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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 3/27/2006 10:06:47 PM EDT
How come all the new pistol grips have a gap filler? How are you suppose to swing the trigger guard out of the way for use with heavy gloves?

For those that don't know, yes, the trigger guard swings out of the way. Use a bullet tip to push in the front of the trigger guard and it goes down along the front of the pistol grip.

Do manufacturers not realize that the trigger guard swings or do they believe that you'll never use this feature?

Hardwarz
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 10:08:22 PM EDT
gimmic
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:06:36 PM EDT
Was it meant to be swung out of the way for gloved shooting?

Just curious. I'm not a super tacticool mall ninja, don't shoot long distance matches nor does it get cold enough here so I never use gloves.

As far as gap fillers, all the ads state to stop the blisters. I've shot all day long and never was bothered by the gap or get a blister so I have to agree it's prolly a gimmick.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:13:25 PM EDT
I have never gotten a blister from shooting an AR.....maybe I need fatter hands.....
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:16:41 PM EDT
Magpul to the rescue!
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:20:17 PM EDT
The original trigger guard was meant to be used with the mittens used with the old extreme cold weather gear.

The gap filler is a god send for 3 day courses. That little gap can wear an uncomfortable spot on the side of your middle finger if you're carrying and shooting for three to five consecutive days.

As far as swinging the trigger guard out, I solved that problem by installing a MIAD grip with the F4 front strap that has an integrated winter trigger guard.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:56:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 11:58:29 PM EDT by jwise]

Originally Posted By desertmoon:
I have never gotten a blister from shooting an AR.....maybe I need fatter hands.....



I don't know your shooting habits, but I can vouch for skinny hands getting rubbed raw by that "gap." Carry your rifle for consecutive days on the range doing drills and one-handed handling (for mag changes, opening doors, etc...) Unless you're using a carbon fiber superlight rifle, the weight of the rifle will eventually start digging into your middle finger.

I have two rifles that don't get that kind of use, and they are perfectly fine without the "gapper" or special grips that fill that spot. All my serious use rifles have "fixed" the problem.

ETA: I thought the "gimmick" comment was aimed at the swing-down trigger guard! Maybe if I lived somewhere other than Texas, it might be useful.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 3:50:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hardwarz:
How come all the new pistol grips have a gap filler? How are you suppose to swing the trigger guard out of the way for use with heavy gloves?

For those that don't know, yes, the trigger guard swings out of the way. Use a bullet tip to push in the front of the trigger guard and it goes down along the front of the pistol grip.

Do manufacturers not realize that the trigger guard swings or do they believe that you'll never use this feature?

Hardwarz



use an AR that doesn't have the gap filler and use it for a 3 day carbine class and you will understand why there is the gap filler.

Almost nobody ever un latches the trigger guard plate especially eith the new Magpul guard and the RRA Winter guard. So the filler is a God send
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:06:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:15:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BookHound:
I thought things like "the gapper" were gimmicks until I took my first two-day carbine course. By early afternoon on the FIRST day I had a raw spot on my middle finger. Ended up shoving a foam earplug in the gap to finish the class.

I really like the Magpul enhanced trigger guard. It fills that gap area and offers a little more room in the trigger guard for use with gloves. Good upgrade, IMHO.



Amen, brother!
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:23:13 AM EDT
This is the usual case wherein people that leave the bench and fire their ARs in dynamic situations and over a longer period of time know and appreciate the piece of equipment in question, and those that don't haven't got a clue.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:38:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 4:38:49 AM EDT by Lancelot]

Originally Posted By hardwarz:
How come all the new pistol grips have a gap filler? How are you suppose to swing the trigger guard out of the way for use with heavy gloves?

The new grips address a need that shooters who actually use their guns have identified. If there wasn't a need they wouldn't be making them and selling lots of them. You aren't supposed to swing it out of the way with a gap filler in place, because most never do.

For those that don't know, yes, the trigger guard swings out of the way. Use a bullet tip to push in the front of the trigger guard and it goes down along the front of the pistol grip.

Yes it swings out of the way. It can also interfere with your grip when in the down position. Not a big deal though.

Do manufacturers not realize that the trigger guard swings or do they believe that you'll never use this feature?

Of course they realize it. They make the things. And again, most do not use it. The swing away is part of the required spec for the rifle, so until that changes it will be there. But some have found a better way of doing things. Ain't the free market system great!

Hardwarz

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:18:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 5:21:44 AM EDT by M4Guru]

Originally Posted By in_burrito:
This is the usual case wherein people that leave the bench and fire their ARs in dynamic situations and over a longer period of time know and appreciate the piece of equipment in question, and those that don't haven't got a clue.



Burrito is spot on. Buy thinner gloves. If they're so big you can't fit them in the trigger guard you don't need to be shooting in them anyways.

I have never ever ever ever seen a professional shooter flip down the trigger guard, nor can I think of some occasion where I would have done it myself. One look at the scar on my middle finger, though, makes me thankful for the gap fillers. Shoot about 3000K in a day or two with an M4 with heavy SOCOM barrel, M203, ACOG, PEQ-2, and Surefire 952 and see how comfortable that gap is.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:38:35 AM EDT
How rough that spot is varies from lower to lower; my first lower it never was an issue, on my other one you notice it right away. I think some people are just bent out of shape about spending $30 or $40 on a pistol grip.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:42:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 5:43:43 AM EDT by Onslaught]
Rock River Arms makes a "winter trigger guard" that has significantly more room for your gloved finger. If YOU actually need to move YOUR trigger guard bar out of the way when YOU'RE shooting YOUR AR, then I suggest you take a look at them.

The biggest flaw I see with the current concept is this... I f it's so dad-burned cold that I have to wear gloves THAT fat and can't take them off to pull the trigger, then it's WAAAAY too cold for me to be able to use a bullet tip to press in that tiny little pin and pull the bar out of the way.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 10:14:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 10:16:52 AM EDT by hardwarz]

Originally Posted By in_burrito:
This is the usual case wherein people that leave the bench and fire their ARs in dynamic situations and over a longer period of time know and appreciate the piece of equipment in question, and those that don't haven't got a clue.



It's been about 10 years since I was in the Marines as a 0311. I don't remember ever having a problem with my finger being rubbed raw.

Dynamic situations? I believe Panama counts for that.

Actually, I haven't shot or owned an AR/M16 based rifle since the Corps. I've stuck to my HK91 and HK USC. My Armalite M4C is only the 2nd AR based rifle I've owned in the past 2 years, so I'm rather new to the AR community/aftermarket parts arena.

Hardwarz
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 10:20:54 AM EDT
Its all a money thing
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 10:21:03 AM EDT
A hard core shooter once showed me the callous he has on his second finger from the gap. It happens.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 10:26:29 AM EDT
Right after I got my first AR about a year ago, just toying with it in the house gave me a blister. I ordered the gapper along with the accuwedge that same day. Never looked back.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 10:28:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By talbalos:
The original trigger guard was meant to be used with the mittens used with the old extreme cold weather gear.

The gap filler is a god send for 3 day courses. That little gap can wear an uncomfortable spot on the side of your middle finger if you're carrying and shooting for three to five consecutive days.

As far as swinging the trigger guard out, I solved that problem by installing a MIAD grip with the F4 front strap that has an integrated winter trigger guard.



Ya' nailed it.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 10:31:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4Guru:
I have never ever ever ever seen a professional shooter flip down the trigger guard, nor can I think of some occasion where I would have done it myself. One look at the scar on my middle finger, though, makes me thankful for the gap fillers. Shoot about 3000K in a day or two with an M4 with heavy SOCOM barrel, M203, ACOG M-68, PEQ-2 PAQ4, and Surefire 952 and see how comfortable that gap is.



+1

Carry, shoot, IMT, and sleep with one 24/7 for a month or better and the need will eventually show itself.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 10:39:59 AM EDT
The flip down trigger guard worked with the old A1 grip. When they switched to the A2 with the finger nub, it is useless. With the A1 grip it could swing down and rest up against the grip with little hand interference. With an A2 grip, it hits the nub and then sticks out at a 30degree angle, totally fucking up the grip.

So, I used a gapper for awhile, but when Magpul came out with their trigger guard, I put that on all my ARs. Swing down doesn't work anyway, so go with a comfortable grip and trigger guard.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 10:43:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hardwarz:

Originally Posted By in_burrito:
This is the usual case wherein people that leave the bench and fire their ARs in dynamic situations and over a longer period of time know and appreciate the piece of equipment in question, and those that don't haven't got a clue.



It's been about 10 years since I was in the Marines as a 0311. I don't remember ever having a problem with my finger being rubbed raw.

Dynamic situations? I believe Panama counts for that.

Actually, I haven't shot or owned an AR/M16 based rifle since the Corps. I've stuck to my HK91 and HK USC. My Armalite M4C is only the 2nd AR based rifle I've owned in the past 2 years, so I'm rather new to the AR community/aftermarket parts arena.

Hardwarz



Were you wearing gloves as a Marine in Panama?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 10:50:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 10:57:48 AM EDT by _DR]
I have found by neccessity that once the blister heals and the scar thickens, no "Gapper" is needed as a nice thick callus results and you don't notice the "gap".

When I was carrying an M16 around 24/7 we didn't have the luxury of gappers, custom grips and all the niceties. They are nice to have but not an essential by any stretch of the imagination.

The silver dollar sized blisters on my feet and aching back from the 75 lb Large Alice pack probably got more attention anyway.


Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:32:59 PM EDT
I would pay to see my old 1SG after you told him your finger was sore after 3 days and you wanted to install some contraption on your M4.

You can rest assured you wouldn't be worried about your blistered finger any more.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:13:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cpt_en_ca:
I would pay to see my old 1SG after you told him your finger was sore after 3 days and you wanted to install some contraption on your M4.

You can rest assured you wouldn't be worried about your blistered finger any more.



Yep. How times have changed.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:54:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hylton:
Its all a money thing

Well, not necessarily. I got a Magpul trigger guard in large part because I liked the continuation of the line of the magwell and makes for a comfortable, good looking, well finished triggerguard rather than any 'need' for a cold weather triggerguard. I'm my opinion, this triggerguard looks like it should have been the original design rather than that flat, cheesy looking piece. YMMV

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:58:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hylton:
Its all a money thing

Well, not necessarily.

I got a Magpul trigger guard in large part because I liked the continuation of the line of the magwell into the trigger guard. In my opinion, it makes for a good looking, well finished, and comfortable trigger guard that looks like it should have been the original design rather than that flat, cheesy looking piece they come with. My choice had nothing to do with any 'need' for a cold weather trigger guard. YMMV

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 8:44:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:
I have found by neccessity that once the blister heals and the scar thickens, no "Gapper" is needed as a nice thick callus results and you don't notice the "gap".

When I was carrying an M16 around 24/7 we didn't have the luxury of gappers, custom grips and all the niceties. They are nice to have but not an essential by any stretch of the imagination.

The silver dollar sized blisters on my feet and aching back from the 75 lb Large Alice pack probably got more attention anyway.



Blisters and rucks, that brings back some unpleasant memories.
Funny how I could carry a M-16 for hours on those road marches and never get a finger hurt.
Like you said though, could be that the other pain drowned out the finger pain.

I did watch a shooting school video once. They had a procedure for pulling down on the magazine after insertion to insure the mag was locked properly I believe. I always thought the blister could be from that procedure but don't know.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 8:53:46 PM EDT
A big +1 for the Magpul enhanced winter trigger guard
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:53:07 AM EDT
I made my own gappers using hot glue.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 1:14:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Were you wearing gloves as a Marine in Panama?



Um, no. But truthfully, now that I think about it, I carried a SAW more than I did my 16.


Originally Posted By _DR:
The silver dollar sized blisters on my feet and aching back from the 75 lb Large Alice pack probably got more attention anyway. hug.gif



My Swamp A$$ got more attention from me! hahaha
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:29:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 2:30:55 AM EDT by CAAAwarfighter]
I havent noticed a price increase due to the gapper being added so I wont complain. I like free stuff. By the way you should see the Former US Military bases now in Panama especially Rodman... what a mess. I bought a Magpul trigger guard but havent installed it yet on one of my rifles.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:51:24 AM EDT
Hmmmm...........

Never had that problem with my CavArms lower.

wganz

Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:59:31 AM EDT
When I first got into AR15s I did 3 things to make them more comfortable while at the range spending hours behind them.


1st was change the grips, my mongoloid wookie hands engulf those retarded little A2 grips. An Ergo grip barely works for me, the webbing up the back helps. But an SPR is the cats ass for me.


2nd thing was to take some paracord and wad it up and cram it into the gap at the rear of the triggerguard so that the ears of the triggerguard didn't rub my fingers raw.


3rd thing, I took the plastic triggerguards and sanded the 90 degree corners down so that they are rounded. It did actually make a bit of a difference in my mind when it came to things like shooting my accurized AR15s from the bench and trying to concentrate on the target. The triggerguard actually feels thinner and is less noticeable to me with the rounded corners. 5 triggerguards have all had the treatment, and any subsequent builds will have it done as well.


Little things like that might not matter to some but to others it's a small difference that is worth the trouble. I'm not gonna pay money for a "gapper" though when there are other alternatives, such as foam ear plugs if nothing else will work.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:07:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By uglygun:

3rd thing, I took the plastic triggerguards and sanded the 90 degree corners down so that they are rounded. It did actually make a bit of a difference in my mind when it came to things like shooting my accurized AR15s from the bench and trying to concentrate on the target. The triggerguard actually feels thinner and is less noticeable to me with the rounded corners. 5 triggerguards have all had the treatment, and any subsequent builds will have it done as well.


Little things like that might not matter to some but to others it's a small difference that is worth the trouble. I'm not gonna pay money for a "gapper" though when there are other alternatives, such as foam ear plugs if nothing else will work.



Yep, this can be done with fine carbide sandpaper, or careful dremeling on the alloy guards as well, with a little alumablack it's nicely finished if that matters to you.

And unlike the gapper, that solution will never fall out.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:09:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 4:13:50 AM EDT by metroplex]

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By uglygun:

3rd thing, I took the plastic triggerguards and sanded the 90 degree corners down so that they are rounded. It did actually make a bit of a difference in my mind when it came to things like shooting my accurized AR15s from the bench and trying to concentrate on the target. The triggerguard actually feels thinner and is less noticeable to me with the rounded corners. 5 triggerguards have all had the treatment, and any subsequent builds will have it done as well.


Little things like that might not matter to some but to others it's a small difference that is worth the trouble. I'm not gonna pay money for a "gapper" though when there are other alternatives, such as foam ear plugs if nothing else will work.



Yep, this can be done with fine carbide sandpaper, or careful dremeling on the alloy guards as well, with a little alumablack it's nicely finished if that matters to you.

And unlike the gapper, that solution will never fall out.



Have you ever used "The" gapper or a gapper? It won't fall out. I've tried. I've tried removing it using a pair of pliers and that sucker stays TIGHT. My plier just basically tore it piece by piece leaving the bulk of it in place. The only way to get it out completely is by loosening the pistol grip, and this was with my "Hot Glue" gapper (cost of half a glue stick).
I also made a slight modification to the gapper by extending the material all the way out towards the end of the lower receiver material. Basically if you look at it, the gapper only covers the gap but doesn't cover the extended part of the lower receiver which can still rub against your finger. My gapper covers that as well. Basically you just squirt hot glue into the gap and keep squirting it out. Use a metal bar to flatten it as much as possible and let it cool. Remove the gapper and trim it with scissors. It looks very professional and is comfortable to use. Most importantly the cost was practically nil, you enjoy making it, and you have spares for your other AR-15s or for your buddies.
Don't knock it until you've tried it .
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:16:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 4:19:45 AM EDT by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By ManiacRat461:
Was it meant to be swung out of the way for gloved shooting?



Yeah (as I look at my Army-issue trigger-finger-mittens - ROK -> freeze your ass off -> ECW trigger mittens), it was....

For Ft Drum, Korea, Alaska, etc - that feature might actually be useful

I hate cold weather...
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