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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/15/2005 6:24:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 6:06:04 PM EDT by _DR]
Quite a lot of hype. Is it well justified? Numbers look good.
Looking for a new home defense load, had XM193 ready but thought this stuff might work better.

Any personal experiences?


Link Posted: 8/15/2005 10:16:45 PM EDT
The 75gr Hornady bullet has even better terminal ballistics than the 77 SMK, due to the shorter neck region. The TAP loading of it ought to be an excellent choice.

-z
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 10:38:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 10:46:08 PM EDT by Charging_Handle]
www.northwestloading.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_2&products_id=1078

My question is, how does this version of Hornady TAP differ from the older Hornady TAP in all red boxes with normal brass cases? I haven't bought any in a long time and I'm not at all familiar with this newer version.

Is this by chance the hotter loaded version that's so hard to find? Or is this just like all the other TAP except with black nickel coated cases?

Also, here's the ballistic data listed on Northwest Loading's website:

Muzzle velocity: 2616 FPS
13.63 inch gelatin penetration
20.8 grains retained weight
72% fragmentation

That velocity is significantly less than the figures shown in _DR's post. But I have no idea what barrel length or what range these numbers were generated by.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 5:26:55 AM EDT
Bumped for further discussion....would like to know if this TAP load is any different than the other TAP load other than the special case coating.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 6:30:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 6:43:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zak-Smith:
The 75gr Hornady bullet has even better terminal ballistics than the 77 SMK, due to the shorter neck region. The TAP loading of it ought to be an excellent choice.

-z



Which bullet is that? I'd like to make some mongo TAP.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 6:43:49 AM EDT
Thanks Brou.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 7:38:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
www.northwestloading.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_2&products_id=1078

My question is, how does this version of Hornady TAP differ from the older Hornady TAP in all red boxes with normal brass cases? I haven't bought any in a long time and I'm not at all familiar with this newer version.

Is this by chance the hotter loaded version that's so hard to find? Or is this just like all the other TAP except with black nickel coated cases?

Also, here's the ballistic data listed on Northwest Loading's website:

Muzzle velocity: 2616 FPS
13.63 inch gelatin penetration
20.8 grains retained weight
72% fragmentation

That velocity is significantly less than the figures shown in _DR's post. But I have no idea what barrel length or what range these numbers were generated by.



Good question - the figures I posted are from Hornady's website.
I will check and see if the 75gr TAP FPD figures differ from the 75gr Match load figures on their site.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 7:45:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 8:06:05 AM EDT by _DR]
Hornady says....

Brouhaha is correct! or at least the ballistics are the same





Although I guess that would mean the TAP uses the same HPBT bullet and though only difference is the black moly coating. Hornady charges $2 a box more for this. If that is the only difference it does seem like marketing hype, and I would be better off with the factory Hornady 75 grain match ammo.
I realize the moly coating is supposed to help smooth feeding, but that has never been a problem with any of my ARs much less the 6920 which is the designated home defense long arm. can't see that it is worth the extra cash. Anybody think different?



Link Posted: 8/16/2005 7:52:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mongo001:


The 75gr Hornady bullet has even better terminal ballistics than the 77 SMK, due to the shorter neck region. The TAP loading of it ought to be an excellent choice.


Which bullet is that? I'd like to make some mongo TAP.


75gr Hornady BTHP
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 8:17:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 8:19:36 AM EDT by HVMT556]
Moly coated?? Mine are black nickle cases, std copper projectile. The projectile is cannalured as well. For me ....their worth the extra.....YMMV

Also found they crono a true 2500fps from my LMT 14.5' tube.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 8:23:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 8:24:56 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By HVMT556:
Moly coated?? Mine are black nickle cases, std copper projectile. The projectile is cannalured as well. For me ....their worth the extra.....YMMV

Also found they crono a true 2500fps from my LMT 14.5' tube.



ok so the black casings are nickel coated, and the match load is not cannelured? Then I agree, the TAP is worth the extra $2 or so a box. I really don't have a problem with plain brass cartridges, but I appreciate the value of the cannelure. Although I don't see a cannelure in the photo of the TAP cartridge.

Thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 8:27:04 AM EDT
Yeah, I would imagine the nearly 2800 fps muzzle velocity is from a 24" barrel, not a 16" or 20" AR barrel. That would definately be getting into mil-spec velocities to push a bullet that fast from such a barrel length.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:22:25 AM EDT
MidwayUSA won't have any in stock until at least next month, but if you could buy it, their price for a 20rd box of 75gr is $2 lower than NLS:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=118191
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:36:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macros73:
MidwayUSA won't have any in stock until at least next month, but if you could buy it, their price for a 20rd box of 75gr is $2 lower than NLS:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=118191



Great price,too thanks for the link.
Also, I see the cannelure in Midways pic.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:36:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
www.northwestloading.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_2&products_id=1078

My question is, how does this version of Hornady TAP differ from the older Hornady TAP in all red boxes with normal brass cases? I haven't bought any in a long time and I'm not at all familiar with this newer version.

Is this by chance the hotter loaded version that's so hard to find? Or is this just like all the other TAP except with black nickel coated cases?

Also, here's the ballistic data listed on Northwest Loading's website:

Muzzle velocity: 2616 FPS
13.63 inch gelatin penetration


One difference is the older TAP "urban" in the all red box has a significant crimp into the canelure. One member posted recently that the FPD load has a canelure but is not crimped. FWIW

Dr.
20.8 grains retained weight
72% fragmentation

That velocity is significantly less than the figures shown in _DR's post. But I have no idea what barrel length or what range these numbers were generated by.

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:40:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DrLee:
Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
www.northwestloading.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_2&products_id=1078

My question is, how does this version of Hornady TAP differ from the older Hornady TAP in all red boxes with normal brass cases? I haven't bought any in a long time and I'm not at all familiar with this newer version.

Is this by chance the hotter loaded version that's so hard to find? Or is this just like all the other TAP except with black nickel coated cases?

Also, here's the ballistic data listed on Northwest Loading's website:

Muzzle velocity: 2616 FPS
13.63 inch gelatin penetration


One difference is the older TAP "urban" in the all red box has a significant crimp into the canelure. One member posted recently that the FPD load has a canelure but is not crimped. FWIW

Dr.
20.8 grains retained weight
72% fragmentation

That velocity is significantly less than the figures shown in _DR's post. But I have no idea what barrel length or what range these numbers were generated by.

[/quote


oops, sorry I didn't see the rest of your post.
Like my post reads, Older TAP "urban" in the red box has a good crimp into the canelure. TAP FPD has a canelure but is not crimped.

Dr. Lee
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:40:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
www.northwestloading.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_2&products_id=1078

My question is, how does this version of Hornady TAP differ from the older Hornady TAP in all red boxes with normal brass cases? I haven't bought any in a long time and I'm not at all familiar with this newer version.

Is this by chance the hotter loaded version that's so hard to find? Or is this just like all the other TAP except with black nickel coated cases?

Also, here's the ballistic data listed on Northwest Loading's website:

Muzzle velocity: 2616 FPS
13.63 inch gelatin penetration
20.8 grains retained weight
72% fragmentation

That velocity is significantly less than the figures shown in _DR's post. But I have no idea what barrel length or what range these numbers were generated by.




No, its the same stuff, just in the black case. The 5.56 loading is still next to impossible to get
unless an LEO department orders it.

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:45:15 PM EDT
Time for a groupbuy. We could all sign waivers stating we know only to fire it in rifles in 5.56mm chambers and that we won't hold Hornady responsible, etc etc.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 12:46:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 1:19:50 PM EDT by TexasSIG]

Originally Posted By macros73:
Time for a groupbuy. We could all sign waivers stating we know only to fire it in rifles in 5.56mm chambers and that we won't hold Hornady responsible, etc etc.



Wont' matter. They wont' even sell to indivudual officers with LEO letterhead, has to
come from a department PO. That's what I've been told by the Hornady rep anyway.

I've been buying the .223 stuff from Northwest Loading Supply
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 1:18:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 1:19:25 PM EDT by AKSU-74]
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 1:22:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AKSU-74:
$12.92 @ www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000380268



But not in stock.......
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 1:32:59 PM EDT
DOH! I missed that, none of the vender's here in the EE or Industry forum carry it?
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 1:33:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AKSU-74:
DOH! I missed that, none of the vender's here in the EE or Industry forum carry it?




Everyone seems to be out at the moment. I was going to order another 200 but no one
has any. I'll try again in a few weeks I guess.....
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 3:33:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 4:28:32 PM EDT by thezman]
Nothing against Hornady, but isn't the Black Hills Red Box loading the same thing in a brass case.

It uses the Hornady 75gr BTHP bullet loaded in new cases.

The ones I have use a cannelured bullet and clock at 2525 fps out of my 14.5 Bushy bbl.
ETA: They have sealed primers also.

Other than the nickel case it appears to be the same load.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 9:22:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 9:24:27 PM EDT by Charging_Handle]
You guys just be careful when ordering this ammo. I'm not sure if they still produce it, but there use to be a 75 gr polymer tipped load sold under the TAP name as well. It's not as good as the BTHP. So when ordering, to be on the safe side, double check to make sure you are getting the 75 gr BTHP load, not the polymer tip stuff. Midsouth's description is kinda vague as to bullet style, so I thought I'd pass that along.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 3:10:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2005 3:12:31 PM EDT by M4-CQBR]
I've found a local LEO supply of this ammo at $13 a box of 20rds, and plan to order as many cases as possible.
I only want a couple cases for myself, and will pass on the rest to whomever wants it.
Placing the order next Monday for the Hornady 5.56mm TAP FPD 75gr BTHP
I have no further info right now. . . Will check in when I have details.



M4-CQBR

Sic vis pacem para bellum.




Link Posted: 8/19/2005 3:58:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
You guys just be careful when ordering this ammo. I'm not sure if they still produce it, but there use to be a 75 gr polymer tipped load sold under the TAP name as well. It's not as good as the BTHP. So when ordering, to be on the safe side, double check to make sure you are getting the 75 gr BTHP load, not the polymer tip stuff. Midsouth's description is kinda vague as to bullet style, so I thought I'd pass that along.



Are you sure? I am not aware of ANY factory 75 grain AMAX loading in the TAP line. Im about 98% certain this does not exist.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 1:49:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
You guys just be careful when ordering this ammo. I'm not sure if they still produce it, but there use to be a 75 gr polymer tipped load sold under the TAP name as well. It's not as good as the BTHP. So when ordering, to be on the safe side, double check to make sure you are getting the 75 gr BTHP load, not the polymer tip stuff. Midsouth's description is kinda vague as to bullet style, so I thought I'd pass that along.



Are you sure? I am not aware of ANY factory 75 grain AMAX loading in the TAP line. Im about 98% certain this does not exist.



Like I said, it may no longer be in production, but as recently as a couple of years ago, there was a 75 gr polymer tipped offering from Hornady. I may be confused about it being in the TAP line, but I remember it was causing some confusion and I recall some of our ammo gurus telling the members here to be sure they got the BTHP version, not the polymer version...because the polymer tipped version sucked.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 7:14:02 AM EDT
Barrel: 18.5"
Temp: 80
Elev: 830

Brass: L.C.
Bullet: Hndy 75gr BTHP Match
Powder: H4895 (24gr for my load)
Primer: Win SR

Average velocity: 2745

Price per round: $.26 ($5.20 per 20 rnds)

Haven't seen any peak pressure signs yet. Been loading this for about a year now.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 7:34:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2005 7:35:50 AM EDT by TexasSIG]

Originally Posted By M4-CQBR:
I've found a local LEO supply of this ammo at $13 a box of 20rds, and plan to order as many cases as possible.
I only want a couple cases for myself, and will pass on the rest to whomever wants it.
Placing the order next Monday for the Hornady 5.56mm TAP FPD 75gr BTHP
I have no further info right now. . . Will check in when I have details.



M4-CQBR
us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mo/cg_punisher2poster.jpg
Sic vis pacem para bellum.

img50.imageshack.us/img50/2976/199610382642ba16736161f7to.gif






Good Lord, what a great price. I'll take a couple of cases of your leftovers.
Seriously. IM me if you do have some left to sell.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 10:23:55 AM EDT
Be careful if you guys find some of the older red boxed variety. I've had a couple of set back projectiles due to the lack of a cannelure.



Link Posted: 8/20/2005 3:09:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:
Be careful if you guys find some of the older red boxed variety. I've had a couple of set back projectiles due to the lack of a cannelure.

home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/Tap.JPG

home.comcast.net/~cjan99999/M4_tap.jpg



Honestly, cannelure should be required by law.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:55:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
www.northwestloading.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_2&products_id=1078

My question is, how does this version of Hornady TAP differ from the older Hornady TAP in all red boxes with normal brass cases? I haven't bought any in a long time and I'm not at all familiar with this newer version.

Is this by chance the hotter loaded version that's so hard to find? Or is this just like all the other TAP except with black nickel coated cases?

Also, here's the ballistic data listed on Northwest Loading's website:

Muzzle velocity: 2616 FPS
13.63 inch gelatin penetration
20.8 grains retained weight
72% fragmentation

That velocity is significantly less than the figures shown in _DR's post. But I have no idea what barrel length or what range these numbers were generated by.



Bought some of the black nick. cased stuff just recently.....talked to a Hornadey LE rep. prior to purchase....Horn. advises.exact same bullet and loading...different case and box...red box is LE only and more importantly is excise tax free.....black nickle case is made for civ. market same loading diff. marketing.....would like to get my hands on the NATO pressure stuff though LE agency only though.......
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 7:11:25 PM EDT
I bought a few boxes of the Black box FPD it is not a poly tip bullet. Through my rifles it clocked 2798 fps through a 24" RRA Varmint, 2590 fps through a 20" Colt and 2515 fps through a 16" Colt. It was good accurate ammo, I got one five shot group that measured 2.68" at 400 yards with the RRA.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 7:57:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:

Originally Posted By DevL:

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
You guys just be careful when ordering this ammo. I'm not sure if they still produce it, but there use to be a 75 gr polymer tipped load sold under the TAP name as well. It's not as good as the BTHP. So when ordering, to be on the safe side, double check to make sure you are getting the 75 gr BTHP load, not the polymer tip stuff. Midsouth's description is kinda vague as to bullet style, so I thought I'd pass that along.



Are you sure? I am not aware of ANY factory 75 grain AMAX loading in the TAP line. Im about 98% certain this does not exist.



Like I said, it may no longer be in production, but as recently as a couple of years ago, there was a 75 gr polymer tipped offering from Hornady. I may be confused about it being in the TAP line, but I remember it was causing some confusion and I recall some of our ammo gurus telling the members here to be sure they got the BTHP version, not the polymer version...because the polymer tipped version sucked.



Sure your not thinking of a 60 grain V-max load in the TAP line? 75 Amax I don't think can be loaded to mag length -- the ogive is too long if I'm not mistaken.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 5:34:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2005 5:35:22 AM EDT by TexasSIG]
Well, I found some in case anyone is still looking. They claim to have it in stock at least,
I am placing an order and we'll see. $14.79 a box. Not a great price but about what I've been seeing.

www.outdoormarksman.com/product_info.php?products_id=16055&osCsid=6eaa078805f425927ac0e8b54e1feeff
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:02:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2005 6:13:52 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:
Well, I found some in case anyone is still looking. They claim to have it in stock at least,
I am placing an order and we'll see. $14.79 a box. Not a great price but about what I've been seeing.

www.outdoormarksman.com/product_info.php?products_id=16055&osCsid=6eaa078805f425927ac0e8b54e1feeff



Dammit - says "unavailable" now.

OK only the 200 round pack is sold out, ordered a box to try out.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 7:37:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jmart:

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:

Originally Posted By DevL:

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
You guys just be careful when ordering this ammo. I'm not sure if they still produce it, but there use to be a 75 gr polymer tipped load sold under the TAP name as well. It's not as good as the BTHP. So when ordering, to be on the safe side, double check to make sure you are getting the 75 gr BTHP load, not the polymer tip stuff. Midsouth's description is kinda vague as to bullet style, so I thought I'd pass that along.



Are you sure? I am not aware of ANY factory 75 grain AMAX loading in the TAP line. Im about 98% certain this does not exist.



Like I said, it may no longer be in production, but as recently as a couple of years ago, there was a 75 gr polymer tipped offering from Hornady. I may be confused about it being in the TAP line, but I remember it was causing some confusion and I recall some of our ammo gurus telling the members here to be sure they got the BTHP version, not the polymer version...because the polymer tipped version sucked.



Sure your not thinking of a 60 grain V-max load in the TAP line? 75 Amax I don't think can be loaded to mag length -- the ogive is too long if I'm not mistaken.



No, I'm not thinking of the 60 gr.
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