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Posted: 1/19/2006 4:54:29 PM EDT
Until today I held D.P.M.S. in fairly high esteem. I figured they were just as good a choice as a lot of other AR makers. But what I saw today in WallyWorld made me question if I could ever buy a DPMS product. There, on the end cap in the sporting goods department, was some sort of airsoft gun bearing the DPMS brand. It was even called a Panther and made to look like an AR. What sort of self-respecting black rifle maker hawks $45 toy guns at Walmart?

Sorry DPMS users, I realize I'm probably overreacting and not being fair. The airsoft gun is probably no reflection on your DPMS firearms. I'm sure you've got a wonderful firearm. But, still, wouldn't you just as soon NOT see your brand at Walmart?
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 4:56:59 PM EDT
My buddy said his son bought one the other day ... an AirSoft DPMS Kitty Kat ....

Doesn't Armalite sell airsoft as well?
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:01:28 PM EDT
Doesn't all that stuff come from japan anyway?

It seems IMI authorized the use of UZI and all that on airsoft products, hell, it makes them money from licensing, right?
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:02:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 5:04:03 PM EDT by Dog1]

Originally Posted By COLT6721A3:
My buddy said his son bought one the other day ... an AirSoft DPMS Kitty Kat ....

Doesn't Armalite sell airsoft as well?



Yes Armalite does...burn them at the stake!

3 pages and a lock...hopefully before then.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:03:26 PM EDT
please...

some companies license their logo/name/trademark to these companies, but in many cases the off-shore toy makers just copy what they see, if you wish to use your logic then I hate to inform you that you have to also besmeech Colt, KAC, H&K and others that have had their name and logo used on toys from the PRC
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:04:11 PM EDT
Saw it in Wal-Mart a couple days ago. Three kids were asking if I would buy one for them(under 18 I guess).
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:04:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher:
Until today I held D.P.M.S. in fairly high esteem. I figured they were just as good a choice as a lot of other AR makers. But what I saw today in WallyWorld made me question if I could ever buy a DPMS product. There, on the end cap in the sporting goods department, was some sort of airsoft gun bearing the DPMS brand. It was even called a Panther and made to look like an AR. What sort of self-respecting black rifle maker hawks $45 toy guns at Walmart?

Sorry DPMS users, I realize I'm probably overreacting and not being fair. The airsoft gun is probably no reflection on your DPMS firearms. I'm sure you've got a wonderful firearm. But, still, wouldn't you just as soon NOT see your brand at Walmart?





Ummmmm.................

I have two kittykat airsoft carbines from DPMS.........they shoot great and me and my GF like running around
shooting each other in the backyard.

I love 'em, they rest next to my real DPMS carbines......


As far as them being at Wal-Mart, well, its gives them more coverage for selling them, Randy Luth is the man!
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:06:57 PM EDT
DPMS sucks anyway. I would never buy any thing from them. Yes Armalite sells airsoft crap.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:08:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gunzilla:
please...

some companies license their logo/name/trademark to these companies, but in many cases the off-shore toy makers just copy what they see, if you wish to use your logic then I hate to inform you that you have to also besmeech Colt, KAC, H&K and others that have had their name and logo used on toys from the PRC



I can sorta see that argument. But this wasn't a copy of a 1911 or even a copy of an AR-15. It was a DPMS Panther "Kitty Kat." Seems to me there's a big difference between airsoft makers knocking off famous guns and an airsoft product being marketed as if it were actually made by a major brand of firearm. Again, this wasn't Daisy's airsoft verson of an AR-15. This was a DPMS product. Yeah, I know they don't make it but that's what the box was trying to iimply.


Oh well, like I said, I'm probably overreacting. If the DPMS users are cool with it, who am I to question it?
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:10:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rogue007:

I have two kittykat airsoft carbines from DPMS.........they shoot great and me and my GF like running around
shooting each other in the backyard.

I love 'em, they rest next to my real DPMS carbines......



OK. That's good enough for me. I stand corrected.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:15:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 5:16:05 PM EDT by scottryan]

Originally Posted By Gunzilla:
please...

some companies license their logo/name/trademark to these companies, but in many cases the off-shore toy makers just copy what they see, if you wish to use your logic then I hate to inform you that you have to also besmeech Colt, KAC, H&K and others that have had their name and logo used on toys from the PRC



Nice logic on your part

Colt, KAC, and HK do not authorize their name to be put on Airsoft stuff.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:16:52 PM EDT
well, no big deal k mart sells a ferrari remote control car for $4.00 but it wouldnt stop me from buying a real ferrari if I could

[/b]Marketing bro welcome to the future of making money


????JMHO

Hanna
Bethesda
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:36:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 5:37:20 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

Doesn't Wilson Combat also sell airsoft stuff with their name on it?


www.wilsoncombat.com/info_westernarms.htm
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:37:02 PM EDT
yup, it's just a damn toy. BFD
mpi
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:40:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 5:40:33 PM EDT by COLT6721A3]
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:46:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:59:14 PM EDT
I Looked at an Oly Arms Catalog about a year ago. They sell a $300.00 Airsoft rifle... I don't understand why some airsoft people will pay shitloads of cash for a fake weapon. Hell I saw this one dude that had a Airshit toy with a real ARMs handguard, real aimpoint, and real flip up sights.

Nathan
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:07:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BravoCompanyUSA:
Airsoft licensing is a cash cow. I think most major manufacturers are licensing their name out.



Yep... contrary to what you may read on the Internet anyway, even some of the big names like Colt and HK and..... I have met with reps from Tokyo Marui and they are very professional and very business.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 10:30:52 PM EDT
Well, I wouldn't buy a DPMS... The fact that they have their logos on toys means nothing. I've seen the KAC toys and COlt toys before.. I don't know if any of these products are affiliated withthe companies or not, I don't care.

Far as I'm concerned it's a good way to get the guns out there to have the brand name in the eyes of possible buyers.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 10:52:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By Gunzilla:
please...

some companies license their logo/name/trademark to these companies, but in many cases the off-shore toy makers just copy what they see, if you wish to use your logic then I hate to inform you that you have to also besmeech Colt, KAC, H&K and others that have had their name and logo used on toys from the PRC



Nice logic on your part

Colt, KAC, and HK do not authorize their name to be put on Airsoft stuff.



I have a toy M16, circa 1978, that says "Colt" on the side, bigger than shit. Was my favorite toy, btw.

Does that cheapen your real Colt?
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 11:09:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 11:31:02 PM EDT by FlyingFive0]
No Colt products huh? How embarrasing that a cheap ass company like Colt would put their name on airsoft pistols and rifles
Another failed attempt to bash DPMS over nothing (IMHO)



www.bb-gun.org.uk/airsoft_pistols_Colt.htm

www.airsoft-guide.com/gear.asp?product=1335
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 11:24:20 PM EDT
Colt has allowed their names to be put on crap, like knives from united cutlery, and so has S&W who has gone a bit further in their branding. Auto-ordnance makes paintball guns, ruger makes golf clubs, and HK has Benchmade make knives for them. All the gun companies do it or license their designs for various airsoft guns etc. it is not an uncommon thing. HEll, it is almost necessary these days.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:22:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FlyingFive0:
No Colt products huh? How embarrasing that a cheap ass company like Colt would put their name on airsoft pistols and rifles
Another failed attempt to bash DPMS over nothing (IMHO)



Brother, reread the original post. I wasn't bashing DPMS firearms. Also, FWIW, I don't have a dog in the Colt fight. I own a RRA . . .
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:23:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher:
Until today I held D.P.M.S. in fairly high esteem. I figured they were just as good a choice as a lot of other AR makers. But what I saw today in WallyWorld made me question if I could ever buy a DPMS product. There, on the end cap in the sporting goods department, was some sort of airsoft gun bearing the DPMS brand. It was even called a Panther and made to look like an AR. What sort of self-respecting black rifle maker hawks $45 toy guns at Walmart?

Sorry DPMS users, I realize I'm probably overreacting and not being fair. The airsoft gun is probably no reflection on your DPMS firearms. I'm sure you've got a wonderful firearm. But, still, wouldn't you just as soon NOT see your brand at Walmart?



Yea, but really, who cares? Selling their name for an airsoft product that's being sold at Wallyworld doesn't make their rifles shoot any different.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:24:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dog1:

Originally Posted By COLT6721A3:
My buddy said his son bought one the other day ... an AirSoft DPMS Kitty Kat ....

Doesn't Armalite sell airsoft as well?



Yes Armalite does...burn them at the stake!

3 pages and a lock...hopefully before then.



Armalite also makes a $400 paintball gun.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:25:07 AM EDT
ibtl cause thats where this thread is heading, fast.



and on the topic, who cares? it makes them money and thats what companies usually are set out to do.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:30:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:48:03 AM EDT
Another great and informative AR technical thread! Thanks, I learned a lot about AR's reading this.

IBTL
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:51:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By Gunzilla:
please...

some companies license their logo/name/trademark to these companies, but in many cases the off-shore toy makers just copy what they see, if you wish to use your logic then I hate to inform you that you have to also besmeech Colt, KAC, H&K and others that have had their name and logo used on toys from the PRC



Nice logic on your part

Colt, KAC, and HK do not authorize their name to be put on Airsoft stuff.



I have a toy M16, circa 1978, that says "Colt" on the side, bigger than shit. Was my favorite toy, btw.

Does that cheapen your real Colt?



All of those companies have licensed out to toy makers at one point or another, but truth and fact seldom have much bearing on here...
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:17:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher:
Sorry DPMS users...



Great thread. Almost as worthwhile as your "pictures of bayonets on shotguns" thread.

On the topic of Airsoft being a toy, more than a few trainers see them as useful training tools. From a local orgainzation's Advanced Force on Force Clinic description:

Equipment: An Airsoft gas blowback gun that matches your own carry gun, and two magazines for the Airsoft gun. One source for Airsoft GBB guns is Airsoft Atlanta. If you carry a 1911 or Glock handgun, bring your normal carry holster and mag pouches.


Hard as it is to hear, the guy and his GF shooting each other with DPMS Airsofts in the back yard, the fat Airsoft kid, and your average paint baller all have more practice engaging a real opponent than all the couch commandos and range geeks combined!
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:21:02 AM EDT
I expect some airsoft bashing due to the high poser content, but come on! Have any of you ever used them for training? They are an excelent choice for force on force training. Identical to your acual firearm in weight and feel. The pistols function exactly like the real thing. Slaming a company because they make a valid training tool that also happens to be used by people to play a game doesn't make sense to me. Maybe all the companies that make pistols used in stock class IPSC are crap too. After all, IPSC is just a game too.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:27:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BushmasterGuy77:
I don't understand why some airsoft people will pay shitloads of cash for a fake weapon.

Nathan



Because you can shoot people with airsoft without killing them!!!

P.S. I don't own anything airsoft, but I do own a shit load of paintball stuff. It is fun shooting people without killing them.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:31:00 AM EDT
Money Money Money

(and hopefuly a new generation)

Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:35:02 AM EDT
I've never owned or shot an airsoft anything, but I have played many a paintball game. It's a hell of a lotta fun and as said above can really be an eye opener in regard to tactics. Pain is a hell of a teacher, throw some paintballs in the freezer the night before a game then dial up the fps on the gun. Not something you're soon to forget. LOL
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:48:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 6:49:29 AM EDT by MrAmazing]
Just one man's opinion here but I believe that if the extra revenue allows them to continue improving their products through R&D, or keep costs down that's great. I don't know how many people here own their own company, but even the smallest amount of extra capital can make a huge difference in what you can do. Also,how many of the young people who get an Airsoft AR or other copy will grow up to purchase the real thing because their toy brought them joy as a kid and now they can get the real deal?!?!?!
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:01:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gunzilla:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By Gunzilla:
please...

some companies license their logo/name/trademark to these companies, but in many cases the off-shore toy makers just copy what they see, if you wish to use your logic then I hate to inform you that you have to also besmeech Colt, KAC, H&K and others that have had their name and logo used on toys from the PRC



Nice logic on your part

Colt, KAC, and HK do not authorize their name to be put on Airsoft stuff.



I have a toy M16, circa 1978, that says "Colt" on the side, bigger than shit. Was my favorite toy, btw.

Does that cheapen your real Colt?



All of those companies have licensed out to toy makers at one point or another, but truth and fact seldom have much bearing on here...



True, but I doubt they put there name on real Airsoft stuff so crooked people can pass it off as the real deal on ebay. Most is this stuff is made in China.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:01:28 AM EDT
Something I dont understand. Why do people bash airsofters? They're doing their thing, and they're not bashing you for wanting to shoot paper, why are you bashing them?

How many chairborne rangers are sitting there right now, wearing their tactical vest, with 12 magazines, pistol on their hip, m4gery sitting next to the computer waiting for the 'Communists/Liberals/British/Zombie Space Aliens, etc.' to attack? Are the airsofters sapping your mojo?

Come on people - is it really such a crime that someone is doing something similar to your hobby (they shoot people, you shooting paper) and have fun running around in the woods like little hellions?
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:10:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:
True, but I doubt they put there name on real Airsoft stuff so crooked people can pass it off as the real deal on ebay. Most is this stuff is made in China.

Bingo. Dont hate airsoft - hate the crooked ass people.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:14:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By azathoth:
I expect some airsoft bashing due to the high poser content, but come on! Have any of you ever used them for training? They are an excelent choice for force on force training. Identical to your acual firearm in weight and feel. The pistols function exactly like the real thing. Slaming a company because they make a valid training tool that also happens to be used by people to play a game doesn't make sense to me. Maybe all the companies that make pistols used in stock class IPSC are crap too. After all, IPSC is just a game too.



I would hope that those using airsoft guns for training use something a little more realistic than the $45 model they sell at Walmart . . .
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:16:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rlcanon:
Great thread. Almost as worthwhile as your "pictures of bayonets on shotguns" thread.



Just a point of clarification. That wasn't my thread. I merely commented on it . . .
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:21:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DPMS:
WOW if you wont buy a DPMS due to an Airsoft toy I guess its time to just stop buying guns and start making your own. The Airsoft and Paint ball market is huge! Most of the time you don’t have a choice they just use your name . . . We don’t make the Airsoft guns. A company called Softair USA here is there web site SOFTAIR
Oh by the way I guess don’t buy a Desert Eagle, Taurus, Sig, Thompson, UZI, Smith and Wesson, IMI, Beretta, Kalashnikov or an AK, Mauser, Colt, Olympic Arms, Armalite, STI, Wilson Combat, H&K, KAC, Walther, Glock, FN, Auto Ordnance Remington and the list goes on and on.

I am not trying to be a Dick here I just want you to think a little before people jump on the Bash DPMS band wagon.

Dustin



I said it before. I'll say it again. I stand corrected.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:24:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Doesn't Wilson Combat also sell airsoft stuff with their name on it?


www.wilsoncombat.com/info_westernarms.htm



Western Arms makes $300-$400 airsoft pistols. I think most other airsoft pistols cost $100 or so. Supposedly Western Arms Airsoft pistols are well sought after in Japan and such because they are true quality reproductions- kinda like a collector's grade replica.

Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:27:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MrMojoRising:
I've never owned or shot an airsoft anything, but I have played many a paintball game. It's a hell of a lotta fun and as said above can really be an eye opener in regard to tactics. Pain is a hell of a teacher, throw some paintballs in the freezer the night before a game then dial up the fps on the gun. Not something you're soon to forget. LOL



dumbass. What paintballs are you using that can be frozen without distorting enough to ruin them?

give me a break.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:36:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JosephR:

Originally Posted By MrMojoRising:
I've never owned or shot an airsoft anything, but I have played many a paintball game. It's a hell of a lotta fun and as said above can really be an eye opener in regard to tactics. Pain is a hell of a teacher, throw some paintballs in the freezer the night before a game then dial up the fps on the gun. Not something you're soon to forget. LOL



dumbass. What paintballs are you using that can be frozen without distorting enough to ruin them?

give me a break.

I have to admit I used to play paintball before schedules changed and I wasn't able to meet up with my fellow deputy friends that also played. Paintballs can be frozen and shot without any problems with distortion etc. Just not right to call the guy a dumbass when he is right
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:37:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 7:37:45 AM EDT by FlyingFive0]
I am also glad to finally see DPMS come to a thread and defend themselves! I was getting tired of doing it by myself.


ETA: I know there are a lot of others out there too!
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:39:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MrMojoRising:
I've never owned or shot an airsoft anything, but I have played many a paintball game. It's a hell of a lotta fun and as said above can really be an eye opener in regard to tactics . . .



Call me a nambypants but I have never approved of paintball. It seems to violate every instinct I've ever been taught about safe gun handling. It also seems to go contrary to teaching children a healthy respect for guns and their power. I never allowed my son to play paintball and I wouldn't play it myself. If other people do it and enjoy it, that's fine. It's just not for me . . .

I do understand the value of paintball and airsoft as a teaching tool, however. But I think that's the point. Such games no doubt do prepare us for pointing a gun at another human and pulling the trigger. I don't consider shooting other people to be a sport and my job doesn't involve the responsibiliity to make those kinds of choices, nor do I hope I ever have to make that decision. Again, it's a personal choice and I'm not faulting anyone else's choice.


Originally Posted By MrMojoRising: . . . Pain is a hell of a teacher, throw some paintballs in the freezer the night before a game then dial up the fps on the gun. Not something you're soon to forget. LOL


This just might be an example of what I mean by paintball sending the wrong message about safe gun handling . . .
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:58:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FlyingFive0:
I am also glad to finally see DPMS come to a thread and defend themselves! I was getting tired of doing it by myself.


ETA: I know there are a lot of others out there too!



You are not alone...I do it too..
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 8:00:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 8:22:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DPMS:
WOW if you wont buy a DPMS due to an Airsoft toy I guess its time to just stop buying guns and start making your own. The Airsoft and Paint ball market is huge! Most of the time you don’t have a choice they just use your name. I remember getting a GI Joe guy (Grunt) and he had a Colt M16A1 and Man that was awesome then I broke his thumbs off cause I used him so much!! I guess Colt sold out to GI Joe?

Playing Army in my back yard my favorite guns were a M16, AK-47 and an UZI and do you know what my first guns were a COLT M16, A Russian AK-47 under folder and A IMI UZI. And I still have them.

We don’t make the Airsoft guns. A company called Softair USA here is there web site SOFTAIR
Oh by the way I guess don’t buy a Desert Eagle, Taurus, Sig, Thompson, UZI, Smith and Wesson, IMI, Beretta, Kalashnikov or an AK, Mauser, Colt, Olympic Arms, Armalite, STI, Wilson Combat, H&K, KAC, Walther, Glock, FN, Auto Ordnance Remington and the list goes on and on.

I am not trying to be a Dick here I just want you to think a little before people jump on the Bash DPMS band wagon.

Dustin



Hell man, I don't care who you license your name to. I just wish you'd do a reasonable job of getting the tool marks and gouges off your parts, and the forge lines off your lowers, so they don't gouge your hand when you hold the piece!

That's not even to mention the lower that had the front lugs cut off center, so that the upper tilted to the left when mounted.

Maybe if you'd spend less time do doing deals w/the Japs, and more time doing some quality control at your shop you wouldn't need to look for extra money in the aftermarket, because you'd be selling a lot more of the real stuff.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 8:35:16 AM EDT
never played airsoft eitehr because I figure it would work like when I was a kid and go like this

"I SHOT YOU. YOU'RE DEAD!"

"Nah uh, YOU MISSED"

"NO I SHOT YOU"

"YOU CAN"T SHOOT HIM I ALREADY SHOT YOU"



but i have played paintball and that's alot of fun
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 8:42:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By shamayim:

Originally Posted By DPMS:
WOW if you wont buy a DPMS due to an Airsoft toy I guess its time to just stop buying guns and start making your own. The Airsoft and Paint ball market is huge! Most of the time you don’t have a choice they just use your name. I remember getting a GI Joe guy (Grunt) and he had a Colt M16A1 and Man that was awesome then I broke his thumbs off cause I used him so much!! I guess Colt sold out to GI Joe?

Playing Army in my back yard my favorite guns were a M16, AK-47 and an UZI and do you know what my first guns were a COLT M16, A Russian AK-47 under folder and A IMI UZI. And I still have them.

We don’t make the Airsoft guns. A company called Softair USA here is there web site SOFTAIR
Oh by the way I guess don’t buy a Desert Eagle, Taurus, Sig, Thompson, UZI, Smith and Wesson, IMI, Beretta, Kalashnikov or an AK, Mauser, Colt, Olympic Arms, Armalite, STI, Wilson Combat, H&K, KAC, Walther, Glock, FN, Auto Ordnance Remington and the list goes on and on.

I am not trying to be a Dick here I just want you to think a little before people jump on the Bash DPMS band wagon.

Dustin



Hell man, I don't care who you license your name to. I just wish you'd do a reasonable job of getting the tool marks and gouges off your parts, and the forge lines off your lowers, so they don't gouge your hand when you hold the piece!

That's not even to mention the lower that had the front lugs cut off center, so that the upper tilted to the left when mounted.

Maybe if you'd spend less time do doing deals w/the Japs, and more time doing some quality control at your shop you wouldn't need to look for extra money in the aftermarket, because you'd be selling a lot more of the real stuff.



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