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Posted: 7/21/2005 11:40:06 AM EDT
I recently zeroed my M4gery due to the instl of a new 16” DPMS M4 barrel. I zeroed my BM CCH BUIS using the 50m Santose IBSZ and zeroed my EOTech at 50m.

I know there are a lot of factors that effect accuracy, but what type of groups do you generally shoot when plinking with irons or red dot type optics, i.e. EOTech, Aimpoint?

I noticed at 50m, with irons shooting prone supported, I can keep a nickel sized group. Same goes for the EOTech.

At 100m my groups open up quite a bit. I can easily make head shots all day long but groups average about 8”.

This was using Winchester White Box 55gr ammo.

I know my eyes are not what they used to be, I’m pushing 40 yrs old!
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 11:43:35 AM EDT
If I'm slow and methodical my iron sight accuracy is pretty good, but for SHTF situations, I find my EOTech to allow for rapid, very accurate fire. Its just easier to put the recticle over center mass with the hologram.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 12:04:14 PM EDT
From the bench with a good rifle I can do about 3 inch groups. From the prone position I can do about five inch groups. I could probably tighten up the prone groups with some more practice.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 12:05:08 PM EDT
I can shoot minute of dead at 200 w/ irons.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 12:15:13 PM EDT
When I was shooting last weekend to compare aperture sizes and test out my new same-plane rear I was getting groups in the 2.25" range with the smaller apertures and more like 3-4" with the larger ones. That's at 50yds with NRA 50-yd Smallbore Rifle targets and with elbows rested on the bench. Ammo was USA 55gr FMJ (not Q3131A) from Wal-Mart. Same rifle does about 1.5' with the same ammo, scope, and sandbag. My eyes aren't as old as yours, so I'd say you're doing OK.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 12:37:41 PM EDT
2-3 minutes prone or supported at 100

4-5 minutes standing at 100

minute of skunk out to 200 yards
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 12:43:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 12:47:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 1:56:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2005 1:57:59 PM EDT by triburst1]
I can keep a 30 round mag in a 5-6 inch circle at 100 yards from a combat stance. From supported knealing from behind cover, 3-4" inches, and 2-3" from supported prone.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 2:02:18 PM EDT
As good as, if not better than, using the EoTech.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 2:07:10 PM EDT
minute of bad guy
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 2:07:52 PM EDT
Irons: about 5" from a bench at 100 yds.

I know I'm a lousy shot, so I'm not to making excuses, but I really need to get my eyes checked.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 2:09:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By QUIB:
I recently zeroed my M4gery due to the instl of a new 16” DPMS M4 barrel. I zeroed my BM CCH BUIS using the 50m Santose IBSZ and zeroed my EOTech at 50m.

I know there are a lot of factors that effect accuracy, but what type of groups do you generally shoot when plinking with irons or red dot type optics, i.e. EOTech, Aimpoint?

I noticed at 50m, with irons shooting prone supported, I can keep a nickel sized group. Same goes for the EOTech.

At 100m my groups open up quite a bit. I can easily make head shots all day long but groups average about 8”.

This was using Winchester White Box 55gr ammo.

I know my eyes are not what they used to be, I’m pushing 40 yrs old!



Just wait until you are pushing 50 !
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 2:22:03 PM EDT
With the HBAR I can drill 55 gal. drums at 400 yards all day, but that's with NO wind and I do miss ocassionally. All of my "SHTF" stuff has irons except for my bolt guns. We were expected in marksmanship training to be lethal out to 400 meters on the rifle range (shooting standard "figure 11" running IVAN rifle targets)

Growing up country really gave me an advantage over most of the city boys on that range.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 2:24:50 PM EDT
I actually prefer irons to anything else. 100yds. benched I get 2 1/2", prone gets me about 3", and my offhand is.....well, on paper anyway!.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 2:29:28 PM EDT
As I get older, and my astigmatism gets worse....
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 2:36:09 PM EDT
USMC qualify at 500meters using Irons in prone position.

300meters prone rapid fire

200meters standing, kneeling, sitting & sitting rapid fire.

I qualified expert each year I was in.

During tactical matches I use irons for hitting steel targets out at 200yards while runing and gunning.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 2:49:28 PM EDT
M.O.G. (minute of groundsquirrel) at 100 yds. sometimes quite a bit further but they are just a speck to cover with the post.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 3:42:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By die-tryin:
I qualified expert each year I was in.



I always qualified expert during my time in the Army, the max range though was 300m, and I never got a chance to see how I was grouping with pop up targets. The paper targets that sit at 25m and simulated targets out to 300m were kind of bogus too.

Not making excuses but I am in need of glasses, and those front sight posts are pretty thick!

Guess next range session I’ll pick up some better ammo and try that for kicks!
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 3:48:34 PM EDT
From a bench, I can keep it to around 4-5" at 100 yards with my M4gery.
From a standing position, I would say Minute of silloutte.

At over 50 yards, I can shoot as tight if not tighter groups with irons alone, as compared to my 4MOA aimpoint. For up close and personal, the aimpoint is awesome, on a sunny day at a 100 yard range, disapointing to say the least.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 3:51:05 PM EDT
I much prefer good aperture sights to scopes. And I can usually hit what I'm pointing at.

Even though my hunting guns all have scopes, and I've slayed many hundreds of prairie dogs with my scoped 10/22 20+ yrs ago, I'm generally much slower and don't like scopes much. I do think I would like one of Leupold's tapered cross hair scopes. I've looked through one and it seemed to draw my eye towards the center.

I recently bought a cheap ($30 or so) imitaition Aimpoint, but haven't shot it much. But I did like it and want to step up to the real thing one of these days.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 3:52:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
minute of bad guy


Yep. Good enough.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 3:52:51 PM EDT
I'm able to shoot at only 25 yards. With irons, I can place 19-20 rounds into a 3" circle. For me, that's pretty good.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 4:10:35 PM EDT
I can hold 2 MOA at 200 from sitting, and about 2.5 MOA at 300 and 600 from prone. Just a sling and shooting coat for support.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 4:21:54 PM EDT
3.5 to 4.5 at 50 yds large arperture standing or kneeling both eyes open controlled rapid fire and 2 to 3" prone slow fire at 50 yds one eye open small arperture.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 4:41:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2005 4:44:17 PM EDT by 1IV]
Two tricks I have learned for good groups. Flat black the front sight, and put a scratch in the center of the front sight for a finer aiming point. ( I sharpened mine like a nail.... Works well for me.) and keep your nose on the charging handle.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 5:05:13 PM EDT
Does anyone in this thread (other than I and bigbore) use a sling to shoot?
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:01:00 PM EDT
I tried a few times but couldn't get the hang of it. I need someone to show me what I'm doing wrong but none of my shooting friends know how to use the sling as an aid to accuracy.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:06:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2005 6:08:32 PM EDT by bigbore]
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:12:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Does anyone in this thread (other than I and bigbore) use a sling to shoot?



I do. My former co-worker is a newly minted butter-bar for the USMC.
He instructed me on use of sling for tighter groups. I was shooting
1.5 MOA by the end of the session with my AR15A2.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:13:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Does anyone in this thread (other than I and bigbore) use a sling to shoot?



+1

1MOA out to 300, 2MOA out to 600
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:22:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2005 6:22:53 PM EDT by munkalido]
I can set off a little bottle of Tannerite at 150 yds, off hand within 3 shots, money back guaranteed.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:26:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2005 6:27:38 PM EDT by Blackjack272]

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Does anyone in this thread (other than I and bigbore) use a sling to shoot?



+1

1MOA out to 300, 2MOA out to 600



+1 here.

My groups are a tad worse than that, but I ALWAYS screw it up with one flyer, somehow.

Hoskins.... Are you the Derek Hoskins that got leg points at the Reading Mass. regional match a few weeks back? I think I may have been standing right in front of you in the clubhouse
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:31:17 PM EDT
Minute of Vechile at 100 yards.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:32:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By cmm:
I tried a few times but couldn't get the hang of it. I need someone to show me what I'm doing wrong but none of my shooting friends know how to use the sling as an aid to accuracy.



Rock Solid
www.rifleslings.com/us_1907_sling10.jpg
As shown in the pic, once slung up you dont need your right arm to hold the rilfe at all.

how to use


I've figured a way to hook my single point (HK style hook) to a hole in the end of my DD rail, which allows me to sling up pretty good in an improvised position.



bigbore, thanks bro I'm trying that as I type. Can't wait to try it live fire.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:33:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Blackjack272:
Hoskins.... Are you the Derek Hoskins that got leg points at the Reading Mass. regional match a few weeks back? I think I may have been standing right in front of you in the clubhouse



That would be me. I'll be shooting there both days this weekend too.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:37:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Does anyone in this thread (other than I and bigbore) use a sling to shoot?



+1

1MOA out to 300, 2MOA out to 600



Yeah, I know about YOU, Mr. Distinguished Rifleman.......
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:38:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
I can hold 2 MOA at 200 from sitting, and about 2.5 MOA at 300 and 600 from prone. Just a sling and shooting coat for support.




Ignore if above was a sarcastic post, otherwise;



Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:39:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wes15a2:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Does anyone in this thread (other than I and bigbore) use a sling to shoot?



I do. My former co-worker is a newly minted butter-bar for the USMC.
He instructed me on use of sling for tighter groups. I was shooting
1.5 MOA by the end of the session with my AR15A2.



I am still amazed at how stable you can become with a sling and solid prone position. Ain't it cool?
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:41:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2005 6:44:15 PM EDT by sgthoskins]

Originally Posted By Dont-Tread-On-Me:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
I can hold 2 MOA at 200 from sitting, and about 2.5 MOA at 300 and 600 from prone. Just a sling and shooting coat for support.




Ignore if above was a sarcastic post, otherwise;






It's not that difficult.


ETA: I know SWO_daddy can hold that too.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:41:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmm:
I tried a few times but couldn't get the hang of it. I need someone to show me what I'm doing wrong but none of my shooting friends know how to use the sling as an aid to accuracy.



Here are some step-by-steps:

Using the M1907 sling for shooting support

Using the M1 sling for shooting support
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:42:17 PM EDT
better than most with scopes at 100 yards, beyond that
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:44:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:

Originally Posted By Dont-Tread-On-Me:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
I can hold 2 MOA at 200 from sitting, and about 2.5 MOA at 300 and 600 from prone. Just a sling and shooting coat for support.




Ignore if above was a sarcastic post, otherwise;






It's not that difficult.




Derek, I ignore dumbasses like that because you and I know I would OWN them if they stepped up to the line, and I'm just a lowly Expert.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:44:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:46:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:

Originally Posted By Dont-Tread-On-Me:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
I can hold 2 MOA at 200 from sitting, and about 2.5 MOA at 300 and 600 from prone. Just a sling and shooting coat for support.




Ignore if above was a sarcastic post, otherwise;






It's not that difficult.




Derek, I ignore dumbasses like that because you and I know I would OWN them if they stepped up to the line, and I'm just a lowly Expert.



I just love the guys who when they can't do something, well it just can't be done.

Cool pic bigbore.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:48:38 PM EDT
I'm good enough to make a liberal crap his pants
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:53:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2005 6:55:59 PM EDT by SWO_daddy]

Originally Posted By Dont-Tread-On-Me:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
I can hold 2 MOA at 200 from sitting, and about 2.5 MOA at 300 and 600 from prone. Just a sling and shooting coat for support.




Ignore if above was a sarcastic post, otherwise;







PWNED!!!!!!!!!
CWO Dennis Demille fired a new NRA High Power Rifle National Record in the Sitting Rapid Fire event of 300-28X.

This means that Dennis shot back to back 100-10Xs and then followed up with a 100-8X for his tie-breaking string.

Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:56:21 PM EDT
I think you just took to a whole new level.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 6:58:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 7:06:53 PM EDT
For those who might be wondering, CWO DeMille shot each string of ten rounds in 60 seconds. From the sitting position.

Starting standing on his feet.

At 200 yards.

Into a 1 MOA X ring.

Using metallic sights.

And a bolt action rifle.
Link Posted: 7/21/2005 7:17:06 PM EDT
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