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Posted: 8/6/2003 7:18:10 PM EDT
After reading (in horror) the thread from the exploding m4gery guy I got to thinking what could have happened in this scenario...

While shooting some surplus Israeli ammo, I had a case with no powder. The primer had enough force to lodge the bullet in the barrel's throat but would not let another round chamber. Now if someone wasn't careful and another round could have been chambered and fired, what sort of horrific damage would occur?

Scot
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 8:20:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2003 8:21:42 PM EDT by manghu67]
looks like you had a close call too! glad youre ok, could have been MUCH worse... you mean my scenario, or the one you describe? if you were talking about yours, thats a pop but no kick caused by a round that is either undercharged, or has no charge in it at all... little or no recoil... if you didnt notice it and fired another round, best case is a bulge in the barrel... worst case? lets just say you wouldnt have to worry about replacing your barrel... middle ground is the barrel turning into shrapnel and taking half your face off... exploding firearms are never a good thing, as i have most recently discovered... im no rocket scientist, but i do believe the explosion is supposed to propell the round out of the rifle, not the del-ton parts kit out of the rifle... [:)]
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 1:42:50 PM EDT
You had what we call a, "pop and no kick". Situational awareness is paramount to safe shooting. Just like listening to the engine of your car to hear any differences, the same can be said of your rifle. Feel the differences in kick, listen to sound, and watch for bullet strike. Stacking bullets in a barrel can definately get you hurt! DG OKC, OK
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 1:54:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 101ABN327: You had what we call a, "pop and no kick". Situational awareness is paramount to safe shooting. Just like listening to the engine of your car to hear any differences, the same can be said of your rifle. Feel the differences in kick, listen to sound, and watch for bullet strike. Stacking bullets in a barrel can definately get you hurt! DG OKC, OK
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Definitely True. Best to stop, pop the bolt out and look down the tube before shooting again. First hand experience from me to you here. Be safe, not sorry. MM419
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 5:06:33 PM EDT
If the round gets lodged before reaching the gas port, nothing will happen, as the carrier will not be automatically cycled. I would let the rifle sit for a while and allow it to release the residual chamber pressure before handling any further, then take it to a smith for fixin. If the round gets lodged past the gas port, your carrier might cycle a round successfully, but you will definetly notice, as an exploding fire will blow from the ejection port while the entire round discharge comes back thru the gas tube and into your chamber. I've heard there is risk of the fire blowing past the carrier and into the mag area, and burning small holes through a live casing. Doesn't sound good. If there is just enough gas (small charge) to cycle a fresh round into the chamber and it is fired into the squib... I can imagine pressures building to hughe levels in front and behind the fired round, pressures that FAR exceed maximum design safety margins for the chamber, barrel, and bolt locking lug. I don't know whether the chamber would blow up first or whether the bolt would explode backwards, but I couldn't imagine someone walking away unharmed from this one.
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 5:57:02 PM EDT
The scary thing with this happening to me was, I was not the one shooting. A very novice friend of mine was and he hands me the rifle and said something like, "the last shell didn't get kicked out". So I took the rifle, dropped the mag, and extracted the casing which looked perfectly normal (like a fired round). I knew something was wrong as this was definitely not a normal extractor failure (with the bolt staying locked "in battery"). I tried to chamber a round to see if it would extract properly. It did not chamber. The weird thing was, my buddy didn't say "it misfired" or "the last shot sounded funny". I'm quite sure had I been the one shooting I would have noticed... but he had not a clue. Now, I consider myself VERY safe... (I'm always yelling at people to wear safety glasses) but this was a very odd situation and could happen to anybody. Scot
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 6:07:17 PM EDT
Just because it is a reputable ammo manufacturer, doesn't mean squib loads can't happen. 1 round in 10 million isn't the best odds, but like everybody said earlier, situational awareness is the key. I had this happen with Federal .45 NIB duty ammo. Blew out the case just above the rim and dumped everything into the mag. Luckily for me Glocks stretch and bend, all I got was a change of under shorts and a bruised palm.
Link Posted: 8/15/2003 9:24:02 PM EDT
I have seen squibs with fresh factory ammo--in one case, an officer firing his duty weapon with the ammo he carried that day. It happens, and not just with reloads. He was also a gunsmith, and he also knew the safe procedure... he kept the muzzle pointed safely downrange for a period of time, then carefully opened the cylinder, checked the bore for an obstruction, before any more shooting.
Link Posted: 8/19/2003 9:11:45 PM EDT
Ok now this kind of scares me. Lets say I was just emptying a mag a fast as I could. There would be not time to tell if one did fire before you pulled the trigger again......
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 5:33:15 AM EDT
I've had a Kaboom (see my thread), and walked away with my face intact (still ugly, but intact), so now my "situational awareness" has skyrocketed. Most of the time we tend to forget that shooting a rifle implies a magnitude of forces that can hurt us real bad, so now I "thriple check" EVERYTHING, and I mean everything. It's like having survived a car accident, you'll never push the gas pedal as before. Still today, I can't shoot rapid-fire....
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 7:00:18 AM EDT
I had a close call when trying different brands of ammo in an Armalite AR15A2C. When I manually ejected a live round to switch ammo the bullet stayed lodged in the barrel and when trying to insert a new round I found that it would not chamber. I also had some blown primers with various NATO spec ammo so it appears this was caused by a tight .223 chamber. This was a on going problem so I had the rifle re-barreled with a NATO spec chambered RRA M4 barrel with a faux A2 flash hider. That fixed the problem as the rifle has not malfuctioned for any reason after several hundred rounds.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 7:29:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 82_Airborne: Lets say I was just emptying a mag a fast as I could. There would be not time to tell if one did fire before you pulled the trigger again......
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With a squib, the power will not be enough to cycle the rifle for the next round. You'll get a "click" (or nothing) when you pull the trigger, and when you open the action the case (usually) will still be in the chamber. When you extract it, you'll wonder why it didn't cycle. That's when the alarm bells start going off, and you check your barrel and find there's no light coming through it. I've had this happen in auto pistols, and a MAC-10 subgun. On the subgun, they guy cocked the bolt and fired another round, and wound up with 2 bullets lodged in the barrel. That's when you get your "dammit stick" and pound them out from the muzzle. In the case of the subgun, no damage to the barrel occurred.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 11:21:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JayCeeNC:
Originally Posted By 82_Airborne: Lets say I was just emptying a mag a fast as I could. There would be not time to tell if one did fire before you pulled the trigger again......
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I've had this happen in auto pistols, and a MAC-10 subgun. On the subgun, they guy cocked the bolt and fired another round, and wound up with 2 bullets lodged in the barrel. That's when you get your "dammit stick" and pound them out from the muzzle. In the case of the subgun, no damage to the barrel occurred.
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[b]WOW[/b] That's amazing to me. I would have guessed the worst (barrel turning to shrapnel)firing another round into a blocked barrel. I guess you just can't tell.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 11:59:19 AM EDT
In the case of the subgun, no damage to the barrel occurred.
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Was it a blow-back design? If so, then all that blast got spashed out into the receiver.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 4:39:43 PM EDT
The Mac 10 is an open bolt blowback subgun, much like the uzi. It is still suprising that it didn't blow up.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 6:23:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
In the case of the subgun, no damage to the barrel occurred.
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Was it a blow-back design? If so, then all that blast got spashed out into the receiver.
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I was standing to the right of it when it was fired, the blast and tiny particles struck me in the face from the ejection port. Not enough to hurt, just sting a bit. Got the whole thing on video, too.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 9:31:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 82_Airborne: Ok now this kind of scares me. Lets say I was just emptying a mag a fast as I could. There would be not time to tell if one did fire before you pulled the trigger again......
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It won't happen, if the rd is undercharged it will get lodged in the barrel and not create enough pressure to cycle the next rd, the problem is that a lot of people do not realize that they have a stuck rd and then hand cycle the weapon and bamm. [:)] Be careful out there!
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