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Posted: 9/12/2004 10:51:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 10:51:48 AM EST by sevenedges]
I am looking to purchase my first AR. I was told by a few people that Wilson's AR's are not worth the money. I am trying to get a better feel for that by posting here. I have my eye on the UT-15 Quad Rail, and was hoping to get some feed back about the rifle compared to others. I am primarily concerned with quality and perfomance of the rifle, and am willing to spend more money for a better product. Are there any other top makers of the AR I should look into also? Thanks for all input.

Jeff
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:53:54 AM EST
Get a Rock River or a Bushmaster... You will not be dissapointed in either one...
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 11:12:44 AM EST
RRA or Bushmaster I've got both, You won't be sorry
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 11:34:26 AM EST
Are Wilson's not as good as Bushmaster? or are they better? Or is it that they just don't warrant the price difference? I guess what I'm asking is if someone was going to give you any brand of rifle you wanted for free what would you choose?

Thanks, Jeff
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 11:43:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By sevenedges:
Are Wilson's not as good as Bushmaster? or are they better? Or is it that they just don't warrant the price difference? I guess what I'm asking is if someone was going to give you any brand of rifle you wanted for free what would you choose? Colt M16 RR

Thanks, Jeff

Link Posted: 9/12/2004 11:46:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By sevenedges:
I guess what I'm asking is if someone was going to give you any brand of rifle you wanted for free what would you choose?


Colt (if I was looking for an M4 or Govt Carbine type).

If I was looking for a precision AR - then Bushmaster, Armalite, or RRA with a stainless barrel.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 11:50:49 AM EST
I'm buying one right now from the EE , I dont really care that people say they are overpriced .
It has the features and look that appeal to me .. and thats a good enough reason for me .

I just wish it didnt come up at the same time I found 3 pre ban lowers to add to my collection here in the PRNY .

Oh well ....... it's only money
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 5:04:08 PM EST
I like mine.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 5:25:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 5:32:37 PM EST by MT_Pockets]
You tell 'em Chrome!

I can tell you all that if you were to run one through the paces and and feel how smooth it operates you would not bash the UT-15. The rifle has a single stage JP Trigger that is so nice that all my friends/relatives/customers that handle my UT are sending their Colt, BushMaster, RRA, etc to have JP's installed. +1 for JP for a great product...+1 for Wilson knowing to use high quality, high performance parts.

Quote.."Geez! My Bushy feels like gravel compared to this..."
and quote..."I NEEEED one of these in my Colt..."

I hand a UT-15 to a member of the local Special Weapons and Tactics unit... Instant smile, glassy eyes and deep sigh. I had to ask to have it back. It was like taking a newly found puppy from a little kid....

Just please don't knock a weapon you haven't had a chance to try. None of that grumble...grumble price toooo high...grumble. People purchase them! If the price was toooo high they wouldn't sell. I can't afford a Dino Ferrari but I can tell you I will never complain about the car.

Here is a pic..sorry it is grainy if the camera was made as well as the rifle it would look better!



MT_Pockets

edited to quiet my rant... Rock River makes a fine base rifle to start your journey to into the world of AR and it is a great Company to deal with. Also with all the information on AR15.com and a few tools you could build your own!
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:27:02 AM EST
I am going to go ahead with the purchase of the UT -15. As with anything, once you hit a certain price point the quality goes up slower than the price. Look at knives like Chris Reeves, or Surefire or Porche. I am willing to pay twice the price for less than twice the quality. They look great to me, and I think it's time to place an order. Thanks to everyone for there input here.

Jeff
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 7:03:42 AM EST
Wilson UT-15: $1600-1750

RRA CAR-16 A4 with chrome moly barrel and free float tube: $890
Ergo grip: $25
JP Fire Control Package: $220 installed
Total: $1135

It's your money, but don't say we didn't warn you.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 8:00:14 AM EST

I am going to go ahead with the purchase of the UT -15. As with anything, once you hit a certain price point the quality goes up slower than the price. Look at knives like Chris Reeves, or Surefire or Porche. I am willing to pay twice the price for less than twice the quality. They look great to me, and I think it's time to place an order. Thanks to everyone for there input here.

Jeff



Can I use that quote?

MT
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 8:40:51 AM EST
i could get 2 bushmasters (or RRA) for the same price

quality: there just as good, its just the name and price thats different

get a bushy and spend the rest $$$ on ammo and accessories
if you got LOTS of $$$$ then just buy another AR
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 9:33:28 AM EST
Caneau, Thanks for the info. I don't know how much the O.D. green tuff coat costs but throw that in too. I love the green black combo.hat
Jeff
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 9:49:36 AM EST
HELL I CAN BUILD 3 RIFLES FOR THE PRICE OF A WILSON ARMS AND MY SHOT THE SAME OR BETTER THAT HIS RIFLES or you can two RRA or bushmaster I will put any bushmaster or armlite or RRA with his stuff when is the last time you seen WILSON AD on this site bushmaster is the industry leader for a reason
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 10:07:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 10:07:50 AM EST by MT_Pockets]
Depends on how you like your fries....



I just don't know where the hate comes from for Companies like Wilson, Ed Brown...etc.

MT
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 10:11:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 10:53:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By MT_Pockets:
I just don't know where the hate comes from for Companies like Wilson, Ed Brown...etc.



I think it stems from the fact that those companies (Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, Les Baer) all put out rifles that they claim are uber-tactical, but still do not use the components that the military uses, ie chrome lined barrel, correct profiling, mil-spec FCGs, forged front sight towers, etc. The fact that they try to justify those shortcomings by "claiming" that theirs are "tactical" kinda rubs people the wrong way. It does to me. Don't get me wrong, I love the 1911s that those companies put out, since I know the amount of work involved in building a good 1911, but the AR platform just dosen't correlate. The AR platform just dosen't need that level of hand fitting and finish to work. Many here have the ability to put together an AR, have it Lauer coated OD green to match the WC, same parts installed, and put it head to head with a Wilson and be equal (if not better) in performance for nearly 1/3 less.

Just my $.02, YMMV
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 11:12:13 AM EST
Ghost-Shooter,

Thank you. That is the first explanation anyone has gives real insight to how some view these Companies without displaying ignorance and inexperience.

MT
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 11:30:58 AM EST
+1 Ghost, you got it dead on

I can justify spending $2k+ on a Wilson Combat 1911 because I know it will be one of the best single action handguns money can buy. 1911's are very complicated compared to most modern pistols. Heck, even Browning himself thought so and shortly there after made the Hi-Power. The AR is already a relatively simple design. That's part of the reason it requires less work to make a very accurate, very reliable gun. It's not that Les, WC, or any other of the high profile custom 1911 make bad guns, AR's just are not their specialty.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 11:31:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 11:32:58 AM EST by Ghost-Shooter]
NP dude. People all have their opinions on stuff. Its what makes the world go around. Plus, most of them are just cheap However, IMHO, the JP triggers (and other competition triggers) just do not belong in a "serious usage gun", ie a gun you are planning to take into harm's way. Mil-spec trigger groups are the standard in reliability, and, lets face it, when the bullets are flying, you won't notice the heavy trigger pull.

Actually, what I would like to see WC put out as far as ARs go is a 16" lightweight profile barreled carbine, 4150 steel with chrome lining, forged FSB, Vortex FS, VLTOR collapsable stock, LaRue 7.0 FF forearm, polished mil-spec FCG, Hogue grip, gapper and a LMT rear sight. Hopefully, it'll be assembled right, with no loose parts, and the sights are dead on in the center (not canted one way or the other ) If they make something like this for around $1500, it'll be a serious competitor to anyone else's AR. Their level of fit and finish is amazing, but their choices in parts often leave quite a bit to be desired.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 11:42:40 AM EST
There is often a dispute between those that have paid highly for a product, and those that feel they have something similar without the price. I've handled many top of the line AR15s, and not found most to be worth the higher price tag for me. Then again, I use my AR15s like the tools that they are. I would probably find it hard to beat on and abuse a Wilson, even if for no other reason than the price.

Lack of chrome while claiming it as top of the line is hard for many to swallow, including myself. I look at the M16/AR15 family as a combat weapon. I carry one daily and expect it to play its role accordingly. I'm sure that the trigger on the Wilson is still everything they have always been, but when things go bad, trigger pull is one of the last things you will ever worry about. Reliablity, reliablity, reliablity are the three Rs that will matter.

If you have the money, and you like it, that is probably all that is going to matter.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 11:54:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 11:55:21 AM EST by MT_Pockets]
I realize that Wilson Combat doesn't spec out some of the desired options of the Military Aficionados but they do produce exactly what they are marketing...and that is a reliable defense rifle/pistol/shotgun for LE and Civilians. I have seen many "home built" rifles/pistols/shotguns that rival and exceed the UT-15 but the people who assemebled them have time, tools and trouble invested. For some building isn't and shouldn't be an option and they will pay someone else to do the work.

Also the retail prices quoted ... are simply retail and we all know what means.

I really appreciate the input and apologize for the high-jacking.

MT
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 1:23:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 1:24:33 PM EST by SHOOTER]
I was looking to purchase a Wilson AR for sometime and was getting the same replies about how much they cost. I really do not have a good answer why I wanted one, I just did. I have built and and owned many AR's over the years and I guess I wanted to give it a try. The thing that finally stopped me from buying one was finding the right price on one. I have since decided to order a RRA no ban with lots of extra's for about the same price I would have paid for the Wilson. If you really want one and get the deal you want, go for it. I just decided I could get more bang for the buck from some other AR.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 9:17:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2004 9:19:21 AM EST by Gimme_A_Carbine]

Originally Posted By MT_Pockets:
You tell 'em Chrome!

I can tell you all that if you were to run one through the paces and and feel how smooth it operates you would not bash the UT-15. The rifle has a single stage JP Trigger that is so nice that all my friends/relatives/customers that handle my UT are sending their Colt, BushMaster, RRA, etc to have JP's installed. +1 for JP for a great product...+1 for Wilson knowing to use high quality, high performance parts.

Quote.."Geez! My Bushy feels like gravel compared to this..."
and quote..."I NEEEED one of these in my Colt..."

I hand a UT-15 to a member of the local Special Weapons and Tactics unit... Instant smile, glassy eyes and deep sigh. I had to ask to have it back. It was like taking a newly found puppy from a little kid....

Just please don't knock a weapon you haven't had a chance to try. None of that grumble...grumble price toooo high...grumble. People purchase them! If the price was toooo high they wouldn't sell. I can't afford a Dino Ferrari but I can tell you I will never complain about the car.

Here is a pic..sorry it is grainy if the camera was made as well as the rifle it would look better!

img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/MT_Pockets/DSC00117a.jpg

MT_Pockets

edited to quiet my rant... Rock River makes a fine base rifle to start your journey to into the world of AR and it is a great Company to deal with. Also with all the information on AR15.com and a few tools you could build your own!




This sounds like props for the trigger, and any AR would have the same "wow" effect w/ such a good trigger. I'd buy something else and deck it out w/ toys and a nice trigger for the same money, or better yet, learn to use a "gravel" trigger and buy ammo to prcatice with.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 10:19:06 AM EST
Yes it is a plug for the company that manufactures the trigger and also the one who installs it. There are other positive comments made by people that have tried the UT-15 the trigger was just the first that came to mind.

sevenedges thread was started with "How good is the UT-15?"...I was trying to provide information on the rifle that may be helpful. The UT-15 is a very smooth functioning rifle out of the box. It doesn't feel like you need to run 200 rounds through it before it comes around, though it isn't the only rifle that I have been able to say this about. You can purchase a basic AR send it here for this part and there for that part then have it finished in a color. Some people want their rifles complete when they receive them and some like do toy with them a bit. Neither is a wrong choice.

There are many rifle manufacturers to choose from and many models would be good choices for a first AR. Which one he purchases will be his decision and I don't intend to sway that. I am only trying to provide information that may be helpful on the posted topic.

MT
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 10:45:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2004 10:47:03 AM EST by brentwal]
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/MT_Pockets/Plain_or_Spicycopy.jpg
MT I hope you don't mind me using this photo

Vanilla or Chocolate?

Most of you guys would probably say Chocolate even if it cost more.

But say BM, RRA... or Wilson or Les Baer or the like and you all want Vanilla.

Sure you can make both ice cream and ARs at home. Any way you do it is fine.
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