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Posted: 10/5/2004 11:52:26 AM EST

I've asked a lot of my friends this, but everybody I've heard from online produces a much bigger number. So I'm curious if you folks can give me your opinions.

How far out can you reliably hit a man sized target (assume 9 hits out of 10 shots, or 90% percentile)

1.) From a bench or prone with bipod/fancy target stock:
2.) Prone with no bipod or fancy target stock:
3.) Kneeling:
4.) Standing:

In Yards


Link Posted: 10/5/2004 11:55:08 AM EST
I can do it at 200 fairly easy with low wind. Never tried any further than that on irons.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 11:58:26 AM EST
I have done 20 out of 20 slow fire prone using a sling at 200 yards all in the 9 ring or better. With a standard 20 inch Bushmaster. no mods made to rifle. Using Federal xm193 ammo. Not the best shooting in world but thought I would give it a try.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 12:00:18 PM EST
Most every Marine does it consistently at 500 yrds, prone using a sling. In fact, 10 out of 10 was gravy while qualifying.

CMP shooters do it at 500 or 600 yrds depending on course of fire. I do with mine.

Semper Fi!
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 12:09:45 PM EST
I've reliably hit at 200yds Kneeling and Standing.
As for prone with no bipod (but a sling), I've reliably hit at 600yds.
Haven't tried prone with a bipod.

I find the most difficult thing about shooting iron sights is being able to see the target. A black and buff figure 11 doesn't show up well against a sand backstop!
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 12:13:19 PM EST
BTW,

Standing, sitting, kneeling, 10 / 10 @ 200 yrds (standing is 80 - 90%)

Sitting and prone @ 300yrds 100%
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 12:14:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By limey1:
I find the most difficult thing about shooting iron sights is being able to see the target. A black and buff figure 11 doesn't show up well against a sand backstop!



+1

Group size isn't the issue for me, it's target detection and discrimination with these tired old eyes.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 12:18:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By limey1:
I find the most difficult thing about shooting iron sights is being able to see the target. A black and buff figure 11 doesn't show up well against a sand backstop!



HEY! Be careful with the black targets out there, it may be me damnit!!!!


I dunno at my age how far, way back in the Civil War, the Army made us shoot 300M popups. It was a breeze....

I do know how far my FAL will go with ACOG....
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 12:21:09 PM EST
5-600 yard man sized targets should be hit by a decent shooter reliably
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 12:24:27 PM EST
Depends what AR we are talking about. For the sake of this thread, assume I am using a Bushmaster 20" A2 with a 1:7 twist barrel and military ammo.

Bench - 600 yards, probably a bit further

Prone w/sling - 600 yards, maybe a tad more

Kneeling - not much beyond 300 yards

Offhand - 250-300 yards.

Nothing spectacular.... Ten bucks says you will find a few shooters here who have brought the AR to the thousand-yard line.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 12:24:50 PM EST
My 20" Bushmaster can hit the standard steel toro target out to 600 meters using irons, no trouble. This is prone, w/o bipod, and an ACE skeletonized stock.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 12:53:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By CavVet:

Originally Posted By limey1:
I find the most difficult thing about shooting iron sights is being able to see the target. A black and buff figure 11 doesn't show up well against a sand backstop!



HEY! Be careful with the black targets out there, it may be me damnit!!!!




Now THAT's and excellent sence of humor. !!!! That wins POST OF THE DAY.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 12:58:41 PM EST
600 yrds at Perry in Rattle Battle You should try it!
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 1:10:42 PM EST
A hundred miles.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 1:21:31 PM EST
Furthest I ever tried was 300 yards prone supported and unsupported. Never tried standing or sitting at any range greater than 100 yards. We had some longer range targets in the military, but I think they were larger than man-size.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 1:27:55 PM EST
500 all day
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 1:40:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By patriot73:
500 all day



i nail steel all day at 500 with my beater model 1 sales gun and wolf
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 1:40:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By Blackjack272:
Depends what AR we are talking about. For the sake of this thread, assume I am using a Bushmaster 20" A2 with a 1:7 twist barrel and military ammo.

Bench - 600 yards, probably a bit further

Prone w/sling - 600 yards, maybe a tad more

Kneeling - not much beyond 300 yards

Offhand - 250-300 yards.

Nothing spectacular.... Ten bucks says you will find a few shooters here who have brought the AR to the thousand-yard line.



Same here
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 1:57:42 PM EST
I shot a satellite out of orbit with my friend's .50bmg once.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 2:04:24 PM EST
Back in the day, 1968, I fired a perfect score qualifying with the M16 at Dix. Don't recall the max range. Today? Don't ask.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 2:07:03 PM EST
Never got a chance to fire an iron sighted gun past 100m.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 2:12:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2004 2:15:43 PM EST by bigbore]
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 2:14:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2004 2:15:18 PM EST by Boomholzer]
I could ring a 200lb LP gas cylinder pretty consistantly (once I got the drop calculated) at 400yrds with a AK. That is smaller than a man.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 2:23:05 PM EST
I don't know about man size targets. I transition from my Model 29 to a rifle when the Jack Rabbits are over 250 yards. It's the humane thing to do - don't want to wound them, ya know.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 2:40:20 PM EST
I recall range days in the army, seen new recruits hitting target at 465 meters easily.

I hate to toot my own horn,but I usely hit what I aim at.

TG
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 2:41:44 PM EST
I could hit a man-sized target center mass at 500 yards in the prone position with iron sights. That's enough for me.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 2:43:20 PM EST
I'm not as good a shot as some here. I only hit it 8 out of 10 shots in boot camp, in the wind. Perhaps I could do it all day long with my pet AR and no wind.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 2:45:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Never got a chance to fire an iron sighted gun past 100m.



no way!
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 2:50:53 PM EST
The Marine Corps says the max effective range for the M16A2 service rifle (is that close enough to an AR?) is 550m for a point target, and 800m for an area target. They pretty much brainwash that into you for the sake of regurgitation on command.

I have, however, seen some shoot on the range who couldn't hit the side of a barn - from the inside. It is probably a little subjective depending on the shooter and the rifle.

usmcweapons.com/articles/m16/M16A2NF.htm

I especially like the alternative uses listed for the M16. I was an electronic tech in the Corps, so my T/O weapon was a multimeter. hug.gif
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 2:52:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By avengeusa:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Never got a chance to fire an iron sighted gun past 100m.



no way!



Dead serious. I have fired hunting rifles and ARs with Aimpoints or ACOGS to 500m though. Very rare that I shoot past 100m though. Not many opportunities out here.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 3:01:03 PM EST
Bench: 300 yards
Prone: not sure, haven't tried yet
Kneeling: 300 yards
Standing: 300 yards.

Reason everything is 300 is because that's the farthest I've shot to date. I'd love to try things out at 500 or so with a number of my rifles. I need to hit the desert and measure things out or something.

But with my 16" AR using the larger aperature on my ARMS 40, I can ring the 300 yard diamond at Rio Salado all day long. I still need to fine tune my sights, but if I can hit that thing with that kind of regularity, I'm pretty darn close. Next up is the smaller diamond at the same distance. Probably a 8-10" diamond.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 3:23:35 PM EST
200 m is probably as far as I'd push Irons and an AR .
Beyond that I have other weapons better suited for the job .
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 4:04:06 PM EST
My AR is a 14.5" M4 profile barreled carbine. Only ammo I've used for longer range shooting has been XM193.

Off the bench I've shot to 450 yards and mansize targets are toast..

Offhand, I'd say 200 yards is my limit for consistant 10 out of 10 hits.

I'd LOVE to try a 20" AR with NM irons at 500+. That'll be my next AR when the funds are available.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 4:13:06 PM EST
550m if you have skills
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 4:40:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2004 4:41:55 PM EST by rockytherotty]
I'd say 200 yds. no problem, standing, kneeling. I'm sure I could do better prone.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 5:10:53 PM EST
500 yard hits in the prone position are fairly easy under the right conditions (minimal wind and correct dope). I qualified four times in the USMC (with iron sights of course) and never missed the target at the 500 (total of 40 shots). For me, and many Marines, 500 yards was the position to max out points.

Dan
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 3:02:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 3:43:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By DBUSH223:
600 yrds at Perry in Rattle Battle You should try it!



Rattle Battle is a rush. I typically fire 28rds during the 50 second exposures and normally drop no more than two at the 600yd line and more often than not clean the 500. I rarely lose a round in the sitting position at 300 yds on the F silhouette...
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 3:43:42 AM EST
The longest I've ever shot is 300 yards. At 300 yards from the prone I was pretty comfortable hitting man sized targets, I wasn't getting MOA groups but I was keeping all my shots minute of torso...
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:17:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By chrome1:
200 m is probably as far as I'd push Irons and an AR .
Beyond that I have other weapons better suited for the job .



The AR-15A2 is more than capable of hitting man sizd targets to 600 yards. The shooter has to know how, though.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:18:22 AM EST
Run out a ways and I will let you know.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:20:33 AM EST

600yds is NOTHING when you're talking "known" distances. Not many people can look across a field and say, "Yup looks like 600yds to me. Come up 14, and add 3 left."


If you shoot enough KD, your brain gets used to what the known distances look like, and estimating distances in the field becomes much easier.

That's one great reason for shooting NRA HP often.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:27:55 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:29:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By brouhaha:
Never tried beyond 200yds. I find it a bit pointless.



Why is it pointless?

Have you ever had the opportunity to shoot farther (with an AR) and declined it?
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 6:34:01 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 9:06:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2004 9:07:22 AM EST by SWO_daddy]

It's pointless because I'm never going to engage targets past about 150yds.


Never say never.


First off, my ammo stops fragmenting at about that point.


I don't really care about where ammo stops fragging. It will still tumble and do significant damage. I have been downrage in the target pits watching 68 to 77 grain bullets impacting the berm from the 300 yard line, and I sure as well would NOT want to be their target, fragmentation or no fragmentation


Secondly, how do I know that my target isn't backed up by somebody with a scoped rifle? 200yds is an evasion problem for me, not an engagement problem.


Kill him too. Evasion is all well and good, until you are detected and draw fire at a distance farther than what you can return effective fire.

We all make our choices. I just wanted to understand yours.

Me? I like knowing that I am well capable of nailing man sized targets with near certainty out to 500 meters, regardless of the rifle I am carrying.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 9:12:51 AM EST
you guys are all crazy...

talking about killing and stuff... shesh... !
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 9:47:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By GcS:

Originally Posted By DBUSH223:
600 yrds at Perry in Rattle Battle You should try it!



Rattle Battle is a rush. I typically fire 28rds during the 50 second exposures and normally drop no more than two at the 600yd line and more often than not clean the 500. I rarely lose a round in the sitting position at 300 yds on the F silhouette...



Not me, but my bro hit 45 with his AR at 600yds in the NTIT a couple years ago. Best I've ever done is 24/26 but that was with my M1A. I have yet to shoot it with my AR.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 10:28:55 AM EST
1. 600m
2. 600m
3. 200M
4. 100M

Matt Carper
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 11:05:56 AM EST
I can hit a man-sized target with my iron sights out to about 8 feet. Farther than that and I have to turn the gun around and shoot him....Larry
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 11:09:43 AM EST
500 meters. Never shot at anything farther away than that.

Semper Fi
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