How rare are square forge XM16E1 no forge code upper receivers that are rebated under the port door?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How rare are square forge XM16E1 no forge code upper receivers that are rebated under the port door?

Posted: 2/12/2017 4:10:58 PM EDT

I was at a gun show today and a guy had a mint square forge XM16E1 upper receiver with no forge codes that was rebated underneath the port door. It was 95%+ original grey finish with black lugs. He was asking $500 and I passed on it. However, with the recent uptick in prices, I'm second guessing myself. Now I'm having second thoughts & think I may have made a mistake. How rare are these receivers?

Posted: 2/12/2017 5:04:23 PM EDT

[#1]

Rare enough you can name your own price if you're looking to sell.

For comparisons sake I have two rebated under the port door 604 uppers, and a NOS square forge 604 upper laying around....but Ive never been able to find one of the uppers your talking about to buy.

Posted: 2/12/2017 5:17:44 PM EDT

[#2]

I have seen them but all have been in poor shape cosmetically. I would imagine one in 95% shape would fetch $450 and up.

Posted: 2/12/2017 5:53:59 PM EDT

[#3]

I looked for one without the relief for months with no luck, I can't imagine looking for one with it.

Posted: 2/12/2017 6:06:46 PM EDT

[#4]

Yep - unobtanium.

Posted: 2/12/2017 6:31:33 PM EDT

[#5]

Wow,
Wish I had that kind of gun shows around here.

Posted: 2/12/2017 6:53:59 PM EDT

[#6]

$500 is about right for that.

Posted: 2/12/2017 6:56:17 PM EDT

[#7]

I never find retro stuff at any show I visit, never.

Posted: 2/12/2017 10:54:25 PM EDT

[#8]

the only one that someone pried away from me was a trade for an original 605 upper.

Posted: 2/13/2017 12:25:25 AM EDT

[#9]

Although it seems high in one sense, condition is the key and demand far exceeds supply on those today. I wouldn't have looked twice at those coins but I didn't just pay $1600 plus for a kit either.

Same question 2 years ago would have probably got a $300 plus answer and 5 years ago a $200 plus answer and doubt they would have been as nice as what you describe either. What will happen in another 5 years hard to say? Guess is the real nice stuff will continue to climb a bit for a while depending on what competition surfaces.

Think $500 is today's high end asking price and have heard of a couple decent pieces bringing that. Problem is most aren't what I'd call decent but sellers still want top coins like they were. Don't think I'd have any second thoughts about it and market is very limited for those, or for one with $500 to spend on just a receiver.

Generally if I see the good stuff at a funshow it was brought for me to look at or Bubba took a run or two around the block with it rendering once a decent item basically worthless more times than not.

Posted: 2/14/2017 7:42:16 AM EDT

[#10]

Gents

What is meant by "rebated under port door"? My search showed rebated front hinge lugs, but couldnt find photos of port door feature.

Thanks!

Posted: 2/14/2017 8:25:35 AM EDT

[#11]

Square Forged Uppers

This should explain

Posted: 2/14/2017 6:32:00 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
Gents

What is meant by "rebated under port door"? My search showed rebated front hinge lugs, but couldnt find photos of port door feature.

Thanks!

View Quote

The recess, or inset area under the rear edge of the ejection port.

Attached File

Posted: 2/14/2017 6:42:16 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
The recess, or inset area under the rear edge of the ejection port.
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/356967/IMG-0958-146772.JPG

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Oh you suck.

Im mostly kidding, but I also hate you a little bit right now.

Posted: 2/14/2017 6:44:43 PM EDT

[#14]

The updated version of above pic:

Posted: 2/14/2017 9:16:11 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:

Oh you suck.

Im mostly kidding, but I also hate you a little bit right now.

View Quote

I wish I could find the active emojis on the new site? I want to put in the rolling laughing guy.

I understand and I feel that same retro envy quite often.

I only kinda suck though, as one was norreled by the prior owner and the 605 has the bullet proof arsenal crap on it.

To to answer the thread question though I have only seen one come up for sale Andrew I lucked into it. That said the early 603 and the 605 look to have come from different forgings which brings up a whole new set of assumptions and questions.

Posted: 2/14/2017 9:29:27 PM EDT

[#16]

Posted: 2/14/2017 9:38:19 PM EDT

[#17]

I may have some of those.
not a good picture, but I think one or two of these maybe one. maybe not.
I think the others are in the safes I cannot get to right now.
If it is I will know what to look for. can anyone tell?

Attached File

Posted: 2/14/2017 9:45:26 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
I may have some of those.
not a good picture, but I think one or two of these maybe one. maybe not.
I think the others are in the safes I cannot get to right now.
If it is I will know what to look for. can anyone tell?

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/132102/2010-08290017-146890.JPG

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/132102/003-146883.JPG

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You have only one, but it is your SP1 upper which is second from bottom, and I believe that ALL SP1 uppers are cut that way - so not rare at all.

Posted: 2/14/2017 9:49:29 PM EDT

[#19]

OK, Thanks.
Ron

Posted: 2/14/2017 10:36:21 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
I wish I could find the active emojis on the new site? I want to put in the rolling laughing guy.

I understand and I feel that same retro envy quite often.

I only kinda suck though, as one was norreled by the prior owner and the 605 has the bullet proof arsenal crap on it.

To to answer the thread question though I have only seen one come up for sale Andrew I lucked into it. That said the early 603 and the 605 look to have come from different forgings which brings up a whole new set of assumptions and questions.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Oh you suck.

Im mostly kidding, but I also hate you a little bit right now.

I wish I could find the active emojis on the new site? I want to put in the rolling laughing guy.

I understand and I feel that same retro envy quite often.

I only kinda suck though, as one was norreled by the prior owner and the 605 has the bullet proof arsenal crap on it.

To to answer the thread question though I have only seen one come up for sale Andrew I lucked into it. That said the early 603 and the 605 look to have come from different forgings which brings up a whole new set of assumptions and questions.

Its all very nice either way

Posted: 2/14/2017 10:50:32 PM EDT

[#21]

I am all for retro, but, yeah, uh, NO!

I won't pay inflated supply and demand prices... for most things.

Posted: 2/14/2017 11:01:39 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:

You have only one, but it is your SP1 upper which is second from bottom, and I believe that ALL SP1 uppers are cut that way - so not rare at all.

View Quote

live4nov, That said, Does that mean that the early 603 and the 605 look to have come from different forgings which brings up a whole new set of assumptions and questions.

Were they made from SP1 forgings?

Ron

Posted: 2/14/2017 11:08:18 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
I am all for retro, but, yeah, uh, NO!

I won't pay inflated supply and demand prices... for most things.

View Quote

Are you all for coins too, but won't pay "inflated supply and demand prices" for a RARE 1909s vdb, so you will just settle for a common 1910 cent, right?

Retro is all about lookalikes to some people, and to others it is all about originality and rarity. Rare parts/pieces command higher prices BECAUSE of limited supply and increased demand. A lookalike collector may not understand that, but an original collector does. I'm not disparaging lookalike collectors, but I don't think they should knock the original parts retro collectors either.

Posted: 2/14/2017 11:38:05 PM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:

Are you all for coins too, but won't pay "inflated supply and demand prices" for a RARE 1909s vdb, so you will just settle for a common 1910 cent, right?

Retro is all about lookalikes to some people, and to others it is all about originality and rarity. Rare parts/pieces command higher prices BECAUSE of limited supply and increased demand. A lookalike collector may not understand that, but an original collector does. I'm not disparaging lookalike collectors, but I don't think they should knock the original parts retro collectors either.

View Quote

I started out as a look alike collector, I have boxes of parts from 35 to 40 years in storage. I was an FFL and took a lot of AR/M16 parts in trade.
Most went into storage until a few years ago.
I have been opening boxes for the last few years and sorting out parts.
It is a good feeling to find a part that is not so common.
Now I have many look alike builds. ( Not sure how many)
When I started building I just grabbed a part out of one of the boxes and put it on if it fit.
Some day I will pull them all out and take them apart to do builds as correct as possible.
For now I am just storing parts on completed rifles/carbines.
I am learning but there are so many different parts that look just like other parts to the look alike collector until someone points out the differences.
Then the lights start coming on.
Thanks for taking the time to help us "LOOKALIKE COLLECTORS" out.
RON

Posted: 2/15/2017 2:19:16 AM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:

Are you all for coins too, but won't pay "inflated supply and demand prices" for a RARE 1909s vdb, so you will just settle for a common 1910 cent, right?

Retro is all about lookalikes to some people, and to others it is all about originality and rarity. Rare parts/pieces command higher prices BECAUSE of limited supply and increased demand. A lookalike collector may not understand that, but an original collector does. I'm not disparaging lookalike collectors, but I don't think they should knock the original parts retro collectors either.

View Quote

Let me put it more simply than my rant below; I am a SPEC nazi, so what do you think?

Just a bit on the poorer side...

Before my rant, I was around before the retro forum and happy when it was formed...shoot, I was bidding on n a realist 3x Colt scope on eBay while on a trip in Europe and hopping into the computer salon things when the auction was ending just to make sure i got it.., in 2007.

I am an original parts collector, but I still won't pay the crazy prices stuff is going for today. Hence why I am only doing 70s 604, a HR / GM build and a late A1 build ... no 601, 602, early builds, 605 etc oh yeah and a couple GUU-5P builds with an ,,IDF, 723 727 thrown in for good measure. All original parts .

I know WHY the parts are so much and if I had unlimited funds sure, but i have not had 30-40 years to collect parts or fortune. Barely past the 10 yr mark... and the SOPMOD block and MK12 scene does not help any either...but I did buy the stupid expensive parts when they were normal price.

I wonder what a colt 723 barrel would sell for in today's market?

Posted: 2/15/2017 2:50:16 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:

live4nov, That said, Does that mean that the early 603 and the 605 look to have come from different forgings which brings up a whole new set of assumptions and questions.

Were they made from SP1 forgings?

Ron

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

You have only one, but it is your SP1 upper which is second from bottom, and I believe that ALL SP1 uppers are cut that way - so not rare at all.

live4nov, That said, Does that mean that the early 603 and the 605 look to have come from different forgings which brings up a whole new set of assumptions and questions.

Were they made from SP1 forgings?

Ron

I guess since the term 605 is really for shaved 603s approved for production for AF 604s is why it interests me. that said its not that big of a deal I guess as they had to have multiple dies running at once. its obvious in these 614s within 900 digits of each other that were different dies too. Look at the the top of selector stops, the bolt catch ears and other differences you can see with them in hand. they were also machined differently with the flash on the tang and other areas. basically there are so many variables even in close production ranges with all of the parts that you never know anything for sure.

Attached File

Posted: 2/15/2017 8:06:44 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
I wish I could find the active emojis on the new site? I want to put in the rolling laughing guy.

I understand and I feel that same retro envy quite often.

I only kinda suck though, as one was norreled by the prior owner and the 605 has the bullet proof arsenal crap on it.

To to answer the thread question though I have only seen one come up for sale Andrew I lucked into it. That said the early 603 and the 605 look to have come from different forgings which brings up a whole new set of assumptions and questions.

View Quote

Emote