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Posted: 7/20/2008 9:13:15 AM EST
Hey, guys,

Does anyone know what the difference between Hornady's 75 gr. hollow point boat tail match and their 75 gr. TAP round is?

My local shop had the 75 gr. match stuff, and I've already got some 75 gr. TAP stashed away, but I can't seem to tell the difference, other than the fact that the TAP has the dark, coated casing, while the match seems to just have the brass casing.

Is there something else that's different about the design of the TAP bullet? Or is the coating the only difference?

Thanks,
~Augee
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 9:51:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 9:53:52 AM EST by Molon]
Catalog of Hornady 75 Grain Loads

Here is a little “visual catalog” of the 5 different loads that Hornady produces using a 75 grain bullet. I thought it might help clear up some of the confusion pertaining to the various loads offered by Hornady.




75 grain BTHP MATCH: catalog #8026
223 Remington




This load uses the 75 grain BTHP “T1” bullet without a cannelure. (The is the same bullet that is available as a reloading component.) The case neck does have a very slight taper crimp. The powder used is a short cut extruded type. The lots of this load that I have chronographed have had velocities similar to or slightly higher than the velocities of the 75 grain TAP FPD load (depending on the barrel.)

75 grain BTHP TAP Precision: catalog #80265
223 Remington

The original version of this load was referred to as "TAP Precision" while the more recent version has dropped the "Precision" nomenclature. Both versions come in a red box, but the newer version uses the same style of label on the box that the 5.56 TAP ammunition uses, adding to the confusion.

original
current


This load is the forerunner to the TAP FPD load. This load uses the T1 bullet with a cannelure and has a firm taper crimp on the case neck. This load also uses extruded powder and has a velocity similar to 75 grain TAP FPD. The primers are not crimped and the cases are plain brass.


original


current






75 grain TAP FPD (For Personal Defense): catalog #80268
223 Remington



I think this is the load that started a lot of the confusion about the various 75 grain loads offered by Hornday. First off, the ammo comes in a black box. The box is still labeled as “TAP”, but it also has the “For Personal Defense” title on it. Besides the black box, this round also has the “black nickel” coated cases giving the round its distinctive appearance.

Other than the black box and black case the round is basically the same as the 75 grain BTHP TAP Precision load. It uses the T1 bullet with a cannelure and crimped case neck as well as the extruded powder. It does not have crimped primers. The muzzle velocity of this load runs around 2640 fps from a 20” chrome lined, NATO chambered Colt barrel.

TAP 5.56 X 45
75 grain BTHP/WC T2:
catalog #8126N



This is the NATO pressure load. It comes in a red TAP box, but the side panel is clearly labeled 5.56 X 45. The panel has a disclaimer that reads “NOT FOR USE IN 223 CHAMBERS.” I think this load is confused with the 75 grain BTHP TAP Precision load because they both come packaged in the red TAP box.

One of the biggest features of this round besides being loaded to NATO pressures is the new T2 bullet. The ogive of the T2 bullet is shorter than the T1 bullet and the T2 bullet has a longer bearing surface than the T1 bullet. The T2 bullets also have incredibly uniform meplats giving the loaded round a more uniform overall length. It is reported that the shape of the bullet was designed so as to improve feeding in the M4 platform.





The T2 bullet has a cannelure and the case neck has a firm taper crimp. The primers for this load are crimped in place and the primer itself is reported to be a “mil-spec” primer. The more recent lots of this load have sealed primers. Contrary to advertisements, none of the lots of this load that I have seen have a sealed case mouth. This load uses ball powder and has a muzzle velocity of around 2820 fps from a 20” chrome lined, NATO chambered barrel.











I’d like to dispel the rumor that the TAP 5.56 X 45 load uses a large rifle primer. This is completely false and can be proved with the application of a tiny bit of science. The nominal diameter for small rifle primers is 0.175 inches.* De-priming a fired TAP 5.56 X 45 case and measuring the spent primer with digital calipers shows the primer has a diameter of 0.174”.





75 grain Practice: catalog #9760
223 Remington





This load comes in a white, 50 round box. The distinctive feature about this round is the Berdan primed steel case that it uses. This load uses the T1 bullet with a cannelure and taper crimp. The load is charged with ball powder and has velocities similar to the 75 grain TAP FPD load.



*The ABC’s of Reloading, page 45.

Hornady 75 grain 223 TAP versus 75 grain MATCH





Hornady’s 75 grain BTHP Match ammunition (part #8026) is loaded with the same 75 grain boat-tail hollow point bullet that is available from Hornady as a reloading component (part #2279). The case mouth of the Match load has a slight taper crimp on it which puts a small crease in the bullet itself. The Hornady 75 grain 223 TAP load (part #80265) uses the same 75 grain BTHP bullet as the Match load with the addition of a cannelure. Unfortunately, the cannelured version of this bullet is not available (to the general public) as a reloading component.






Previous lots of both the Match and 223 TAP load have been charged with a short-cut, charcoal colored extruded powder, while the most recent lots that I have purchased (including the ones used in this test session) are charged with a greenish/yellowish colored short cut, extruded powder resembling those powders found in the Hodgdon lineup of powders. Both loads use traditional brass cases and the caseheads from both loads are head-stamped “Hornady 223-REM” and neither load appears to have sealed nor crimped primers. The case mouth of the 223 TAP load is crimped into the cannelure of the bullet.





previous powder


recent powder


Chronograph testing was done using an Oehler 35-P chronograph with "proof-screen" technology. All strings of fire consisted of 10-shots each. All velocities listed below are muzzle velocities, as calculated from the instrumental velocities using Oehler’s Ballistic Explorer software program.





Accuracy testing was performed using my 24” Krieger barreled AR-15. Shooting was done from a bench-rest at 100 yards. All groups were 10-shot groups. Prior to testing the Hornady ammunition, I fired a 10-shot control group using handloaded 55 grain Sierra BlitzKings. That group had an extreme spread of 0.63”.



Starting with the Hornady 75 grain 223 TAP load, I fired five, 10-shot groups from 100 yards and used the best three groups for analysis. Those three groups had extreme spreads that measured:

1.17”
0.87”
1.05”

for a 10-shot group grand average of 1.03”. The three 10-shot groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group that had a composite mean radius of 0.32”.


best 10-shot group of 75 grain 223 TAP



In the same manner described above, I obtained three 10-shot groups of the Hornady 75 grain Match load. The extreme spreads of those groups measured:

0.89”
1.03”
1.16”

for a 10-shot group grand average of 1.03”! Over-laying those three groups on each other using RSI Shooting Lab yielded a 30-shot composite group with a mean radius of 0.36”.



best 10-shot group of 75 grain MATCH



For additional comparison, I obtained three 10-shot groups from 100 yards using hand-loaded Hornady 75 grain BTHP bullets. The extreme spreads of those groups measured:

0.78”
0.71”
0.52”

for a 10-shot grand average of 0.67”. The mean radius formed from over-laying those three groups on each other was 0.23”.


best 10-shot group of hand-loaded 75 grain BTHP



Here’s a pic of the composite groups side by side for comparison.



Lastly, in a tribute to the Internet Commando, I fired two, 3-shot groups in a row from 100 yards using the control load. Both groups were sub-QUARTER-minute-of-angle.




Link Posted: 7/20/2008 10:31:43 AM EST
Holy Mother of all TAP posts...

Out-fricken-standing!!!!!!
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 11:24:27 AM EST


Wow, Molon! That's certainly comprehensive...

Here's a question for you, though,

How does it compare ballistically to S&B M855/SS109 and M856 inside 300m?

Thanks a lot, Molon! Excellent little guide to Hornady 75gr. I hadn't the faintest idea that there were so many variations.

~Augee
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 2:00:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 2:03:18 PM EST by phoenix27]
Molon-
You have truly outdone yourself with this one, thanks for the info.

Have you ever compared the Hornady 75-gr family of rounds to the Black Hills blue and red box of the same bullet size for velocity and accuracy?
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 3:15:08 PM EST
Molon,

Do NOT get a life. We like your attention to detail.

Thanks man!

SoS
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 4:06:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 4:08:48 PM EST by Molon]

Originally Posted By phoenix27:


Have you ever compared the Hornady 75-gr family of rounds to the Black Hills blue and red box of the same bullet size for velocity and accuracy?


You're killin' me.



Black Hills 75 grain Match HP Ammunition: blue box versus red box




The difference between Black Hills’ red box and blue box ammunition lies primarily with the brass case. Red box ammunition is newly manufactured using virgin brass. Blue box ammunition is referred to as “remanufactured” because is uses once fired brass that has been resized. This enables Black Hills to sell the blue box ammunition at a reduced price compared to their red box ammunition.

Black Hills’ 75 grain Match HP (hollow point) ammunition is loaded with Hornady’s 75 grain BTHP Match bullet with a cannelure (referred to as the "T1C" here on AR15.com) and both the red box and blue box loads have a crimp at the case mouth. Both loads are charged with “ball powder.” The nominal OAL for the red box cartridges ran around 2.245” and for the blue box cartridges it was closer to 2.250".










The cases used in the red box ammo have sealed primers and the headstamp of most lots of this load read “BHA 223 MATCH.” These virgin cases have a nominal length of 1.755”. The cases used in the blue box load tend to be a mix of once fired Lake City and Winchester brass. The military primer crimps has been removed by the reaming method. The blue box loads do not have sealed primers.






Black Hills does not perform a “trim to length” operation on the resized cases used in the blue box ammunition. As a result, many of the cases are longer than the SAAMI recommended maximum length of 1.760”. Several of the cases that I measured had a length of 1.775”. This could potentially cause problems in a barrel with a minimum length chamber, though no malfunctions of any kind were experienced during the testing of this ammunition. (Using a Sinclair chamber length gauge, I determined the chambers of my Colt barrels have a length of 1.780”.)

Both loads were chronographed using four different length barrels. All of the Colt barrels used in testing have a NATO chamber and a 1:7” twist. The 24” Krieger barrel has a 5.56 Match chamber and has a twist rate of 1:7.7”. On their web-site, Black Hills advertises a muzzle velocity of 2,750 fps for these loads, but they do not state the barrel length associated with this velocity.

An Oehler 35-P chronograph with “proof screen technology” was used in testing. All velocities listed are muzzle velocities obtained from the instrumental velocities using Oehler’s Ballistic Explorer software. Strings of fire consisted of 10 rounds each.



While chronographing the Black Hills loads through the 24” Krieger barrel, I also chronographed three of Hornady’s SAAMI pressure, 75 grain loads that use the T1C bullet for comparison.



atmospheric conditions:

Average temperature- 80 degrees F
Humidity - 48%
Barometric pressure – 29.04
Elevation- 960 feet above sea level


For additional comparison, I also fired the Black Hills loads side-by-side with some of the Hornady 75 grain SAAMI pressure loads from the 20” Colt A2 barrel.







100 yard Accuracy Evaluation of Black Hills 75 grain MHP: red box versus blue box.





As previously discussed in this thread, the primary difference between Black Hills' red box and blue box ammunition lies with the brass case. Red box ammunition uses virgin brass, while blue box ammunition uses once fired brass that has been resized.

Both the red box and blue box 75 grain Match hollow point loads use the Hornady 75 grain BTHP bullet with a cannelure and both have crimped case necks. Both loads are charged with “ball” powder and with the two lots of this ammunition that I chronographed the blue box load ran an average of 50 fps faster than the red box.

Accuracy testing of both loads was done from a bench-rest at 100 yards. The test-vehicle was an AR-15 with a 24” stainless-steel Kreiger VarMatch barrel, with a 1:7.7” twist, installed on a LaRue Tactical Stealth upper receiver. A Leupold Competition Series Scope was used for sighting. No malfunctions of any kind were experienced during testing.



Prior to testing the Black Hills ammunition, I obtained three 10-shot groups of a control load consisting of hand-loaded Sierra 55 grain BlitzKings (at a distance of 100 yards of course.) Those three groups had extreme spreads of:

0.537”
0.57”
0.69”

for an average extreme spread of 0.599”.

The three 10-shot groups were overlayed on each using RSI Shooting Lab to obtain a 30-shot composite group that had a mean radius of 0.19”.



Best 10-shot group of the control load.



Following the same procedures used with the control load, three 10-shot groups of the Black Hills red box 75 grain MHP fired from 100 yards were obtained. Their extreme spreads measured:

0.96”
1.00”
1.04”

for an average extreme spread of 1.00”.

As with the control load, the three 10-shot groups from the red box ammunition were overlayed on each other to obtain a 30-shot composite group with a mean radius of 0.32”.

In the same manner as above, three 10-shot groups of the blue box 75 grain MHP were obtained from 100 yards with extreme spreads of:

1.11”
1.16”
1.16”

for an average extreme spread of 1.14”.

Those three 10-shot groups overlayed on each other had a mean radius of 0.37”. Here are the 30-shot composite groups side-by-side for comparison.



The best 10-shot groups from the Black Hills 75 grain MHP loads.



Lastly, for the Internet Commandos in our audience, I fired a 3-shot group of the red box 75 grain MHP from 100 yards. That group measured 0.276”.



Link Posted: 7/20/2008 4:36:21 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 4:42:46 PM EST
Molon-
Superb stuff and a great doctoral thesis. I think the FBI/Quantico needs you. Thanks for the info.
capt.john
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 5:44:26 PM EST
Theoretically speaking if a person wanted to stockpile a lot of high quality 75 grain loads for SHTF scenarios and/or ammunition shortages would the Hornady 75 grain match be just as effective as TAP?

From what I am reading and seeing here it sure looks like it. I have only one local source for TAP and they sell it as quickly as they get it in. The match stuff on the other hand I can get any where and I think its a shade cheaper too.


Link Posted: 7/20/2008 6:49:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By Specter1975:
Theoretically speaking if a person wanted to stockpile a lot of high quality 75 grain loads for SHTF scenarios and/or ammunition shortages would the Hornady 75 grain match be just as effective as TAP?

From what I am reading and seeing here it sure looks like it. I have only one local source for TAP and they sell it as quickly as they get it in. The match stuff on the other hand I can get any where and I think its a shade cheaper too.




Pretty much anything loading the T1 or T1c bullet will have similar performance to the TAP loads
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 2:07:10 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By Specter1975:
Theoretically speaking if a person wanted to stockpile a lot of high quality 75 grain loads for SHTF scenarios and/or ammunition shortages would the Hornady 75 grain match be just as effective as TAP?

I have only one local source for TAP and they sell it as quickly as they get it in.


If you are having trouble getting the loads you need locally, check out some of the online sites. I have used Ammunition to Go and gotten quick delivery and great service. They really have a large selection of ammunition and you can often buy in 200 or 1000 round lots. Website: http://ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/index.php

MidwayUSA is another good one: http://www.midwayusa.com/


Link Posted: 7/21/2008 9:56:16 AM EST
I am very impressed with your post and would like to thank you for the time you put into it. I am curious what your handload data is for the 75 grain and 55 grain loads. Powder?

Thanks again for your hard work in this.
Link Posted: 7/23/2008 12:41:40 AM EST
bump for the time/effort put into it plus the great info.
Link Posted: 7/23/2008 7:15:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/23/2008 9:07:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By Recoil737:
bump for the time/effort put into it plus the great info.


I hope you know his post was a copy and paste
Link Posted: 7/31/2008 1:31:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By target4fun:
I am very impressed with your post and would like to thank you for the time you put into it. I am curious what your handload data is for the 75 grain and 55 grain loads. Powder?

Thanks again for your hard work in this.



Start with virgin Lake City brass.



Prime with Federal Gold Medal primers.



Charge with one of those "Finnish" powders. A muzzle velocity of around 2650 fps (plus or minus 50 fps) from a 20" barrel seems to be the sweet spot for accuracy from my Colt barrels.



Seat a Hornady 75 grain BTHP bullet to 2.250" O.A.L.





Repeat as needed.



Link Posted: 8/2/2008 1:48:00 AM EST
Is $610 per 1k for BH red box 75gr match a good price?
Link Posted: 9/20/2008 11:28:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By vicious_cb:
Is $610 per 1k for BH red box 75gr match a good price?


G-rant is selling blue Box for $599.00. I'd say it is a good price.
Link Posted: 10/10/2009 9:28:00 AM EST
great thread, awesome posts!
Link Posted: 11/8/2009 7:09:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By vicious_cb:
Originally Posted By Specter1975:
Theoretically speaking if a person wanted to stockpile a lot of high quality 75 grain loads for SHTF scenarios and/or ammunition shortages would the Hornady 75 grain match be just as effective as TAP?

From what I am reading and seeing here it sure looks like it. I have only one local source for TAP and they sell it as quickly as they get it in. The match stuff on the other hand I can get any where and I think its a shade cheaper too.




Pretty much anything loading the T1 or T1c bullet will have similar performance to the TAP loads


This means, I think, "YES - guy the Hornady 75 grain match - same as TAP."
Link Posted: 11/8/2009 8:38:18 PM EST
Molon, is there a place where all of your testing/info is located online.
Or could we get links to all of it or have them ALL tacked.
It's a tremendous resource.
And many thanks!
Link Posted: 11/9/2009 4:57:52 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/9/2009 5:06:37 AM EST
Love it!! Damn fine work Sir!
Link Posted: 11/9/2009 5:09:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By ecgRN:
Holy Mother of all TAP posts...

Out-fricken-standing!!!!!!


amen.
Link Posted: 11/9/2009 5:46:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/9/2009 7:30:58 AM EST
Nice comparison. I saved some money this weekend by buying the match version instead of the TAP. Exactly what I wanted to know before I spent some money.
Link Posted: 11/9/2009 11:55:22 AM EST
I picked up a box of the 75gr BTHP bullets this weekend to start making up my own match/poor man's TAP loads. Gonna kill two birds with one stone!
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