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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 10/5/2004 7:17:35 PM EST
What's the best way to set these 2 up TOGETHER on a Colt LE6920? Specifically, what mountings should I use how and should they be positioned along one another? I'm thinking the Holosight needs to be on top of the ACOG but I really don't know much about the different mounting options available. Please help!!!
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 8:06:56 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 9:48:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 12:34:38 PM EST by RH33]

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
the best way to mount them is one at a time...



Yup!

Some people have done this type of set up with a NSN or TA01, but you won’t need to with the BAC equipped TA31. Were you thinking about the NSN w/ Docter sight on top?

Ray
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 4:18:06 AM EST
Maybe he's thinking of using the ACOG as a 4X magnifier? A rather expensive one
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 4:42:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By Duffy:
Maybe he's thinking of using the ACOG as a 4X magnifier? A rather expensive one



Sorry... I'm a bit confused. Isn't the ACOG TA31 a fixed 4X scope? I'm thinking that the Eotech is more for close range and the ACOG for longer range. I didn't think you could use the ACOG's BAC feature without using the power magnification. I know that the BAC technology allows you to look through the scope with both eyes open (similar to the Holosight) but with 4X magnification. Maybe I'm just not understanding how the ACOG sight really works. Please explain.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 8:50:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
I know that the BAC technology allows you to look through the scope with both eyes open (similar to the Holosight) but with 4X magnification.



When you do this the magnification doesn't really matter. If it did, it would give you headache looking through one eye magnified and one eye not. Instead, just like if you hold a finger over one eye, you see only a sort of ghost image from the blocked eye. Now imagine if your finger had a glowing red dot on it...you'd see what's behind your finger, but the red dot would stand out. With 4x mag. it might not feel as "natural" as a non-mag. optic like Aimpoint or EOTech but it's still pretty effective.

At least I think that's how it works. I can't even afford to look at pictures of ACOGs.

--Josh
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 9:17:57 AM EST
New-arguy is correct, one at a time is probably best... That said, I had an extra EOTech 552 and saw some of the dual mounts on this site. As my Colt HBar II has a four-rail fore-end and an ACOG TA-11 on top, I took a Falcon Enterprises Dual rail adapter base, (Brownells.com Item #100-001-132) and mount it in the front. This gives a 45deg canted rail, on which I mounted the EOTech. Other than unnecessary and a tad bulky, it really works good. A slight tilt counterclockwise put the 552 vertical and I have put over 500 rds with this setup and have not had any extraction problem with the tilt. That said, the ACOG is my absolute favorite, and would be fine by itself.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 10:26:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
the best way to mount them is one at a time...



+1

Link Posted: 10/6/2004 10:26:15 AM EST
Thank you everyone for your replies, but...

What I was thinking was that maybe there exists a sturdy/reliable mount system that would allow me to mount the EOTech ON TOP of the ACOG (or any other magified scope). I'm pretty sure I've seen that configuration before, although I cant say where b/c I don't remember. I'm just trying to think of a way to have both options available at the same time, without being flimsy or unsturdy.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 10:56:38 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 11:09:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2004 11:12:11 AM EST by El_Roto]

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
Thank you everyone for your replies, but...

What I was thinking was that maybe there exists a sturdy/reliable mount system that would allow me to mount the EOTech ON TOP of the ACOG (or any other magified scope). I'm pretty sure I've seen that configuration before, although I cant say where b/c I don't remember. I'm just trying to think of a way to have both options available at the same time, without being flimsy or unsturdy.



You're a bit confused, maybe I can help. You cannot, in any way shape or form, combine a TA31 with an EOTech, nor is there any need to. The TA31 is both a CQB optic and a 4x scope all in one.

The TA31 is designed to be used with both eyes open: it is not like a normal 4x scope that can only be used with one eye, thus giving you a small field of view. The TA31 lets you move and see everything with your normal vision while superimposing the Donut 'o Death over what you're viewing. Once you pick a target and decide to zoom in, the Bindon Aiming Concept (BAC) feature of the scope takes over and you switch from normal view to 4x view - instantly - engage the target and then start moving again, at which time you again switch to normal view all the time with both eyes open.

The TA31 works in close and can "reach out"; it doesn't need assistance.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 12:38:23 PM EST
Thank you everyone... I'm much clearer on this now. TA31 solo is the way to go.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 4:51:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2004 5:08:03 PM EST by inkaybee]
Not to add to the confusion but .... if it turns out you have a hard time with BAC at close ranges (like indoors), I suggest you try covering the front lens and looking though the back lense with both eyes open. One eye will see the doughnut the other will see the target. This is very fast but only works at close ranges.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 4:59:25 PM EST
Niceguy,

I have a TA11 and a EoTech 552. The EoTech sits on a LaRue quick detach mount and the TA11 sits on an ARMS dual throw lever QD mount.

For quick and dirty, I slap the EoTech on and for distance I swap for the TA11. That way I gear the rifle for the task at hand.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 5:14:27 PM EST
This Sunday when I get my EOTech I'll mount it in front of my TA31 and take a pic for you, this is assuming the EOTech mount raises to the same level as the ACOG...
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 9:57:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By SMGLee:

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
Thank you everyone for your replies, but...

What I was thinking was that maybe there exists a sturdy/reliable mount system that would allow me to mount the EOTech ON TOP of the ACOG (or any other magified scope). I'm pretty sure I've seen that configuration before, although I cant say where b/c I don't remember. I'm just trying to think of a way to have both options available at the same time, without being flimsy or unsturdy.



Niceguy,

There are mounts made for the TA01NSN to mount a doctor optic red dot sight, there is no device to date as far as i know for a EOTech to mount on top of a TA31 or TA01NSN for that matter. And I think i am pretty knowledgeable on anything EOTech.

Doctor optic will be your choice to mount on top of your ACOG, but since you paid the big bucks for the TA31 with the fiber optic illumination. this BAC device works much like a red dot in fast and fluid close in action. keep both eyes open and scan your area, print reticle on target, ID and shoot.

hope this helps.





The Doctor is like a mini-eotech. I wanted BDC over BAC on my rifle.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 10:50:01 AM EST
Hepcat85... That's a nice setup, and that's the idea I'm looking for. I've got the EOTech but I haven't taken it out of the box yet and I'm still deciding on the ACOG. I want to be able to have the best of both worlds. I really like the EOtech because most of my shooting is within 100 yards, but I like the idea of having magnification too. Now you've got me thinking... Decisions, decisions, decisions...
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 10:54:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
Hepcat85... That's a nice setup, and that's the idea I'm looking for.



That setup is only needed because that particular ACOG doesn't have the BAC feature.

BTW why not keep the EOTech and just get the magnifier when they release it early next year?
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 11:04:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
Hepcat85... That's a nice setup, and that's the idea I'm looking for.



That setup is only needed because that particular ACOG doesn't have the BAC feature.

BTW why not keep the EOTech and just get the magnifier when they release it early next year?



Well, because I want to have both options available at the same time, without having to remove/add pieces... in other words, for CQB (or within 100 yds) just look through the EOTech sight... and for magnification look through the scope.... And it would be nice if they're both mounted in a way that doesn't require much adjustment in stance/positioning... maybe just a slight head adjustment or just raising or lowering the rifle a tiny bit. Am I asking for too much without spending a small fortune? Unless the 'magnifier' is going to have an on/off switch, I don't think it'll meet my needs... but it sounds like something worth considering.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 11:42:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 11:45:02 AM EST by npd233]

Originally Posted By niceguymr:

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
Hepcat85... That's a nice setup, and that's the idea I'm looking for.



That setup is only needed because that particular ACOG doesn't have the BAC feature.

BTW why not keep the EOTech and just get the magnifier when they release it early next year?



Well, because I want to have both options available at the same time, without having to remove/add pieces... in other words, for CQB (or within 100 yds) just look through the EOTech sight... and for magnification look through the scope.... And it would be nice if they're both mounted in a way that doesn't require much adjustment in stance/positioning... maybe just a slight head adjustment or just raising or lowering the rifle a tiny bit. Am I asking for too much without spending a small fortune? Unless the 'magnifier' is going to have an on/off switch, I don't think it'll meet my needs... but it sounds like something worth considering.



It's easy. Just need the right parts. Quadrail (I use a Surefire M73) and carry handle mounted '31. Here's a pic of how mine can be set up, I used to use only the EO mounted as shown on the M73, it co-witnesses the irons perfectly. I recently bought the detach carry handle and '31. When I put them all together they actually worked. Believe it or not, the EO does NOT interfere in any way with the view thru the '31. I don't carry it with the EO though I keep it in the case.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 1:55:14 PM EST
I have to pour salt in my eyes now. I'll be right back.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 2:09:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
Well, because I want to have both options available at the same time, without having to remove/add pieces... in other words, for CQB (or within 100 yds) just look through the EOTech sight... and for magnification look through the scope.... And it would be nice if they're both mounted in a way that doesn't require much adjustment in stance/positioning... [/qutoe]
A bone stock TA-31, TA-11, or TA50-2 will give you both options - learn to use the BAC features.


Am I asking for too much without spending a small fortune?


Yes (not to mention the additional weight).


Unless the 'magnifier' is going to have an on/off switch, I don't think it'll meet my needs... but it sounds like something worth considering.


With a LaRue throw lever mount it would take approximately .765408394 seconds to remove.

Got a question for you - how much proffessional training have you had with an AR, preferably with an optic. I get the feeling you're trying to make up for lack of skill and training with gear and it doesn't work that way. No amount of gear (no matter how much you spend) will make up for skill.

Pick a sight and learn to work with it. BAC equipped ACOGs are a decent 'all purpose' optic, as are the Aimpoints/EOtechs (especially with the new magnifier options).
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 2:32:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:

A bone stock TA-31, TA-11, or TA50-2 will give you both options - learn to use the BAC features.

With a LaRue throw lever mount it would take approximately .765408394 seconds to remove.

Got a question for you - how much proffessional training have you had with an AR, preferably with an optic. I get the feeling you're trying to make up for lack of skill and training with gear and it doesn't work that way. No amount of gear (no matter how much you spend) will make up for skill.

Pick a sight and learn to work with it. BAC equipped ACOGs are a decent 'all purpose' optic, as are the Aimpoints/EOtechs (especially with the new magnifier options).



To answer your question... I have no "professional" training with an AR, although I have been shooting for about 20 years (not much with ARs, but with various types of guns), and I'm a pretty damn good shot, even without a scope. I can also strip my AR down and put it back together blindfolded, which I'm sure for many of you is not such a big deal. I wasn't aware that I needed to pay for lessons to use my rifle as a hobby, although, I've learned a little bit from people with more experience than me while at the range. My experience with optics is that if you've got a good scope, and it's mounted and zeroed correctly, I can hit most targets dead on even at a few hundred yards. Other than that, I have no experience with scopes, and this is my first scope purchase. I hope it doesn't offend you for me to say that I DO believe having good equipment will make me a better shooter, although I do believe that there is a substantial element of experience involved in shooting well. Experience shooting is not my weekness... my knowledge of sights and optics IS.

"LaRue throw lever mount " - This is the kind of information I find usefull. I don't know anything about these mounting options as most people I shoot with have NO tactical gear knowledge. That's why I'm here. Thank you for the insight. I'll have to look into this mount. Also, please share with me any other ideas like this that you may have.

As far as learning to use the BAC features, it's kinda hard when I don't have one to practice with. As I've seen them in the store, it's not as easy to aim quickly at closer range targets as say a Holosight. Perhaps I just need to spend more time in the store fidgiting with it, and maybe I'll get more comfortable. I don't believe the TA-11 has BAC, but I'll check on that.

Link Posted: 10/8/2004 2:45:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
I don't believe the TA-11 has BAC, but I'll check on that.




It has it.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 9:28:54 PM EST
Something else you might consider is a cant mounted sight. This is a JP setup:


I've never tried this, but from what I understand, you use your main optics for your distance shots then cant the rifle for your quick, close-up shots. You could theoretically do this with an EOTech too (it's done with a JPoint on the picture which is lighter and won't affect the balance of your rifle as much).
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 2:52:49 AM EST
I think all those sights would make your head hurt. Seriously I would rather have an optic of whatever type and a BUIS to think about. Much more and you start to run into options overload in a stress situation. IMHO.
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