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Posted: 12/28/2006 11:03:32 PM EST
Is there a way to verify that the upper I bought is actually a Bushmaster upper receiver?
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 11:23:40 PM EST
can you be a little more specific on your upper? what kind of bbl or style of upper? markings?

most bushy bbls are marked: "B MP" followed by the chambering and twist rate (1-7, 1-9, etc)

this is an example: " B MP 5.56 NATO 1/9"

the upper reciever should have a forge mark (cerro, keyhole, etc), usually on the rear right

Link Posted: 12/28/2006 11:26:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/28/2006 11:31:57 PM EST by Hawk97303]
I bought a stripped upper and barrel from a local dealer, so I'm wondering if the stripped upper is a Bushmaster. The paint isn't exactly the same as the lower receiver, and a couple of spots on the castings don't exactly line up.

The barrel is stamped "SS 5.56" is all.

The upper has a little mark on it that looks like an "A" with the upper part of the "A" separated from the lower part.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 12:52:27 AM EST
My buddy's Bushy A3 came with the sliced "A" marked flattop from the factory, and I have seen keyhole forge marks on them too.

That "SS" marked barrel doesn't sound like Bushmaster, though. Maybe others with stainless Bushy barrels can verify.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 1:22:29 AM EST
Barrel marking sound similar to the ones on an Olympic Arms barrel. The forge mark gives no clue as to who the upper receiver came from.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 4:21:48 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 4:39:46 AM EST
Bushmaster just resells the same uppers that everyone else does. As far as the barrel, that is definitely not a Bushmaster. Sounds like you got hosed.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 4:54:25 AM EST
Easy: Is it purple?

J/K
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 4:57:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/29/2006 5:04:58 AM EST by engineer2001]
That splintered A is an Anchor Harvey (little A over little H makes the big A) forge mark. About everyone uses Anchor Harvey forgings, including Olympic Arms, Bushmaster, DPMS, and more (pretty much everyone). The barrel is a better way to tell who made the upper, assuming it came assembled from the factory. Bushmaster uses Cardinal forges, Cerro, Anchor Harvey, Kaiser, and more, and they even use unmarked upper receivers:
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=298543&page=1

Based on the posts above in answer to your question, I'd say you have an Olympic Arms stainless steel barreled upper. Seems every gun show moron/con-man wants to sell their stuff as Bushmaster these days, whether it is or not. We get one of these posts a month at least. Check Bushmaster's industry forum - there was one a week or so ago.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 5:20:35 AM EST
All the Bushie barrels I have seen will have Bushmaster and 5.56 somewere on them. As far as uppers. If its striped. Hard to tell except bye forge codes. And Bushie uses what ever they can get. All most all there stuff is made bye out side vendors. Then they assemble it them selfs. Thats why I stay away from gun shows. Other than to look or bye ammo. To maney people scaming you. Stick to the EE or vendors here. In the long run cheaper and better quality.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 7:18:41 AM EST
so is it normal to have a 556 only stamped on the barrel?

where else can i find identification marks?
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 7:58:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By DRIFTING407:
so is it normal to have a 556 only stamped on the barrel?

where else can i find identification marks?


The "556" stamped on top just past the front sight is how Olympic marks their barrels. They are non-chrome lined (chrome moly), and AFAIK their chrome-molys are all marked like that.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 8:41:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/29/2006 8:43:08 AM EST by mvician]

Originally Posted By Hawk97303:
I bought a stripped upper and barrel from a local dealer, so I'm wondering if the stripped upper is a Bushmaster. The paint isn't exactly the same as the lower receiver, and a couple of spots on the castings don't exactly line up.

The barrel is stamped "SS 5.56" is all.

The upper has a little mark on it that looks like an "A" with the upper part of the "A" separated from the lower part.


Questions...... was the upper and barrel sold to you as a Bushmaster ? or are you just wondering if that is what it could be ?
From reading you title of this thread and reading the above you are saying 2 different things.


Mike
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 8:51:49 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By mvician:
height=8
Originally Posted By Hawk97303:
I bought a stripped upper and barrel from a local dealer, so I'm wondering if the stripped upper is a Bushmaster. The paint isn't exactly the same as the lower receiver, and a couple of spots on the castings don't exactly line up.

The barrel is stamped "SS 5.56" is all.

The upper has a little mark on it that looks like an "A" with the upper part of the "A" separated from the lower part.


Questions...... was the upper and barrel sold to you as a Bushmaster ? or are you just wondering if that is what it could be ?
From reading you title of this thread and reading the above you are saying 2 different things.

ht
I also read where Bush uses 4150 steel in their barrels, whereas others use 4140 which is supposedly a lower grade of steel.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 9:28:16 AM EST
OK, now that explains it alot better....what you have is not Bushmaster, at least the barrel isn't. Go back to the place you got it and have them make it right since you told them you wanted Bushmaster parts.

Mike
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 12:03:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/29/2006 12:21:14 PM EST by engineer2001]
Plus, the stainless is NOT 4150 Chrome Moly like Bushmaster uses for their "normal" (non target) rifles. It should be marked "B MP 5.56 NATO" on the barrel if it's Bushmaster.

www.bushmaster.com/faqnew/content_by_cat.asp?contentid=180&catid=100


Like mvician said, I'd take it back and make them cough up the Bushmaster parts. You can always just get your money back and buy the upper yourself from Bushmaster online - no FFL/middle man needed.

www.bushmaster.com/shopping/uppers/pre-ban/Default.asp
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 12:46:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hawk97303:
I bought a stripped upper and barrel from a local dealer, so I'm wondering if the stripped upper is a Bushmaster. The paint isn't exactly the same as the lower receiver, and a couple of spots on the castings don't exactly line up.

The barrel is stamped "SS 5.56" is all.

The upper has a little mark on it that looks like an "A" with the upper part of the "A" separated from the lower part.


the only manf i can think of that marks thier SS bbls like that is Oly Arms

Oly Arms bbl FAQ

also, factory bushy bbl assemblies, and several others, have tapered pins (one side has a larger diameter than the other) that hold the FSB in....
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 1:00:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST: the only manf i can think of that marks thier SS bbls like that is Oly Arms

Oly Arms bbl FAQ

also, factory bushy bbl assemblies, and several others, have tapered pins (one side has a larger diameter than the other) that hold the FSB in....


AG, thanks for the link. That pretty well confirms that he's got an Oly barrel. The question is whether the Oly 416 stainless steel barrel (which is parkerized) is better than the chrome lined Bushmaster 4150 mil spec ordnance steel barrel?

What do you guys recommend?
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 1:08:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hawk97303:

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST: the only manf i can think of that marks thier SS bbls like that is Oly Arms

Oly Arms bbl FAQ

also, factory bushy bbl assemblies, and several others, have tapered pins (one side has a larger diameter than the other) that hold the FSB in....


AG, thanks for the link. That pretty well confirms that he's got an Oly barrel. The question is whether the Oly 416 stainless steel barrel (which is parkerized) is better than the chrome lined Bushmaster 4150 mil spec ordnance steel barrel?

What do you guys recommend?


no problem mr hawk

Here is a chart comparing most of the common AR brands--bbls and matieral listed

your 2nd part of the question is: "better" for what use?

the C-L bbl should last you longer, rnd wise and be a little more corrosion resistant; h/w, the 416 SS will more than likely provide greater potential for accuracy, esp over almost any C-L bbl

in general: SS is for accuracy and greater corrosion resistance vs. CMoly, C-L for longevity and durability, while sacrificing some accuracy, even in comparison to regular chrome-moly bbls

it would all depend on the use; FWIW: i use quality SS for accuracy work, C-L for everything else

PS: bushy uses 4150 mil-spec steel, most other AR guys use 4140 CM/L steel...little difference in the 2 for most of us, but it could be argued otherwise
Bushmaster bbl FAQ
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 1:27:27 PM EST
We're not into marksmanship or anything like that. We just like to throw lead down-range at cans and stuff, although we will use the AR's for hunting coyotes, and maybe some varmints. That, and he just wants to look cool with a REAL AR and not just the AirSoft gun he has.

If figure pretty much any gun is going to be more accurate than I can probably shoot, so I'm probably better going with chrome lined barrels over stainless steel, do you think?
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 1:31:27 PM EST
ok, so my newbie self now wants to ask this question and i dont want to hi jack a thread, but here it is:

so everyone is bashing Oly , now for the occasional (go to range every month and fires a little bit) shooter........ will a oly barrel warp or blow up or something? i mean i thought all the manufactures use the same tools to cut the same steel , (well they look the same so there... no flame!)

if a oly will blow up or F**k something up in my piece, its going out the door, but i want to hear some real life stories, [no make believe either!]
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 1:39:14 PM EST
I'm a newbie to AR's as well. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with an Oly, it sounds like a lot of guys shoot them and love 'em. As I understand it, all AR's are pretty much the same except for the logo (not counting the really fancy ones; just the regular AR's).

My concern was that the Bushmaster barrels are a little more expensive than standard parkerized Oly barrels (about $190 compared to $152). I just wanted to be sure I got what I paid for. The Oly catalog (PDF) says the Oly SS (assumably parkerized) barrel is $194, so cost-wise it's probably a wash.

I think they all go BANG and kill pretty much whatever you're pointing at...
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 1:59:32 PM EST
exactly hawk, i told someone and they said "you get what you pay for"

im like first off i want the knowledge, cus i want to learn mossberg 500 shotguns, (i got beretta, glock and 1911 down packed)

second im only firing once a month, and it needs to be stored in a safe so it really cant be home defense (my female friends would disappear if they found out i like guns)

third, they all use steel and the same machines to cut the same metal

so do i care what people say about oly and bushmaster? not much, once it wont blow up in my face, and even to that........ all pistols i fool around with and tinker with i give to a professional to handle and double check (the boys at my fav range and i got to leave names out )
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 3:05:49 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 3:20:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/29/2006 3:21:19 PM EST by DRIFTING407]

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By Hawk97303:
I'm a newbie to AR's as well. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with an Oly, it sounds like a lot of guys shoot them and love 'em. As I understand it, all AR's are pretty much the same except for the logo (not counting the really fancy ones; just the regular AR's).

My concern was that the Bushmaster barrels are a little more expensive than standard parkerized Oly barrels (about $190 compared to $152). I just wanted to be sure I got what I paid for. The Oly catalog (PDF) says the Oly SS (assumably parkerized) barrel is $194, so cost-wise it's probably a wash.

I think they all go BANG and kill pretty much whatever you're pointing at...


The biggest problems are:

1. You didnt get what you asked for.

2. That OLY barrel, even though marked 5.56, very well could have a SAAMI .223 chamber. This means you cant shoot milsup 5.56 pressure ammo, which is cheap and plentiful. If all you want is something to throw lead downrange - then I would prefer a chrome lined chamber, of the NATO 5.56 spec.... like Bushmaster sells.




i am said because of falarak

DRIFTING407 now goes under a rock....
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 4:09:10 PM EST
You know, a couple of times in this thread a stainless steel Oly barrel has been referred to as "Parkerized". Now I don't know what finish, if any, Oly puts on their SS barrels, but it sure as hell isn't Parkerizing. Stainlees steel won't take a phosphate finish. Oly may paint them, or plate them, but they surely don't (can't) Parkerize them. All they would get out of a phosphate bath w/stainless would be a slightly duller version of what went in.

Just trying to get the terminolagy striaght.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 4:36:26 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 7:23:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/29/2006 7:24:11 PM EST by engineer2001]

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
the C-L bbl should last you longer, rnd wise and be a little more corrosion resistant; h/w, the 416 SS will more than likely provide greater potential for accuracy, esp over almost any C-L bbl

in general: SS is for accuracy and greater corrosion resistance vs. CMoly, C-L for longevity and durability, while sacrificing some accuracy, even in comparison to regular chrome-moly bbls


That being said, I HAVE seen SS barrels that have rusted on the surface, and I have NEVER seen a chrome-moly barrel with rust (other than really old Colts from Vietnam and such - are they even chrome-moly like we have now? - and even they really just seem to turn brownish with time and use). Plus, my chrome-lined DPMS 20" upper will shoot dime-sized 3-shot groups at 50 yards and 1.5" 10-shot groups at 100 yards with me lying prone and using a cheap 3-12x scope and using a bipod attached to my non-free-float handguards. I don't think chrome-lining hurts accuracy very much.

I'd get the Bushmaster - especially if the same price as the Olympic. I have an Oly Plinker Plus upper, and I love it, but Oly stuff is usually much cheaper than Bushmaster. If for nothing other than resale value, I would go Bushmaster.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 8:54:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/29/2006 9:26:27 PM EST by ALPHAGHOST]

Originally Posted By engineer2001:

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
the C-L bbl should last you longer, rnd wise and be a little more corrosion resistant; h/w, the 416 SS will more than likely provide greater potential for accuracy, esp over almost any C-L bbl

in general: SS is for accuracy and greater corrosion resistance vs. CMoly, C-L for longevity and durability, while sacrificing some accuracy, even in comparison to regular chrome-moly bbls


That being said, I HAVE seen SS barrels that have rusted on the surface, and I have NEVER seen a chrome-moly barrel with rust (other than really old Colts from Vietnam and such - are they even chrome-moly like we have now? - and even they really just seem to turn brownish with time and use). Plus, my chrome-lined DPMS 20" upper will shoot dime-sized 3-shot groups at 50 yards and 1.5" 10-shot groups at 100 yards with me lying prone and using a cheap 3-12x scope and using a bipod attached to my non-free-float handguards. I don't think chrome-lining hurts accuracy very much.

I'd get the Bushmaster - especially if the same price as the Olympic. I have an Oly Plinker Plus upper, and I love it, but Oly stuff is usually much cheaper than Bushmaster. If for nothing other than resale value, I would go Bushmaster.


not disagreeing w/ that, just stating what i believe...but let me ask you mr engineer2001: those SS bbls that rusted on the surface, were they coated w/ some kinda of protective finish (park, blk oxide, kote, etc)? now, how about those Chrome molly bbls?
1st, i'll bet that the CM bbl had some kind of coating, such as parkerization or black oxide or gun kote or something, so yea, its going to have an edge on resisting corrosion/etc as long as its got that coating

i have seen SS bbls get rusting on the outside too (non-coated), but i have also seen greater pitting and rusting inside regular steel/CM steel bbls too, while its bluing helps prevent some of the corrosion on the outside

now, how about INSIDE the bbl now--which is what i'm more concerned about since thats the area which affects accuracy and dynamics of the shot?
a non-coated SS bbl's internals (global-tactical is one who offers chrome-lined, SS bbls) will offer more resist corrosion than a CM bbl (which to my knowledge is NOT lined w/ anything on the inside), moreover, SS easier to clean

**note: rapid firing, etc can lead to increased throat and bbl wear on SS, which is why CL is better for abuse imo**

a good quality SS (such as 416) is inheritly more corrosion/oxidation resistant over 4140/4150 CM steel; moreover, over a proper break in, a SS bbl will provide greater accuracy potential, easier to clean, and less fouling due to its 'polishing' (i guess it would be called) during the break in

h/w, accuracy of course correspondes to the quality of the blank, the specs of the contouring, lapping, etc

if you compare 2 coated bbls, CM and SS, they will be protected as thier coatings allow; if you compare the outside coating on a CM and a non-coated SS bbl, then obviously the coated CM will resist corrosion more
by itself, i'll say that SS is more corrosion resistant that CM in AR bbls
the chrome lining inside the chrome moly materials on a CM bbl is the coating for corrosion resistance, longevity, and durability

second, i'm NOT saying that C-L bbls cant be accurate; h/w, its process of manf of most CL bbls makes it inheriently MORE inaccurate than a straight quality made CM or SS bbl since no lining is added in another process as it is in the CL process

not to mention, most CM/CL bbls were not made for max potential accuracy in mind, but most SS and some CM were (blanks, manf process, quality, etc); moreover, most long term users and shooters will tell you that a CM or SS bbl will be more accurate than CL bbls (of similar quality), which is one reason why we see more firearm bbls of CM or SS (most promenant imo) being marketed as match grade in comparison to the few CL bbls out there being marketed as match grade or more accurate over SS/CM

so all i can say is, get a QUALITY made bbl for your use, and it should do you fine

ETA: +1 for Bushmaster though, i'd take em over oly stuff in a heartbeat; h/w, i have had a couple of oly bbls, and they seemed to be quality built

just my .02cents

YMMV


Link Posted: 12/30/2006 5:07:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
not disagreeing w/ that, just stating what i believe...but let me ask you mr engineer2001: those SS bbls that rusted on the surface, were they coated w/ some kinda of protective finish (park, blk oxide, kote, etc)? now, how about those Chrome molly bbls?
1st, i'll bet that the CM bbl had some kind of coating, such as parkerization or black oxide or gun kote or something, so yea, its going to have an edge on resisting corrosion/etc as long as its got that coating


You are correct - the SS were not coated (shiny silver) on the exterior, and I have never seen a chrome moly barrel that had no protective exterior finish. As for the bore, that is totally up to the habits of the user. I keep mine relatively clean and don't use corrosive ammo, and I have never seen a bit of corrosion in my chrome moly barrels.

We're saying the same thing, I believe. I just wanted to point out that I have seen a few rusty SS barrels (that were no doubt neglected or misued). Most of the SS barrels I have seen are uncoated. SS probably does have the edge for a precision build, assuming the SS barrel is well-made. For the OP's needs (shooting at the range and having a durable rifle), the Bushmaster w/chrome lining in the barrel and chamber is the winner, IMO.
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 10:11:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By engineer2001:

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
not disagreeing w/ that, just stating what i believe...but let me ask you mr engineer2001: those SS bbls that rusted on the surface, were they coated w/ some kinda of protective finish (park, blk oxide, kote, etc)? now, how about those Chrome molly bbls?
1st, i'll bet that the CM bbl had some kind of coating, such as parkerization or black oxide or gun kote or something, so yea, its going to have an edge on resisting corrosion/etc as long as its got that coating


You are correct - the SS were not coated (shiny silver) on the exterior, and I have never seen a chrome moly barrel that had no protective exterior finish. As for the bore, that is totally up to the habits of the user. I keep mine relatively clean and don't use corrosive ammo, and I have never seen a bit of corrosion in my chrome moly barrels.

We're saying the same thing, I believe. I just wanted to point out that I have seen a few rusty SS barrels (that were no doubt neglected or misued). Most of the SS barrels I have seen are uncoated. SS probably does have the edge for a precision build, assuming the SS barrel is well-made. For the OP's needs (shooting at the range and having a durable rifle), the Bushmaster w/chrome lining in the barrel and chamber is the winner, IMO.


mr engineer2001: i re-read your post and my previous post, and i guess we are both right--just 2 different areas, my fault, since i should have stated exactly where i believed that corrosion resistance was suppose to be more prevailent

my appologies again...

mr Hawk: since you dont think that your upper is from bushy, do you plan on complaining to the seller?
Link Posted: 1/1/2007 9:09:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By shamayim:
You know, a couple of times in this thread a stainless steel Oly barrel has been referred to as "Parkerized". Now I don't know what finish, if any, Oly puts on their SS barrels, but it sure as hell isn't Parkerizing. Stainlees steel won't take a phosphate finish. Oly may paint them, or plate them, but they surely don't (can't) Parkerize them. All they would get out of a phosphate bath w/stainless would be a slightly duller version of what went in.

Just trying to get the terminolagy striaght.


To me, it looks like the same finish as on the upper and lower, so I'm assuming it is parkerized.
Link Posted: 1/4/2007 1:32:45 AM EST
EASY: Sloppy upper to lower fit and crappy purplish looking tint in the black color.
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