and extended length 9mm buffer.  So back in went the sprinco red and 8+ oz 9mm buffer, all was well, no more broken bc, but the darn thing still felt a little snappy with some movement down as the bolt closed

Nevertheless I enjoyed the pistol until my stamp arrived and my search began again to tame some of the felt recoil impulse.  I decided to wth and ordered up myself a BK hydraulic buffer.......it completely changed the felt recoil impulse of the rifle...much much softer and smoother as the bolt traveled rearward. I still felt like I was getting some downward movement on target as the bolt closed so I opted for a tubb .308 spring and I only regret now that I did not start with this setup in the beginning.  Cuz honestly I always kind of thought the hydraulic buffer was kinda gimmicky, I don't know or have xp with say the 5.56 version but for the 9mm version...in my 9wn xp...it is gold.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 8:24:49 AM EDT
[#21]
Question for you guys that have the hydraulic buffer...

I'm looking to make up two loads... a 125-130 power factor USPSA load and a hot zippy load (which yielded excellent accuracy). I'm using power pistol powder with a 115 grain berry jacketed hollow-base bullet and the 118 grain blue bullet.

Will the hydraulic buffer tame a hot load enough to be useable for USPSA? Will it be comparable to a tame load? Or should I experiment with a light load and the hydraulic buffer.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 9:31:43 AM EDT
[#22]
My go to USPSA rig uses a Blitzkrieg hydraulic buffer with a JP .308 carbine spring. I use 115gr bullets making 135pf. Carbine is sper flat shooting.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 4:57:49 PM EDT
[#23]
Should I use the quarters to take up the bolt travel with a hydraulic buffer?
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 9:04:30 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Should I use the quarters to take up the bolt travel with a hydraulic buffer?
View Quote
No, it is of an extended length, no need for a spacer
Link Posted: 8/31/2017 6:58:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Greetings,

No scientific study yet but a few months ago, I swapped out the initial buffer (Slash 9Q w/Wolf extra power spring) I built my 9mm carbine (DDLES Glock lower) with for a very old Endine Hydraulic buffer out of the parts box using the same spring. It *seems* to have a somewhat reduced impulse and quicker re-acquisition on the optic than before. I'm going to try to do some better comparisons with a shooting friend so I can get a "blind" opinion on the feel without him knowing which part is in at any given time. It's certainly not a "night to day" improvement, but does seem positive.

This (home brew) carbine is my primary HD firearm, so absolute reliability is the most important factor. Actually, I had done this swap last winter, but due to minimal shooting time with it, I reinstalled the Slash unit as it was known to be 100% reliable. This time around I've run about 400-600 rounds (various factory loads, mostly 115g) through with no issues. Interestingly, the LRBHO (2nd gen parts) on my old DDLES lower actually seems to work somewhat better with the hydro buffer. Previously, I'd have a failure once every 5-10 mags or so where it would not hold open after the last round. Since the buffer swap, it's been 100%. Not sure if that is significant yet with the current low round count. I'm guessing the carbine has had over 4000-6000 total rounds since the build.

Curious how my old Endine differs from the more current units some of you have mentioned. Any ideas? I'll report back after we have a chance to do some further, more serious testing. I think it still has a pretty harsh impulse and would like to minimize that within the absolute reliability parameter and not using specially tailored ammo. FYI, I don't shoot competition or reload.

Regards, Jim
Link Posted: 9/2/2017 11:28:47 AM EDT
[#26]
I have been reading here about buffers. I have a Blitz hydro buffer and the JP 308 spring. It is very hard to pull the charging handle back and sometimes it causes the trigger not to reset. I am using a mil spec buffer tube. Are you guys using the A5 buffer tube or a standard adj. Buffer tube? Thanks...
Link Posted: 9/2/2017 6:40:40 PM EDT
[#27]
What trigger are you using? I have three 9mm AR's all use carbine length buffer tubes. I use the BK with .308 carbine spring. They run 100%. As far ar hard to pull back...that is rather subjective. I work out 3-4 times a week and have no trouble charging any of my AR's.
Link Posted: 9/2/2017 9:06:19 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have been reading here about buffers. I have a Blitz hydro buffer and the JP 308 spring. It is very hard to pull the charging handle back and sometimes it causes the trigger not to reset. I am using a mil spec buffer tube. Are you guys using the A5 buffer tube or a standard adj. Buffer tube? Thanks...
View Quote
Standard mil-spec adj tube here.  Sucks about  your hiccups.

Maybe try different buffer spring? 
Ya I run a. 308 spring and it's no joke.

Not very scientific, just some observations.

My buddy had put his together about the same time as mine,  pre-upgrades. The upper receiver, buffer, spring and bbl were identical  The bolt, charging handle and buffer tube were of different mfgs.  We both noticed and agreed his felt much harder to pull back, and kind of gritty if that makes sense, even with a few drops of crisco.  After a bit though it started getting smoother

In his case it did not effect function, triggers are both drop in 3lb timneys and function 100%.  

Sorry couldn't be more help.
Link Posted: 9/2/2017 11:13:49 PM EDT
[#29]
I'm running a RRA two stage trigger. I put in a 308 carbine buffer with a stock carbine spring and it works great. I'm now out $155 for the Blitz hydro and the JP spring. Next I will buy an A5 buffer tube and see if the Blitz hydro set up will work. Thanks for the info....
Link Posted: 9/5/2017 11:48:29 AM EDT
[#30]
Finally got to the range this weekend with my 9mm AR and got to try the Blitzkrieg hydraulic buffer for the first time. I bought it based on positive reviews in this forum and I can say that the hype is true. One user described the recoil as comparable to the CZ Evo, and I can verify that this is true. I had my CZ Evo carbine with me and at one point fired the CZ and the AR back-to-back and the recoil seemed to be the same.

The last time I shot my 9mm AR I had used a 7.5 oz steel Kaw Precision buffer and the recoil did seem harsh. The Blitzkrieg buffer has significantly reduced the recoil and made shooting the 9mm AR fun (well even more fun since shooting is always fun). I was using a standard carbine buffer spring with mine. The only thing that seemed significant is that the gun was throwing the brass farther than my CZ and my 5.56 AR. Don't know if using a 308 buffer spring would change this, but I personally don't see a need to use the 308 spring.
Link Posted: 9/20/2017 9:24:31 PM EDT
[#31]
I finally pulled the trigger on the Blitz Hydraulic Buffer with 308 Rifle Spring based on the rave reviews. Hoping it makes a big difference. I'll be testing it soon on hot reloads and 130 PF reloads out of a pistol and Winchester USA White box ammo.
Link Posted: 9/21/2017 12:22:02 AM EDT
[#32]
The Tubb .308 flatwire spring made a big difference in my gun
Link Posted: 9/21/2017 8:27:35 PM EDT
[#33]
Components:
Blitzkreig hydraulic buffer & JP ground and polished AR10 rifle spring


Rifle:
RRA LAR-9 16" PCC customized to my likings


Ammo:
Winchester USA white box 115 grain FMJ


Range report:
I compared the oem setup with quarters at the back of the buffer tube vs the blitz and jp components. I did rapid fire, two shot succession and one shot reloads to check for functionality, recoil control and muzzle rise. All was good with no hiccups. The blitz and jp components worked as advertised and did reduced the recoil and muzzle flip, but it wasn't what I was expecting for the price I paid (but I guess that is a subjective question for many reasons). It did helped and it was noticeable, but it wasn't night and day like I was hoping. However, for someone like myself looking to shoot very fast with double tap accuracy it's good, it did work and this was only a one time range report. I am most definitely looking forward to seeing what it'll be like to shoot with a 130pf load.
Link Posted: 9/21/2017 9:40:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 7:25:38 PM EDT
[#35]
Competed in my first USPSA match with the hydraulic buffer. (My second USPSA match ever). I must say, it was a nice day with the buffer for double tap speed. I think I'm liking it the more I shoot it. Now I just need to get some 130 PF reloads going.
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