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Posted: 3/27/2006 8:38:38 AM EDT
I just purchased a new DPMS A15. Im curious how it measures up to Bushmaster as well as other AR15s
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:42:53 AM EDT
Enjoy your new rifle and don't worry about it.

Clean it, shoot it, repeat.

Welcome to the site!
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:44:40 AM EDT
There fine. Just buy lots of ammo, and shoot it.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:46:28 AM EDT
Thanks!

Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:55:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4arc:
Enjoy your new rifle and don't worry about it.

Clean it, shoot it, repeat.

Welcome to the site!

Very well put!
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:01:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 9:26:36 AM EDT by chakarji]
JCV

The way I see it ,its prety much the SAME<----- uh ohh may start a fight here,,,,,

Look, other than marketing and buisness practices they will prety much do the same functions and be as reliable as each other,
I have an RRA and the only advantage I see is probably that it has a 2 stage NM triger( wich i love)
but you can add that if you want.

untill you start getting into custom high end high dollar guns it wont much matter,,,,like a lmt upper with novesk barrel etc etc. the difference will be negligable.

as far as precision goes, if someone says " duhhh my gun shoots 1/2 moa" Big F_cking Deal, thats with a shooting bag, standing side by side unless you have been training to shoot for a living you wont tell the difference between a DPMS AND A bushmaster.
I used to shoot TRAP and SKEET,,,, I shot with beretta ( 687 EELL) almost a $7,000 set up with the extra barrel and the tube set, but it didnt run $6,000 better than my friends al 390 auto,,,,,,,,


I happen to like DPMS, ( Ihate the panter logo on everything) but i still like them

have fun and shoot it often.

buy 5 more and a shit load of ammo and a bigger shit load of mags and you are set
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:22:57 AM EDT
Thanks,

Reason I asked is because Ive been getting the old "My bushmaster gets considerable better groups than my buddy's DPMS does" comments fairly often when I mention that Im interested in buying one.

Ive had plenty of experience with the M16A2 in the service, and my DPMS appears to be just as good as I remember the M16 being. I dont own a Bushmaster and havent had an oportunity to test drive one yet.

Thanks again for the input though.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:27:39 AM EDT
Bushmaster is second only to Colt
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:36:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hylton:
Bushmaster is second only to Colt

This statment is a matter of person opinion my friend.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:54:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 10:47:06 AM EDT
I agree just shoot it and have fun, but be safe. If you have problems post them. If you have fun, post it too.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:27:54 AM EDT
DPMS has come a long way since they first came on the AR scene. DPMS sells a lot of parts, so some novice puts their parts into a parts gun and for whatever reason the gun doesn't work. It couldn't be the person, so it must be the parts, right??? That's how a bad reputation is born. DPMS stuff is very good quality now. The rifle will likely outlive you--and be more fucntional 30 years from now than you, too!

As for Bushmaster--they had some serious growing pains, too. Before they got the military contracts they were an average, so-so quality manufacturer. I got a big lemmon of an upper from them in the early 90's. Real POS in fit, finish and function. I returned it. The last lower I bought from them 5 years ago was excellent.

Most companies live and learn from their mistakes and improve, but a reputation seems to stay around forever.

As for accuracy--there are so many variables involved that it would be hard to make any real comparison from one manufacturer to another. Get some good ammo and learn some good trigger and bench technique and you will be suprised what you can wring out of it.

So go out and blast and have fun and don't look back!
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:33:09 AM EDT
2 to 0 in my gun safe (and that is nothing against BM - just dont currently own one) Now these are lowers only as I pick and chose my parts carefully but if the workmanship on their lowers is any indication my opinion would be that you made a good decision.

welcome to ARFCOM

and buy more ammo
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:34:47 AM EDT
Don't worry about it. DPMS makes generally good stuff, Bushmaster makes generally good stuff. Both have shat out some real turds occasionally. If YOUR gun functions 100% and groups well, then you have an AR as nice as any other brand.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:36:15 AM EDT
I hate to say this, being a Colt guy and all but I was recently forced to use DPMS C7 clone uppers to complete my C7 projects and though there IS an important issue I must discuss, the actual overall quality and fit of the upper receivers was excellent in all aspects except ONE:

for some bizarre reason, when DPMS makes their C7 style uppers they machine the charging handle track WAYYYYY too narrow for GI chraging handle ears. Now, the DPMS charging handle is make to a smaller spec on the guide ears so they work perfectly....BUT forget using a GI charging handle.

for some other bizarre reason this occurs ONLY with the C7 from what I understand......

be that as it may, the rest of the fit and finish on the DPMS uppers was phenomenal....


*note: the DPMS uppers I was forced to use were sold through Fulton Armory as Fulton Uppers but it is DPMS who is the contractor for them from what I understand. I cannot guarantee the veracity of that statement.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:44:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:51:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hylton:
Bushmaster is second only to Colt


Then it's possible that my Bushy came out from the wrong side of the line, since it'd come third after my RRA and DPMS. As a matter of fact, I sold it when I bought the RRA.
It is very possible that Bushmaster makes awesome rifles, but unfortunately mine was not such


- Ice
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:02:25 PM EDT
DPMS has been my choice for all of my major components.......
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:52:26 PM EDT
I will never own a Bushmaster, until they start supporting 3-Gun. Even then, they have a long way to catch to companies like JP Enterprises, DPMS and Cavalry Arms. Like others have said, no matter who makes a rifle, EVERYONE has their good runs and bad ones. Just the way it goes in mass production (although never had any bad parts from JP). Too, Randy Luth (owner) and his crew are some of the nicest and most helpful people you could imagine working with. I love them and will always run them hard.

Enjoy the rifle, and hope that you shoot it instead of leaving it in the safe like it seems a lot of folks here do.

SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic
249th MP Detachment (EACF)
Camp Humphreys, ROK
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:32:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:45:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 1:46:40 PM EDT by MrJames]
I have owned quite a few AR's. I currently have a Bushy and a JP. I have had DPMS also. All three companies produce excellent weapons, and I would buy more of each in the future. Rock River, Bushy, DPMS, JP etc..... All good stuff.

The only thing that I have seen from DPMS that I did not care for is the new .308 carbine. I have had a chance to play with one and it was very loose between the upper and lower. It could have just been a turd that got loose though. I have never seen a problem like that before from them.

Shoot and enjoy. If you don't like it, call me...... I could always use another one.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:54:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By uscbigdawg1:
I will never own a Bushmaster, until they start supporting 3-Gun. Even then, they have a long way to catch to companies like JP Enterprises, DPMS and Cavalry Arms. Like others have said, no matter who makes a rifle, EVERYONE has their good runs and bad ones. Just the way it goes in mass production (although never had any bad parts from JP). Too, Randy Luth (owner) and his crew are some of the nicest and most helpful people you could imagine working with. I love them and will always run them hard.

Enjoy the rifle, and hope that you shoot it instead of leaving it in the safe like it seems a lot of folks here do.

SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic
249th MP Detachment (EACF)
Camp Humphreys, ROK




Thanks for the laugh, I needed that today
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:15:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 2:20:02 PM EDT by easy610]
Buy both!!

Hookers -n- blow!!!

ARs suck!!!!

AKs suck!!!!!

Glocks go KaBoom!!!!!

Do it for the children...aka It kills little children.....

Sorry..running thru the normal ARFCOM responses....

Ooooo I almost forgot IBTL.

<­BR>




************OK for real***************

DPMS products owned......
-two lite-weight CAR-15s
-one .308 AP4 (a .308 M4)
-one .308 18" bull precision rifle
-.....sold my bro a DPMS M4 (or their version of same...)
-sold a buddy a DPMS version of the M4...

All are running like champs. Very pleased.


Way to go DPMS!

ps ...also own a Colt M4 and a RRA middy...and have owned BMs in the past.....
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:41:05 PM EDT
Most Bushmasters and DPMS rifles shoot better than we can shoot when people are shooting back. The difference is this simple.

When I called Bushmaster to ask why they use blue extractor buffers in their 16" guns, they said it didn't matter. Maybe not to Joe the range guy on a Sunday picnic and plink, but to an armed pro who is banking on that weapon working through a gunfight without a failure does care about the color of that buffer.

I know the guys at BM know they're stuff usually, and I probably talked to the exception not the rule. I don't get that feeling when I talk to the guys at DPMS. I get the feeling that they're shooters who live in the real world, offer good and great products at competitive prices, and support the sport that they rely on for income.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:43:35 PM EDT
I cant believe my eyes, DPMS being compared to Bushmaster, what’s next a Highpoint vs HK thread?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 4:00:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:21:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hylton:
I cant believe my eyes, DPMS being compared to Bushmaster, what’s next a Highpoint vs HK thread?



OHH man you must DRINK IT,,,,,,,,,,,,,
how much better is your bushy than a dpms, or my RRA or his fulton,or her whatever?????????


I dont get it, when you shoot your bushmaster does it cut to a part in the movieTHE MATRIX, and you see the bullet hit the target and you go OHHHHHH AHHHH NO
It F_cking does not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!does it shoot around walls?????? NO, kill moon beings? NOpe not that either,,, oh I know, I got it,,,, it attracts chicks,,,, <--- doubt that too, ok ok this must be it,,, it gets 1/999999 MOA! nope not that either



YOU DRINK the bushy coolaid, thats cool, but why would you compare a DPMS to a Highpoint
thats like saying a DPMS is a yugo????? and your bushmaster is a F_ucking rollsroyce.... pal your off the shelf bushm,aster aint no rollsroyce, its just as good or shitty as my RRA or his DPMS,.,.,.

you have proof that your bushmaster is better than any gun mfr I quoted up top?????? I didnt think so....................................

also dont say somthing dumb like " well DPMS built a stupid gun along time ago" DUUUUU

well bushmaster put out piece of crap CARBON 15s

maybe the snake on the side makes you think your d_ick is longer or somthing

P.S,,,,,,,, it is a technical forum, so why dont you back up your claim of supremacy insted of using 3 word responces like,,,, DUUUUUU mine is better than yours DUUUUUUUU


Sorry for the rant dont take it personally
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:36:57 PM EDT
I would honestly take a DPMS rifle over a Bushmaster any time.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:51:58 PM EDT
DPMS was my choice when researching before I bought an AR. Quality was the 1st factor. Price coming 2nd. You just can't beat the DPMS on the price for the quality that you get.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:12:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:35:55 AM EDT
I just purchased my first AR-15, DPMS A15. I've put around 500 rounds of cheap ammo through it and haven't had any problems yet. Gun is put together much tighter than previous bushmaster/olympic arms rifles I've gone shooting with. I don't think you can go wrong with the DPMS but then again these are just my thoughts.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 8:40:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 9:47:29 AM EDT by Hylton]
Bushmaster:
Base Model: $ 1230.00

Agencies using Bushmaster Rifles:

Standard Issue: Blackwater USA PMC.
U. S. Border Patrol
U. S. Department of Defense
U. S. Department of Homeland Security
U. S. Department of Parks and Recreation
U. S. Customs
U. S. Drug Enforcement Agency
U. S. Marshal's Service
U. S. Secret Service
Alabama Highway Patrol
California Department of Justice
California Highway Patrol
Utah State Highway Patrol
Los Angeles Police Department
Georgia Bureau of Investigation
City of Philadelphia
City of Salt Lake
City of San Jose Police Department
Tennessee Highway Patrol
TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY

Bushmaster rifles also see combat on a daily bases in Iraq and Afghanistan



DPMS:
Base Modeal: $899.00 US

Agencies using DPMS Rifles:

Unknown:

DPMS rifles have not seen the battle field

The Argument is over.

Bushmaster Firearms is the number one seller of AR15 rifles in the US according to the BATF. Is it because of their low prices? Of course not, Stag Arms, RRA, Olympic Arms and DPMS all make a cheaper platform for customers, but for some reason people keep buying Bushmaster.

Now make your argument:
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 9:13:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 9:46:21 AM EDT by NDT3]
Why is it the same people always show up to bash DPMS.

I am not going to bash any rifle/product that I havn't personally owned and shot.


Edited to add:

This is what I was trying to say.

I own 2 DPMS rifles. One CMMG upper is on the way. So how would I be qualified to bash Oly, Armalite, BM, etc..... I am not. It seems like a lot of people around here bash brands they have never owned. I especially like the "A friend of mine was taking a class and_________"

This summer I took a Tac. Carbine class at Defensive Edge. A Colt a guy was shooting was having a lot of trouble. Does that mean I should start bashing Colt?? Heck no I wish I had one.

I will take them all


Link Posted: 3/28/2006 9:40:22 AM EDT
sorry, my experiance with a bushmaster wasn't the best. prarie dog shooting one day, every couple shots needed the forward assist no matter what mag i used. I used the same mag in the olympic arms ar15 and they fed fine but the rifle was all over the place. The bushmaster was a varmiter setup that had around 800 shots fired through it already and was very clean. The olympic arms was some stainless heavy setup (never wanted to look into it). Loved the accuracy of the bushmaster but hated the need to help it feed every round.

Not trying to bash Bushmaster, just saying that my experiance with the only one I shot was not so good. Could have just been a bad one in the bunch, who knows.

DPMS may be more law enforcement and never go to Iraq but i wouldnt give the accuracy and dependability of my DPMS up for anything as of now.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 9:43:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JCV:
I just purchased a new DPMS A15. Im curious how it measures up to Bushmaster as well as other AR15s



Welcome to AR15.com......

A this-vs-that question is going to bring out nothing but personal opinions/arguments......

Dont worry about it, enjoy your new rifle...... shoot it often, be safe and have a good time......

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:02:28 AM EDT
BW and Bushmaster are somewhat intertwined. I'm not so enthused by the simple fact that they use them as "standard issue" when many of the weapons on their contracts are provided by the DoS. Kind of like Blackwater and Uncle Mikes teaming up. Still good stuff, but it's not any better because someone else endorses it.

You fail to mention the agencies who returned their Bushmasters some time ago because of that pesky little staking issue. Not knocking them, I have a BM match barrel on my SPR. Because Ford mustangs outsell Ferrari's one would have me believe that the mustang is a better performer?

That dog don't hunt.
Personally, I think FN is better than Bushmaster, as I carried an FN through several firefights in the Army. After seeing some of the stuff in the Colt Factory I don't think as much of the prancing pony as I used to. A well maintained, well driven Stag rifle is better than a dust collector any day. The big guys are just mad because the smaller companies are gouging the market with the same quality at lower prices.

Can you feel the difference in the aluminum when you shoot that lower? I doubt it. Space age tolerances are nice for a space shuttle, but we're talking rifles here, not NASA.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:55:28 AM EDT
I am old enough that I remember when BMs were the "new kid" and they were trashed by Colt lovers....The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Cheers!
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:57:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
I would honestly take a DPMS rifle over a Bushmaster any time.


+1

I used to like BM but it seems like their products have gone to crap
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:00:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hylton:
Bushmaster:
Base Model: $ 1230.00

Agencies using Bushmaster Rifles:


U. S. Drug Enforcement Agency

Now make your argument:


WTF Where did you come up with that crap?.....that would be RRA not BM
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:03:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RRA0211:
I used to like BM but it seems like their products have gone to crap


That happens to many companies that get awarded a government contract, they lose the need to perform and get sloppy/lazy...like another major brand name I don't need to name
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:11:30 PM EDT
How about we compare their 308's.

My next 308 purchase is probably going to be a DPMS AP4. When I was a noob on ArfCom, I was convinced into never buying a DPMS product, but now I have learned better.

Brand loyalty will never have any effect on how a rifle shoots. If it works, it works.

Go shoot it.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:19:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RRA0211:

Originally Posted By Hylton:
Bushmaster:
Base Model: $ 1230.00

Agencies using Bushmaster Rifles:


U. S. Drug Enforcement Agency


Now make your argument:


WTF Where did you come up with that crap?.....that would be RRA not BM



If BFI sold so much as one rifle to DEA they can and undoubtedly will claim them as customers.

There are a lot of people on this board that have DPMS uppers and are satisfied with the quality. I have one, and was not satisfied. Your mileage may vary. If it's a toy, the risk might be worth the rifle. I would not use a DPMS in any role where a broken part would cost me more than points or pride.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:29:11 PM EDT
bad experience with dpms, would choose bushmaster or a crap built bushmaster over a dpms.


Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:34:55 PM EDT
DPMS 308's are backordered somthing like 3-4 months and I bet that's not because they are junkhe
This topic is like compairing Ford and Chevy or Sony and Panasonic ect...... The reason their is so many AR makers out there is because everyone likes somthing different than the other guy.

I don't own a Bushy, but I like them and I like my DPMS.

To each his own.

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:37:12 PM EDT
I have had many more Bushmasters, Colts and Rock River Arms in for repair than I have had for DPMS. I have sold more DPMS' than all other brands combined. I'll stand behind DPMS 100%.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 1:39:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 1:40:00 PM EDT by Rob96]

DPMS rifles have not seen the battle field



Got proof. DPMS will be updating there site with who they have supplied rifles to. There are DPMS rifles in both Iraq and Afghanistan. And if I remember correctly they are in use by Jordans Special Forces. Me thinks the Bushy whores like to sit back and stroke it while reading the list.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 1:46:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 1:57:49 PM EDT by chakarji]
Bushmaster:
Base Model: $ 1230.00 <- what is a base model????????
so the cheapes bushmaster is 1,230.00 =DAMMMM i could buy colt 6920s all day long for that man u got had bro,,, CDNN has bushmaster m4s for 790.00,,,,....,,,,....,,,

Agencies using Bushmaster Rifles:

Standard Issue: Blackwater USA PMC.<--- BFD thats not a govt agcy
U. S. Border Patrol<-----------------BFD mexicans dont usualy require shootingU. S. Department of Defense<-------LIE! US armed forces used only FN contract ARs,,, and maybe a colt and a LMT,, and in a rare case another company here and there, remember we are taking M16s not ar15s
U. S. Department of Homeland Security<----use 4 or more different manufacturers
U. S. Department of Parks and Recreation<----ohh BFD ranger smith will surly stop yogi bear and booboo this timeU. S. Customs<-------------use 4 or more different manufacturers
U. S. Drug Enforcement Agency<-----------RRA?????????
U. S. Marshal's Service<-------use 4 or more different manufacturers
U. S. Secret Service<-----------use 4 or more different manufacturers
Alabama Highway Patrol<------------------not fed agcy
California Department of Justice<----------not fed agcy
California Highway Patrol<-----------------not fed agcy
Utah State Highway Patrol<----------------not fed agcy
Los Angeles Police Department<-----------not fed agcy
Georgia Bureau of Investigation<----------not fed agcy
City of Philadelphia<-----------------------not fed agcy
City of Salt Lake<-------------------------not fed agcy
City of San Jose Police Department<------not fed agcy
Tennessee Highway Patrol<---------------not fed agcy
TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY<not fed agcy

Bushmaster rifles also see combat on a daily bases in Iraq and Afghanistan
<-----only in the hands of BLACK WATER,,,,,,,,, not with US ground forces of any kind



come on man stop with the silly boasting,, you have a GOOD gun but it aint the best by any means and it is not just behind a colt



so chill it outtttttttt man get off the drink
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 2:13:18 PM EDT
Chakarji, guess which federal LE Agency gets in the most shootings? Last I heard it was the Border Patrol.

Besides, most client lists have about jack shit to do with how good a weapon is. For all we know most of those agencies bought a few, tried them, and shitcanned them.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 2:31:56 PM EDT
And remember, the government is a client to the LOWEST bidder. I have a Bushy and I like it, I have shot a friends DPMS and I like it a little less (b/c its not mine) but i've had some bad product quality control from DPMS bolt carrier groups. Crazy burrs, gouges and deep valleys were cut into the bolt everywhere. The friction was so bad that even though the carrier was TiN coated and TiN is very slippery, I switched it out for a Young Manufacturing chrome bolt carrier assembly because the quality was millions of times better.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 2:58:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Chakarji, guess which federal LE Agency gets in the most shootings? Last I heard it was the Border Patrol.

Besides, most client lists have about jack shit to do with how good a weapon is. For all we know most of those agencies bought a few, tried them, and shitcanned them.




You Sir are absolutly correct 100 %,,, it does mean jack shit,,,,,, who uses what,

but I must say it does put holes in DUUUUUUs i mean Hyltons argument of bushmaster being the DARTH VADER of ar-15s
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 3:18:40 PM EDT
welcome
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