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Posted: 4/18/2010 5:36:25 AM EDT
Well...How do I do it?
Link Posted: 4/18/2010 5:43:01 AM EDT
[#1]
Apply SPORTS:

SLAP the base of the magazine to ensure it's properly seated and the follower isn't jammed
PULL the charging handle fully to the rear
OBSERVE for the ejection of a round (and check that there's nothing foreign in the action)
RELEASE the charging handle (DO NOT ride it forward)
TAP the forward assist to ensure the bolt is fully closed
SQUEEZE the trigger to attempt to fire the rifle.

Straight out of FM22-9...
Link Posted: 4/18/2010 5:47:18 AM EDT
[#2]
Assuming a non-combat jam; drop the magazine and operate the charging handle. The round should fall out of the mag well. Now you need to find out how/why it happened. It's usually magazine-related.
Link Posted: 4/18/2010 8:51:23 AM EDT
[#3]
If SPORTS doesn't work, it is indicative of a bolt override or worse.

Two cases (no pun intended):  failure to extract (spent case becomes wedged in receiver), failure to extract with a spent case and a new round wedged in the receiver.

It is amazing how "stuck" the BCG can become considering that relatively wimpy buffer spring is all that drove it into this condition.

1.  Drop mag.
2.  Attempt to get charging handle to the rear...this may take considerable effort up to and including collapsing the stock and striking the butt on the ground while pulling on the charging handle to free it.  This may also tear rim off of the case on the boltface if it's really jammed.
3.  Now it takes some combination of fingers and/or tools in the ejection port and/or magwell to fish the stuck cases out.

There are a couple of other permutations of this type of malfunction but you get the idea.

HTH.



Link Posted: 4/18/2010 8:56:08 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
If SPORTS doesn't work, it is indicative of a bolt override or worse.

Two cases (no pun intended):  failure to extract (spent case becomes wedged in receiver), failure to extract with a spent case and a new round wedged in the receiver.

It is amazing how "stuck" the BCG can become considering that relatively wimpy buffer spring is all that drove it into this condition.

1.  Drop mag.
2.  Attempt to get charging handle to the rear...this may take considerable effort up to and including collapsing the stock and striking the butt on the ground while pulling on the charging handle to free it.  This may also tear rim off of the case on the boltface if it's really jammed.
3.  Now it takes some combination of fingers and/or tools in the ejection port and/or magwell to fish the stuck cases out.

There are a couple of other permutations of this type of malfunction but you get the idea.

HTH.



and use harsh words.

Link Posted: 4/18/2010 8:56:51 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Well...How do I do it?


Fourth article down on the page.
http://www.mdtstraining.com/articles.htm
Link Posted: 4/18/2010 9:08:17 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
If SPORTS doesn't work, it is indicative of a bolt override or worse.

Two cases (no pun intended):  failure to extract (spent case becomes wedged in receiver), failure to extract with a spent case and a new round wedged in the receiver.

It is amazing how "stuck" the BCG can become considering that relatively wimpy buffer spring is all that drove it into this condition.

1.  Drop mag.
2.  Attempt to get charging handle to the rear...this may take considerable effort up to and including collapsing the stock and striking the butt on the ground while pulling on the charging handle to free it.  This may also tear rim off of the case on the boltface if it's really jammed.
3.  Now it takes some combination of fingers and/or tools in the ejection port and/or magwell to fish the stuck cases out.

There are a couple of other permutations of this type of malfunction but you get the idea.

HTH.



and use harsh words.



Oh, yea, forgot that part...I did have this happen on a "active 2-way range"...and there were lots of bad words used...I did NOT get it cleared at the scene...it turned into a back on the COP project.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 7:47:24 AM EDT
[#7]
I keep seeing this pop up over and over again.

The quickest way I have found to correct a bolt override is to:

1. Drop the mag.

2. use the charging handle to bring the bolt to the rear.

3. while you're pulling, have a finger or two in the magazine well, hold the bolt to the rear.  It might not have been a very big movement, but it might be enough.

4. The charging handle has been pulled back a little now, keep the bolt held to the rear with a finger through the magwell, screwdriver/ bullet tip though the ejection port.

5. Push the charging handle forward again, this should scrape the round out of the charging handle channel/ groove.

From here you can load a new magazine.  Don't load your last one, it was probably the cause of your malfunction.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 9:38:16 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Apply SPORTS:

SLAP the base of the magazine to ensure it's properly seated and the follower isn't jammed.  Tracking, good advice so far.
PULL the charging handle fully to the rear  100% behind that.
OBSERVE for the ejection of a round (and check that there's nothing foreign in the action)  You can't do this at night.
RELEASE the charging handle (DO NOT ride it forward)  Yep, it's gotta be closed in order to fire.
TAP the forward assist to ensure the bolt is fully closed Not if I'm in a hurry.
SQUEEZE the trigger to attempt to fire the rifle.  You need to reacquire your target first instead of racing straight to shooting.

Straight out of FM22-9...


I've seen dozens and dozens of instances where a trainee using SPORTS will rush through all the steps only to fire at... nothing.  
FM 22-9 would be better off teaching the four rules and how to put your target back in your sights before sprinting to the trigger, just to see if the weapon works.

It would add to teaching the individual shooter some accountability in where every single one of his rounds goes.  


Instead of SPORTS for remedial action:

Just make sure the magazine is seated all the way
Rip back on the charging handle to clear your jam, tilting the gun to the side helps too.
Go back to shooting

If that doesn't clear your problem, you need remedial action.  

Don't waste your life with time spent on a forward assist.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 10:04:45 AM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 10:31:07 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
If SPORTS doesn't work, it is indicative of a bolt override or worse.

Two cases (no pun intended):  failure to extract (spent case becomes wedged in receiver), failure to extract with a spent case and a new round wedged in the receiver.

It is amazing how "stuck" the BCG can become considering that relatively wimpy buffer spring is all that drove it into this condition.

1.  Drop mag.
2.  Attempt to get charging handle to the rear...this may take considerable effort up to and including collapsing the stock and striking the butt on the ground while pulling on the charging handle to free it.  This may also tear rim off of the case on the boltface if it's really jammed.
3.  Now it takes some combination of fingers and/or tools in the ejection port and/or magwell to fish the stuck cases out.

There are a couple of other permutations of this type of malfunction but you get the idea.

HTH.







I had this exact scenario happen last summer. Solution was to unscrew the A2 stock and unscrew/remove the buffer tube...then the bolt moved easily to the rear and the spent case and new round dropped right out. It has never happened since and was strictly operator error.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 10:40:02 AM EDT
[#11]
If the OP is talking about a spent case or live round lodged above the BCG in the upper receiver, I had it happen with an M4 recently.  We could not get the bolt forward (for obvious reasons) to take the upper off the lower, and the auto-sear was in the way if you tried to pull both pins and move the upper off (bolt carrier was partially in the buffer tube, so you can't pull it upward).  

Without an auto-sear, you should at least be able to pull the upper off the lower.  What I ended up doing was pulling the bolt to the rear, and using the bolt stop to preven the bolt from going forward while someone else tapped on the charging handle to drive it forward.  Once it moved enough, the round (lodged between the carrier key and charging handle) dropped out.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 11:41:04 AM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 12:22:38 PM EDT
[#14]
No kidding, it takes about three-to-five seconds to clear one of these, not days or disassembly.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 12:33:29 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
If SPORTS doesn't work, it is indicative of a bolt override or worse.

Two cases (no pun intended):  failure to extract (spent case becomes wedged in receiver), failure to extract with a spent case and a new round wedged in the receiver.

It is amazing how "stuck" the BCG can become considering that relatively wimpy buffer spring is all that drove it into this condition.

1.  Drop mag.
2.  Attempt to get charging handle to the rear...this may take considerable effort up to and including collapsing the stock and striking the butt on the ground while pulling on the charging handle to free it.  This may also tear rim off of the case on the boltface if it's really jammed.
3.  Now it takes some combination of fingers and/or tools in the ejection port and/or magwell to fish the stuck cases out.

There are a couple of other permutations of this type of malfunction but you get the idea.

HTH.





Charge your bolt and put your finger in the ejection port and hit the bolt release. Then get back to us on the wimpy the buffer spring is after you get back from having it x'rayed.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 12:36:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
No kidding, it takes about three-to-five seconds to clear one of these, not days or disassembly.


It depends on how many times someone performed immediate action and jammed the round in there further.

Link Posted: 5/6/2010 1:20:24 PM EDT
[#17]


This is what the video shows about a bolt override:

Tap / Rack / Attempt to Fire (weapon doesn't fire)

Remove the magazine

Attempt to lock the bolt to the rear (with a bolt override, the bolt will most certainly NOT lock to the rear).

The video does a poor job at showing what the mechanics of the correction are.  The demonstrator basically is able to clear the gun by simply tipping it back and forth while charging the gun.  It just wasn't a very realistic simulation of that malfunction.

The next thing you should think about would be something along the lines of:
"I have to remove a casing or round from the charging handle channel, this is probably gonna suck if I don't hold onto the charging handle"

You're basically only going to be able to pull the bolt to the rear a few millimeters at first.  You can hold the bolt in place with your fingers or an object through either the ejection port or the magazine well.

While you hold the bolt in place, slam the charging handle forward until it locks again.  

The stuck round or casing should move a little, so do that all over again.

Hold the bolt, while you pull on the charging handle.  Keep holding the bolt and slam the charging handle forward again.

That stuck round should fall free in two or three tries like this.  If not, you need to go visit my good friend Jim (pronounced Gym).

Once the bolt is all the way to the rear, lock it there and make sure there's no more ass-pain in the receiver.  If it's dark, you should be able to feel for anything that shouldn't be there.

Oh yeah, keep a good hold on that charging handle.  

Worst case: If there's a live round in the chamber and you're clearing an overridden round, the overridden round has the potential to become a firing pin for the chambered round.

I know what you're thinking, "I better use some sort of tool to distance myself from that area".
It won't help that much, maybe an inch... and you lose all sorts of dexterity and control over what you're doing.  


Oh yeah, the video.

Cycle the bolt twice to make sure there's no more ass-pain in the gun.

Load a full magazine that doesn't have fucked feedlips.

Drive on.


P.S. - I Think SGM Lamb's base of knowledge is amazing and I have nothing but the deepest respect for him, but he needs to explain a bit more for it to work properly as a tool.  I say make a DVD and sell it.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 1:39:58 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
No kidding, it takes about three-to-five seconds to clear one of these, not days or disassembly.


It depends on how many times someone performed immediate action and jammed the round in there further.



No it doesn't.

The point I'm trying to make here is that you simply can't pull the charging handle back anymore.  You certainly can't make the bolt go forward any more to make the problem worse.  

Something has blocked it.  It might be an empty casing, but it's more likely to be a live round.  There's no charging anything with a bolt override, your bolt's stuck.

That's the good news, you can't jam another round between the charging handle and the bolt or carrier for another impingement or override.


Immediate action in pretty much anybody's book has something along the lines of "slap the bottom of the magazine and pull the charging handle".  It's probably one of the first things you're going to do to correct the problem.

The bad news (if you're ignorant) is that while you're repeatedly slapping on the bottom of your magazine, the spread-out feedlips that probably made this malfunction to begin with are allowing your magazine spring and follower to throw more rounds into your receiver.

That's easily correctable though.  As soon as you drop your magazine, most of those rounds are going to fall out anyway.

The second you cannot charge your weapon, you need to get it into your head that you need to remove at least one problem from the front of your bolt or carrier.

That gaggle of rounds that fell out of the gun is also another great symptom of what the problem is.  You probably have what I like to call a porno mag, the lips are too spread out to be any good.


So, again... when you correct the problem, reload the gun with a different magazine.

Link Posted: 5/6/2010 1:47:48 PM EDT
[#19]
Someone showed me a new technique:

(This is my best recollection - he demonstrated using this to clear a bolt override)

Pull CH back
Drop the magazine
Use the corner of the magazine against the bolt to pull it back
Push forward/pull back on the CH to dislodge the round
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 1:49:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No kidding, it takes about three-to-five seconds to clear one of these, not days or disassembly.


It depends on how many times someone performed immediate action and jammed the round in there further.



No it doesn't.

The point I'm trying to make here is that you simply can't pull the charging handle back anymore.  You certainly can't make the bolt go forward any more to make the problem worse.  

Something has blocked it.  It might be an empty casing, but it's more likely to be a live round.  There's no charging anything with a bolt override, your bolt's stuck.

That's the good news, you can't jam another round between the charging handle and the bolt or carrier for another impingement or override.


Immediate action in pretty much anybody's book has something along the lines of "slap the bottom of the magazine and pull the charging handle".  It's probably one of the first things you're going to do to correct the problem.

The bad news (if you're ignorant) is that while you're repeatedly slapping on the bottom of your magazine, the spread-out feedlips that probably made this malfunction to begin with are allowing your magazine spring and follower to throw more rounds into your receiver.

That's easily correctable though.  As soon as you drop your magazine, most of those rounds are going to fall out anyway.

The second you cannot charge your weapon, you need to get it into your head that you need to remove at least one problem from the front of your bolt or carrier.

That gaggle of rounds that fell out of the gun is also another great symptom of what the problem is.  You probably have what I like to call a porno mag, the lips are too spread out to be any good.


So, again... when you correct the problem, reload the gun with a different magazine.



I walked over as the guy was pogo-sticking his weapon, magazine already removed.  The live round was stuck such that every time he got the bolt to go further to the rear, he was also pulling the charging handle with it, and making it stick more.  The round was completely mangled.  So he had gone beyond immediate action to remedial action, but I promise you it took a lot longer than 5 seconds to correct.  If someone properly recognizes what's happened, then it shouldn't be hard, as you said.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 1:52:54 PM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 5/7/2010 2:22:44 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Apply SPORTS:

SLAP the base of the magazine to ensure it's properly seated and the follower isn't jammed.  Tracking, good advice so far.
PULL the charging handle fully to the rear  100% behind that.
OBSERVE for the ejection of a round (and check that there's nothing foreign in the action)  You can't do this at night.
RELEASE the charging handle (DO NOT ride it forward)  Yep, it's gotta be closed in order to fire.
TAP the forward assist to ensure the bolt is fully closed Not if I'm in a hurry.
SQUEEZE the trigger to attempt to fire the rifle.  You need to reacquire your target first instead of racing straight to shooting.

Straight out of FM22-9...


I've seen dozens and dozens of instances where a trainee using SPORTS will rush through all the steps only to fire at... nothing.  
FM 22-9 would be better off teaching the four rules and how to put your target back in your sights before sprinting to the trigger, just to see if the weapon works.

It would add to teaching the individual shooter some accountability in where every single one of his rounds goes.  


Instead of SPORTS for remedial action:

Just make sure the magazine is seated all the way
Rip back on the charging handle to clear your jam, tilting the gun to the side helps too.
Go back to shooting

If that doesn't clear your problem, you need remedial action.  

Don't waste your life with time spent on a forward assist.


It's not "remedial" action.  It's "IMMEDIATE" action.  SPORTS assumes the shooter already understands acquiring a target, etc., but it also assumes a military setting, where expending a round to prove the weapon is working is appropriate.  "Remedial" action is what you do if immediate action doesn't clear the problem.
Link Posted: 5/7/2010 3:14:17 AM EDT
[#23]
See what you do is sign up for an MDTS training course with Chris Fry or if you don't live in the NY/PA/CT area, go to a PFC training course.  With about $125, 400-500 rounds of ammo, a little bit of berating and ego stomping, you can clear this jam yourself.


Aimless said it best. The gun should not be taken down. This is a 5 second fix. Grab a bullet, multi-tool or even use your finger, and put pressure on the bolt face enough so it begins to slide the whole bolt carrier to the rear. While doing this, watch the round, it may hang up a little but it should come free. Might take you a few tries to get it but it will be worth it.
Link Posted: 5/7/2010 3:22:06 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If SPORTS doesn't work, it is indicative of a bolt override or worse.

Two cases (no pun intended):  failure to extract (spent case becomes wedged in receiver), failure to extract with a spent case and a new round wedged in the receiver.

It is amazing how "stuck" the BCG can become considering that relatively wimpy buffer spring is all that drove it into this condition.

1.  Drop mag.
2.  Attempt to get charging handle to the rear...this may take considerable effort up to and including collapsing the stock and striking the butt on the ground while pulling on the charging handle to free it.  This may also tear rim off of the case on the boltface if it's really jammed.
3.  Now it takes some combination of fingers and/or tools in the ejection port and/or magwell to fish the stuck cases out.

There are a couple of other permutations of this type of malfunction but you get the idea.

HTH.



and use harsh words.



Oh, yea, forgot that part...I did have this happen on a "active 2-way range"...and there were lots of bad words used...I did NOT get it cleared at the scene...it turned into a back on the COP project.


Did you get new mags?  Since malfunctions of this kind are almost always mag-related, I hope you emptiued that mag, wrote "DOGSHIT" on the side of it with a sharpie and then ran over it with the heaviest vehicle you could find.
Link Posted: 5/7/2010 3:28:08 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Apply SPORTS:

SLAP the base of the magazine to ensure it's properly seated and the follower isn't jammed
PULL the charging handle fully to the rear
OBSERVE for the ejection of a round (and check that there's nothing foreign in the action)
RELEASE the charging handle (DO NOT ride it forward)
TAP the forward assist to ensure the bolt is fully closed
SQUEEZE the trigger to attempt to fire the rifle.

Straight out of FM22-9...


My bitches with SPORTS:

A push/pull is better than a slap.  No only will a push instead of a slap prevent an ammo volcano into your weapon if you have very worn feed lips, but more than one I've seen anemic slaps where the mag STIL doesn;t get seated and the mag drops to the deck after the first shot.  If you PULL, you'll know the mag is seated.

You can't "OBSERVE" in the dark.

Lastly, if you need the FA to lock the bolt, you have other issues to worry about.  Jamming the bolt home RARELY makes things better, and can make them considerably worse. Just run the charging handle and shoot.

I prefer "Push, pull, rack and roll, shoot"
Link Posted: 5/7/2010 5:26:36 AM EDT
[#26]
one poster above mentipnedd the pfc training course. during that course we learned how to clear every malfunction.

The bolt override or brass over bolt malfunction should take 9-15 seconds from the time you feel a mush on the trigger to the time you can get a round back on target
Link Posted: 5/7/2010 5:27:42 AM EDT
[#27]
Double-tap
Link Posted: 5/8/2010 12:47:29 AM EDT
[#28]
I've seen the magazine trick used to great effect.


I've also seen shooters repeatedly miss the small edge of the bolt carrier.  I've also seen the magazine not even able to reach the edge of the carrier because of optics mounts.  Some newer magazines (Pmags) have comfy rounded edges that don't do jack to help move the bolt carrier.

You could use a multi-tool, but you have to dig it out... in the mean time some asshole is trying to rearrange all the furniture in your living room.

Also, this doesn't work very well in low-light or complete darkness.  Since most shooters are right-handed, they would also have to take their firing hand off the weapon and switch off to move a magazine to the right side, where the ejection port is.

I only put up the best way I know how to clear this malfunction, I urge any person that is trying to become more proficient with their weapon to grab some dummy rounds, set up some designed malfunctions and try each of these different methods described.

You'll be surprised with how easy this [seemingly devastating] problem is to solve.
Link Posted: 5/8/2010 2:20:44 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Apply SPORTS:

SLAP the base of the magazine to ensure it's properly seated and the follower isn't jammed.  Tracking, good advice so far.
PULL the charging handle fully to the rear  100% behind that.
OBSERVE for the ejection of a round (and check that there's nothing foreign in the action)  You can't do this at night.
RELEASE the charging handle (DO NOT ride it forward)  Yep, it's gotta be closed in order to fire.
TAP the forward assist to ensure the bolt is fully closed Not if I'm in a hurry.
SQUEEZE the trigger to attempt to fire the rifle.  You need to reacquire your target first instead of racing straight to shooting.

Straight out of FM22-9...


I've seen dozens and dozens of instances where a trainee using SPORTS will rush through all the steps only to fire at... nothing.  
FM 22-9 would be better off teaching the four rules and how to put your target back in your sights before sprinting to the trigger, just to see if the weapon works.

It would add to teaching the individual shooter some accountability in where every single one of his rounds goes.  


Instead of SPORTS for remedial action:

Just make sure the magazine is seated all the way
Rip back on the charging handle to clear your jam, tilting the gun to the side helps too.
Go back to shooting

If that doesn't clear your problem, you need remedial action.  

Don't waste your life with time spent on a forward assist.


It's not "remedial" action.  It's "IMMEDIATE" action.  SPORTS assumes the shooter already understands acquiring a target, etc., but it also assumes a military setting, where expending a round to prove the weapon is working is appropriate.  "Remedial" action is what you do if immediate action doesn't clear the problem.


You're absolutely right, it's immediate action, not remedial action.  But the point was this: don't test fire your gun in a fight.  Use your ammo to kill bad guys instead.

If I test fire out there, I don't get a possibility of a hit on a target and I just tell everybody where I am.  If i rush this just to see if my gun works I am not entirely aware of my target.  That means a round left my gun and I don't know exactly where it went.  
When was the last time you saw someone look down their sights when they fired the S at the end of SPORTS?

The last S in SPORTS is a terrible idea, especially inside a house or a close urban setting.

If you have any valid examples to defend your point of view against this, I'm all ears.
Link Posted: 5/8/2010 4:07:19 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Apply SPORTS:

SLAP the base of the magazine to ensure it's properly seated and the follower isn't jammed.  Tracking, good advice so far.
PULL the charging handle fully to the rear  100% behind that.
OBSERVE for the ejection of a round (and check that there's nothing foreign in the action)  You can't do this at night.
RELEASE the charging handle (DO NOT ride it forward)  Yep, it's gotta be closed in order to fire.
TAP the forward assist to ensure the bolt is fully closed Not if I'm in a hurry.
SQUEEZE the trigger to attempt to fire the rifle.  You need to reacquire your target first instead of racing straight to shooting.

Straight out of FM22-9...


I've seen dozens and dozens of instances where a trainee using SPORTS will rush through all the steps only to fire at... nothing.  
FM 22-9 would be better off teaching the four rules and how to put your target back in your sights before sprinting to the trigger, just to see if the weapon works.

It would add to teaching the individual shooter some accountability in where every single one of his rounds goes.  


Instead of SPORTS for remedial action:

Just make sure the magazine is seated all the way
Rip back on the charging handle to clear your jam, tilting the gun to the side helps too.
Go back to shooting

If that doesn't clear your problem, you need remedial action.  

Don't waste your life with time spent on a forward assist.


It's not "remedial" action.  It's "IMMEDIATE" action.  SPORTS assumes the shooter already understands acquiring a target, etc., but it also assumes a military setting, where expending a round to prove the weapon is working is appropriate.  "Remedial" action is what you do if immediate action doesn't clear the problem.


You're absolutely right, it's immediate action, not remedial action.  But the point was this: don't test fire your gun in a fight.  Use your ammo to kill bad guys instead.

If I test fire out there, I don't get a possibility of a hit on a target and I just tell everybody where I am.  If i rush this just to see if my gun works I am not entirely aware of my target.  That means a round left my gun and I don't know exactly where it went.  
When was the last time you saw someone look down their sights when they fired the S at the end of SPORTS?

The last S in SPORTS is a terrible idea, especially inside a house or a close urban setting.

If you have any valid examples to defend your point of view against this, I'm all ears.
I spent over 23 years in the Air Force.  They grudgingly gave me firearms when required by regulations...no combat experience (despite being on the "target" end of a number of bad guys' sights for much of my tour in Panama...).  However, between me and a prior Army captain, we got my last unit squared away with preparation for a major inspection; he knew I was an "enthusiast."  Having someone within the unit who knew something about weapons really helped get everyone on board.  We did quite well on that inspection.  Ask any Air Force person about an ORI...they're not fun.

But SPORTS comes from a straight-forward Infantry mindset, wherein we don't worry about a round or two lost to clearing a stoppage-or verifying that the weapon now fires.  It's about unit action, not individual action.  CONOPS is that everyone has plenty of ammunition and if one or two members of the team are not firing because they're reloading or clearing stoppages, the rest of the team is covering and taking up the slack.

I would also mention that a "brass-over-bolt" stoppage is not common.  In a single-combat, home defense situation, this sort of stoppage is a major problem, but also very, very unlikely-such actions statistically tend to be over in two or three shots, rather than featuring multiple shot exchanges.

Link Posted: 5/8/2010 4:22:21 AM EDT
[#31]
"You probably have what I like to call a porno mag, the lips are too spread out to be any good. "



Link Posted: 5/8/2010 7:10:25 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
...

But SPORTS comes from a straight-forward Infantry mindset, wherein we don't worry about a round or two lost to clearing a stoppage-or verifying that the weapon now fires.  It's about unit action, not individual action.  CONOPS is that everyone has plenty of ammunition and if one or two members of the team are not firing because they're reloading or clearing stoppages, the rest of the team is covering and taking up the slack.

I would also mention that a "brass-over-bolt" stoppage is not common.  In a single-combat, home defense situation, this sort of stoppage is a major problem, but also very, very unlikely-such actions statistically tend to be over in two or three shots, rather than featuring multiple shot exchanges.



I got it, you were enthusiastic about facing down a dangerous inspection.  I don't know how you and your buddy got out alive.


Rule 4.  Know your target, what's beyond your target and to the left and right of your target.

If you're shooting and you don't know exactly here each round goes, you might shoot something that you shouldn't have.

That even goes for after a malfunction.  


That is why I think the S at the end of SPORTS is pretty fucking dumb.

Link Posted: 5/8/2010 8:03:10 AM EDT
[#33]




Tweeter

I keep seeing this pop up over and over again.

The quickest way I have found to correct a bolt override is to:

1. Drop the mag.

2. use the charging handle to bring the bolt to the rear.

3. while you're pulling, have a finger or two in the magazine well, hold the bolt to the rear. It might not have been a very big movement, but it might be enough.

4. The charging handle has been pulled back a little now, keep the bolt held to the rear with a finger through the magwell, screwdriver/ bullet tip though the ejection port.

5. Push the charging handle forward again, this should scrape the round out of the charging handle channel/ groove.

From here you can load a new magazine. Don't load your last one, it was probably the cause of your malfunction.    


Here is your correct answer.

This malfunction is really not that difficult to clear if you follow this technique and practice it . You can use dummy rds and set this Malf up and practice clearing it.

Link Posted: 5/8/2010 5:48:45 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
I just did these at a class last weekend. Steve In PA linked to article explaining how to clear this malfunction. You don't need to pull off the stock or disassemble the AR. You clear it as I stated above.


Yep. Your middle finger is the tool for clearing this stoppage. Its covered in any basic carbine class.
Link Posted: 5/8/2010 6:14:53 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No kidding, it takes about three-to-five seconds to clear one of these, not days or disassembly.


It depends on how many times someone performed immediate action and jammed the round in there further.



No it doesn't.

The point I'm trying to make here is that you simply can't pull the charging handle back anymore.  You certainly can't make the bolt go forward any more to make the problem worse.  

Something has blocked it.  It might be an empty casing, but it's more likely to be a live round.  There's no charging anything with a bolt override, your bolt's stuck.

That's the good news, you can't jam another round between the charging handle and the bolt or carrier for another impingement or override.


Immediate action in pretty much anybody's book has something along the lines of "slap the bottom of the magazine and pull the charging handle".  It's probably one of the first things you're going to do to correct the problem.

The bad news (if you're ignorant) is that while you're repeatedly slapping on the bottom of your magazine, the spread-out feedlips that probably made this malfunction to begin with are allowing your magazine spring and follower to throw more rounds into your receiver.

That's easily correctable though.  As soon as you drop your magazine, most of those rounds are going to fall out anyway.

The second you cannot charge your weapon, you need to get it into your head that you need to remove at least one problem from the front of your bolt or carrier.

That gaggle of rounds that fell out of the gun is also another great symptom of what the problem is.  You probably have what I like to call a porno mag, the lips are too spread out to be any good.


So, again... when you correct the problem, reload the gun with a different magazine.



I had a malf very similar to this a few days ago while testing out some used (new to me) mags.  The bolt didn't fully close and I could not pull the CH back more than a half inch from the fully closed position.  The BCG was stuck with a live round in the chamber.  As hard as I pulled on the CH, it wouldn't budge.  I corrected the problem only after removing the upper from the lower and hammering out the bcg.  The problem was a bad mag that caused the bullet to improperly seat and then deform when slammed home.  Every other mag ran smooth as silk.
Link Posted: 5/8/2010 6:49:47 PM EDT
[#36]
Link Posted: 5/9/2010 8:32:35 AM EDT
[#37]
I can't believe I made a fucking video for you assholes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzY9jLeI0BU
Link Posted: 5/9/2010 10:58:35 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
I can't believe I made a fucking video for you assholes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzY9jLeI0BU


And a very informative damn video it was.  The technique with the CH wasn't nearly clear enough in text, but your demo made it very understandable.

And no, SPORTS wouldn't have cleared this-not at all.  When I responded originally, the term "bolt override" was the only information I had, and that is not the term I'd use for "brass over bolt" stoppages.  To me, "bolt override" means "the bolt failed to pick up the top round from the magazine, which would be easily cleared by "slap, pull, observe..."  And I do agree that the mnemonic is overly simple, particularly in not emphasizing target acquisition/safety.
Link Posted: 5/9/2010 11:27:04 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Someone showed me a new technique:

(This is my best recollection - he demonstrated using this to clear a bolt override)

Pull CH back
Drop the magazine
Use the corner of the magazine against the bolt to pull it back
Push forward/pull back on the CH to dislodge the round

That's the same thing I'm talking about, the magazine is probably better than using a round, it'll get you more leverage. I had one that I could not get until I used a knife. the round was too mangled to do with my finger or a bullet
 


Soooo you were the one scratching everybody's BCG's up with the knife

I was at the same class with Aimless, the finger works most of the time, you can clear this type of malfunction in under a minute with the remedy.
Link Posted: 5/9/2010 11:35:37 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
You mean there is a round, or brass, above the bolt?

Remove magazine
use fingers/bullet/multitool to push bolt carrier to the rear. Round(s) should drop free



Just did this in a carbine class last week as part of a drill. Charging handle only makes it worse.
Works great..

Link Posted: 5/9/2010 5:23:48 PM EDT
[#41]
Tweeter

Nice video... thanks for taking the time..

This Malfunction, which in some circles is know as the Type Ate (As in Ate the fuck up) use to be a show stopper for folks. some would try mortaring there guns and this just makes it worse.  The technique that Tweeter shows is the correct workable Remedial Action to correct it. For those of you who  don't have long fingers, a multi- tool or a small fixed blade knife can be inserted into the ejection port to push back on the BCG while you push forward on the CH... Think of  it like a Chinese finger puzzle... the harder you pull.... the worse it gets.  That's why a lot of shooters have a fixed blade knife on the shroud of there pistol rig, to aid in this malfunction.

Running with gloves also helps as well...
Link Posted: 5/9/2010 5:43:15 PM EDT
[#42]



Quoted:


I can't believe I made a fucking video for you assholes.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzY9jLeI0BU
And we appreciate you taking the time to...





 
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