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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/28/2004 4:08:43 PM EST
Hey guys, this is my first post although I have been lurking for some time. I have built two previous AR's that I have since sold and am looking to build some more. I have two receivers on order, not sure when/if they will get here in my lifetime. I am a CNC machinist by trade, new to the industry but learning a lot very quickly.

So here's the question, I know you can buy 80% lowers and finish them and you can also build ones from scratch, what I need to know is how many you can build per year before the ATF gets you for manufacturing without a license. One of my friends says one, I have read there isn't really a limit, not sure of the correct answer. I am going to call my local ATF office sometime this week and ask them, but what do yall think?

Another question is - can you use these homebuilt receivers for pistol builds?

Thanks in advance for any input!!
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 4:11:06 PM EST
See what they say about this on tanneryshop.com. ID say its ok but dont build them to sell.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 4:18:49 PM EST
where do you get an 80% receiver?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 4:33:46 PM EST
Don't call the ATF The less they know the better! You can build as many 80% receivers as you want, you just can't sell them to anyone.
Stay away from those tannery shop lowers, they are total cast shit.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 4:46:15 PM EST
There is no law prohibiting the sale of completed 80%. You just can't complete it with the intention to sell it or sell it as part of a business enterprise, which makes you a manufacturer.

There's nothing wrong with Tannery cast lowers. They are just more of a challenge and take more work than the forged or billet 80%. All the original and some of the subsequent Builder Squad project lowers were done with Tannery Shop cast lowers.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 4:54:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By rockytherotty:

Stay away from those tannery shop lowers, they are total cast shit.



Because theyre cast? The lower doesnt take alot of abuse.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 6:39:59 PM EST
If you end up making too many you could always give them away to some of us. . . hough
Krackels
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 3:17:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By rockytherotty:
Don't call the ATF The less they know the better! You can build as many 80% receivers as you want, you just can't sell them to anyone.
Stay away from those tannery shop lowers, they are total cast shit.




You can sell them. You just cannot complete them with the intention of selling them (clear as mud huh?).

AFAIK there isn't a set number established, and since there's no serial number they are pretty much untraceable, but if they somehow find that you completed and sold say five or six in a year I think you would have some 'splainin' to do.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 5:27:55 AM EST
what about the legality of letting someone borrow one or just giving it to them as a gift?

Either way I wouldnt mind having a few untraceables.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 7:31:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:

Originally Posted By rockytherotty:

Stay away from those tannery shop lowers, they are total cast shit.



Because theyre cast? The lower doesnt take alot of abuse.



Says who? I don't know if TS lowers are "shit" for any other reason than being cast, but cast in it of itself is "shit". No, the firing operation of the AR-15 does not put too much stress on a lower, but defenders of the cast lower overlook the possibility of impact that could occur from sources beyond firing operation, e.g. taking a spill of an ATV (which one poster remarked shattered his cast lower). the point is you never know if such impact might occur because such impact is unexpected.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 7:53:35 AM EST
Well, they said after the ban there would be Uzis & AK47s flooding the streets. I say make 1000 of them & leave them lying around nearby streets. Be sure to post pics.

Link Posted: 9/29/2004 10:09:43 AM EST
From what I've read...
You can build 1 firearm a year whether it is a rifle, shotgun, or pistol.
You can sell or transfer them after you've had them for a year.
These statments raise other questions.
How to prove you've had them in a manufactured state for a year?
What if you buy 2-1000 80% lowers at one time? Any receipt you have will only be objecive proof for one receiver, the rest would be hazy.
I searched on BATF's website until my ears were crossed with legalese and couldn't find anything about either statement. It's all other people's interpretations and opinions.
I was going to try my hand at building at least one for the fun of it and I still want to one day.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 6:16:02 AM EST
You are reading bad information.

The "sell after one year" is probably derived from the regulations for a licensed dealer who transfers a firearm from his dealer inventory to his personal collecton. If he chooses to sell it before 1 year, he must transfer back to his bound book/dealer incventory and sell on a 4473.

After one year, disposition is in as with state and local law. a record must be kept, almost identical to the bound book entries, except a 4473 is not required.

As to manufacturing, the issue is excise tax. A non licensee simply cannot pay excise tax. There is no mechanism to pay it without a Type 7 FFL and EIN.

It is unlawful to manufacture FOR PURPOSE OF RESALE firearms without a Type & and EIN and paying excise tax of 11% of the constructive cost (another bcan of worms is "constructive cost")

There is no law preventing you from building as many guns as you want NOT for PURPOSE of resale. If subsequent events compell you to sell, then the intention was not to resell and you are okay.

Should you repeatedly build and sell, it might draw undue attention to you and compell ATF to investigate you "intention" or "purpose".

Link Posted: 10/1/2004 10:54:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By Gunplumber:
You are reading bad information.

The "sell after one year" is probably derived from the regulations for a licensed dealer who transfers a firearm from his dealer inventory to his personal collecton. If he chooses to sell it before 1 year, he must transfer back to his bound book/dealer incventory and sell on a 4473.

After one year, disposition is in as with state and local law. a record must be kept, almost identical to the bound book entries, except a 4473 is not required.

As to manufacturing, the issue is excise tax. A non licensee simply cannot pay excise tax. There is no mechanism to pay it without a Type 7 FFL and EIN.

It is unlawful to manufacture FOR PURPOSE OF RESALE firearms without a Type & and EIN and paying excise tax of 11% of the constructive cost (another bcan of worms is "constructive cost")

There is no law preventing you from building as many guns as you want NOT for PURPOSE of resale. If subsequent events compell you to sell, then the intention was not to resell and you are okay.

Should you repeatedly build and sell, it might draw undue attention to you and compell ATF to investigate you "intention" or "purpose".



And a big welcome to the Gunplumber!!
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