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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 6/14/2003 2:27:21 PM EDT
Does anyone know how to determine if an AR-15 lower is truly a preban? I came accross an older PWA Commando that I suspect is a preban, but I am not sure. It has all of the pre-ban features, but I wanted to be sure that this was not just an illeagal post-ban weapon. Is there anywhere I can go to find out? Thanks!
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 2:31:12 PM EDT
Serial numbers is the only way to be sure.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 2:34:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2003 2:37:55 PM EDT by Winston_Wolf]
... If you're patient enough to hang on a year, your concerns will all be moot. ... Anyway, I believe all PWA's are preban; can anyone refute otherwise?
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 3:49:09 PM EDT
Check this out! [url]http://www.ar15.com/content/legal/serialNumberList.html[/url] PWA POST bans have a year prefix.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 4:26:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gunslinger808: Check this out! [url]http://www.ar15.com/content/legal/serialNumberList.html[/url] PWA POST bans have a year prefix.
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... Dammit man! I was trying to snare a bust! ... Just kidding, but FWIW they say they were lowers only. Of course, we all know that don't mean anythin.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 6:05:04 PM EDT
Am I correct to understand, however, that just because a lower was manufactured before Sept. '93, it is not necessarily "preban?" I recall reading somewhere that a lower had to be part of a built rifle/carbine in order to truly be preban. I believe that this would be very hard to prove. If I am wrong please let me know, so I don't pass this on any further.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 6:12:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MyWar: Am I correct to understand, however, that just because a lower was manufactured before Sept. '93, it is not necessarily "preban?" I recall reading somewhere that a lower had to be part of a built rifle/carbine in order to truly be preban. I believe that this would be very hard to prove. If I am wrong please let me know, so I don't pass this on any further.
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Yes, and yes.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 11:39:04 PM EDT
I'd have to respectfully disagree with a few of these replies. Serial numbers do not prove that it is a pre-ban but may prove that it is a post ban. Not all PWA are pre-ban and not all post ban PWA's have a prefix. For more info please check [url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=168814] here[/url].
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 11:57:33 PM EDT
There's a nice database floating around for Palm Pilots that has listings of all preban serial number ranges for all manufacturers except Oly who had a fire in their factory and the records all went up with it.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 6:34:21 AM EDT
Thanks for the site. It looks like I now own a pre-ban. The cool thing is, I picked this up for $400. This guy needed $$ and apparently did not know much about ARs. I already have a nicely customized Bushmaster, so I'll be re-selling this one:D
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 10:16:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BH1: I'd have to respectfully disagree with a few of these replies. Serial numbers do not prove that it is a pre-ban but may prove that it is a post ban.
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In the case of a assembled lower, agreed.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 11:47:10 AM EDT
For unassembled lowers also as it would have had to have been completely assembled by 9/13/94 to be exempt.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 12:06:53 PM EDT
And how would anyone know of you put that rifle together last night or 10 years ago?
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 12:24:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rip_Roarin_Wacko: And how would anyone know of you put that rifle together last night or 10 years ago?
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If I read it correctly, it's up to YOU to prove it. Not the A.T.F. to disprove.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 2:15:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2003 2:19:48 PM EDT by SULACO2]
This "fully assembled" notion is a little confusing and probably not worth the effort. A lower receiver, that is recoreded as a replacement/repair part or shipped as a "stripped lower" in 1986, is going to be regarded as, not "fully assembled" prior to 9/13/94, w/o proof, by the ATF? If a person purchased an AR w/ a collapsible stock serial #, that is recorded at the manufacturer's records office as a "car" config. and that person changed the config. to 20", fixed, they just "manufactured" a new rifle? -OR- If a person took a Pre- 20" and changed uppers to 16" w/ a bayo. mt. and FS, they just "manufactured" a new rifle? How would they allow the stripping of a lower receiver, and "re-manufacturing" w/o allowing a lower, regarded as the firearm, by the same bureau, to be assembled? How do they differentiate between reconfiguring ie. dis-assembling, and reassembling and initially assembling?
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 2:58:51 PM EDT
You can tell just by looking at the Price !!!!
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 5:57:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2003 5:58:11 PM EDT by Stryfe]
Originally Posted By SULACO2: This "fully assembled" notion is a little confusing and probably not worth the effort. A lower receiver, that is recoreded as a replacement/repair part or shipped as a "stripped lower" in 1986, is going to be regarded as, not "fully assembled" prior to 9/13/94, w/o proof, by the ATF? If a person purchased an AR w/ a collapsible stock serial #, that is recorded at the manufacturer's records office as a "car" config. and that person changed the config. to 20", fixed, they just "manufactured" a new rifle? -OR- If a person took a Pre- 20" and changed uppers to 16" w/ a bayo. mt. and FS, they just "manufactured" a new rifle? How would they allow the stripping of a lower receiver, and "re-manufacturing" w/o allowing a lower, regarded as the firearm, by the same bureau, to be assembled? How do they differentiate between reconfiguring ie. dis-assembling, and reassembling and initially assembling?
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You shot the old barrel out and purchased a replacement for it. The key is to keep it in a pre-ban condition. Don't take a pre-ban bushy and eliminate the pre-ban features. If you do, you lose the pre-ban status. Example, if you have a pre-ban bushy 20" and a post ban 20" and you swap uppers, the pre-ban becomes a post-ban, and you're breaking a federal law with stiff penalties. This law is so much nonsense. 16 months and counting.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 7:25:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Stryfe: Example, if you have a pre-ban bushy 20" and a post ban 20" and you swap uppers, the pre-ban becomes a post-ban, and you're breaking a federal law with stiff penalties.
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I disagree with this part. If you make that swap the problem you have is not with the post upper on the pre lower, it's with the pre-ban features on the post ban lower. That is the violation. You can put the post upper on the pre-ban lower and it's still a pre-ban lower provided you still are in possession of the parts to return it to semiautomatic assault rifle configuration. Some interpretations say that you can't transfer it to another owner in that condition and have the lower retain it's exemption.
Originally Posted By Stryfe: This law is so much nonsense. 16 months and counting.
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Couldn't agree with you more on this part.
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