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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 8/31/2004 12:31:55 PM EST
I’m looking into getting 2 or 3 high-end AR15’s but I cannot decide which is better. I’m looking for the overall best manufacturer, so considering durability, accuracy, workmanship, ect… which is better?

I searched for a thread covering this but could not find one – so if its been covered then I apologize in advance.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:04:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 1:04:55 PM EST by M4Guru]
Les Baer. Knights aren't as available as Baers, and the Baer is probably the most accurate AR of it's type made today. Knights seem the same as any other AR to me until you get in to the 7.62 realm.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:25:25 PM EST
Knights Armament. They are actually a good value if you add in the RAS and the other extras included.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:51:51 PM EST
Both will effectively drain your wallet quick enough for ya.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 2:34:20 PM EST
Knight's Armament.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 2:46:33 PM EST
every test i've seen on lb's had them shooting WAY better than moa.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 6:22:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 6:23:45 PM EST by AC_Doctor]
Knight's SR-15 Match in A4 configuration....


Knight's SR-15 Match in SPR configuration.... shoots .5 MOA 5 shot groups at 100 yards :)
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 6:29:16 PM EST
Do you want accuracy or reliability? Knights is designed for war, LB is designed for the range.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:54:01 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 4:57:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By Killbot:
I’m looking for the overall best manufacturer, so considering durability, accuracy, workmanship, ect… which is better?


Colt.

Any Questions?
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:53:14 AM EST
I just got a thunder ranch from baer- and i dont see how you could have a better made rifle- it is just awesome- came with a target from when they shot it at their range and it has 2 groups of 5 shots- both make one hole .at 100 yards. the thing is truley beautiful.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:33:10 AM EST
the bottom one looks more like a sam r
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:54:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By Killbot:
I’m looking for the overall best manufacturer, so considering durability, accuracy, workmanship, ect… which is better?


Colt.

Any Questions?



[Eddie Murphy as Richard Simmons] I'm a pony, I'm a pony [/Eddie Murphy as Richard Simmons]


Just messing.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 12:59:21 PM EST
I have personal experience with the Knights SR-15 match. It DOES NOT come with any accuracy guarantee, check the Knights website. I had 2 of them (one to replace the other due to accuracy issues, dealer did the swap for me), and NEITHER one shot consistent, or under 1". They were tested with several loads, by myself and the dealer. If you want accuracy, steer clear of the Knights.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 1:27:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2004 1:29:30 PM EST by M4Guru]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Do you want accuracy or reliability? Knights is designed for war, LB is designed for the range.



Tell Pat Rogers that. He shoots a Baer AR. I've never seen either in a war unless it was an SR-25 variant. KAC M4's are the same as a Colt or Bushy or (insert brand here) M4 with a RAS on it.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 1:47:00 PM EST
Knights hands down.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 4:05:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By M4Guru:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Do you want accuracy or reliability? Knights is designed for war, LB is designed for the range.



Tell Pat Rogers that. He shoots a Baer AR. I've never seen either in a war unless it was an SR-25 variant. KAC M4's are the same as a Colt or Bushy or (insert brand here) M4 with a RAS on it.



I am surprised to hear that he went with LB. FWIW, their stuff seems heavy and awkward (never had a chance to handle it in person though) while the KAC stuff is the militaries choice. I like all my KAC stuff, except the 300m sight, and I use chrome lined barrels exclusively.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 5:08:53 PM EST
Knights if you can find one.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:34:43 PM EST
For the cost of either you could build a custom that would rival both.

That's what I would do.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:35:41 PM EST
If you should ever need to use customer service which company is going to be the easiest to deal with?
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 8:33:04 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 1:35:22 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 3:02:18 AM EST
listen to denny.

LB, KAC, and Wilson are a rip off as far as im concerned. ive shot them all and none of them will outperform my franken M4 made of carefully chosen top grade components. lovingly hand assembled by me.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:29:02 AM EST
I own a les baer thunder ranch carbine.I am so happy for all the expert advice.I can't wait to sell it and build a better rifle.You people are so smart!!!
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:47:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By bridgeqwest:
I own a les baer thunder ranch carbine.I am so happy for all the expert advice.I can't wait to sell it and build a better rifle.You people are so smart!!!



Resale isn't going to get you anything, what exactly were you looking for when you bought your LBTR carbine? Aside from feeling the need for a "name", I just don't see the point. Why not let us know how much you paid, and we will let you know what you could have gotten for that color of money......
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:48:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 10:49:51 AM EST by QuietShootr]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Do you want accuracy or reliability? Knights is designed for war, LB is designed for the range.



Egggs-actly.

Edit: I sure didn't see Pat with any Les Baer guns last month. It was all LMT or Colt.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 11:09:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 11:20:23 AM EST by bridgeqwest]
I was joking.Say what you will about les baer rifles.I would put this rifle against any brand of ar carbine on the market.As for resale.Say you know,but you don't.I would not trade my thunder ranch carbine for any other.So shoot me.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 11:22:46 AM EST
And what would be your criteria you would use to measure your rifle against other's?? Accuracy? Mean rounds Between failure? Reliability?
My Personnel opinion. All those High priced AR's are just that..High priced. I would never spent that kind of money on an AR. Did it make you a better shot?? most likely not. For the Majority of shooters on this Forum a mediocre to good AR will shoot better then the guy or gal behind the trigger. Hey if ya got the expedable cash and you want the name. go for it. I would rather buy a good Colt of Bushy and spent he money on ammo and training.
I got a Bushy that's 10 years Old. got about 6K thru it and will group 1MOA or less. it's reliable and goes bang every time a squeeze the trigger.

How is LB or KAC gonna Improve on that for twice the price??

I think people who would spend $90K on a Hummer fit into that same category. got more cash then they know what to do with and just spend $90K on a vehicle that will be worth Jack in 10 years with 75K miles on it That will never see any hard use. And they could have bought a couple of full size Ford's or Chevy's and had just as good a vehicle.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 12:15:07 PM EST

My Personnel opinion. All those High priced AR's are just that..High priced. I would never spent that kind of money on an AR.


It's all relative. After all, to some, Bushy is a "high priced" AR. :)
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 12:38:54 PM EST
Knights Armament!
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 12:45:30 PM EST
$300 +/- trigger - check.
$300 +/- rail - check.
Krieger barrel ($550?) - check.
$150 600 meter flip up rear sight - check.
$150 rail mounted front sight - check.
$60-$90 low profile gas block - check.
1 MOA quarantee in a battle proven design - check.
Quality manufacture - check.

That adds up to around $1550, without pricing the bolt, carrier, upper and lower receivers, and lower parts kit, and assembly charges. With a street price of around $1500-$1650, the Knights rifles aren't that outrageously priced if one considers what one gets. The KAC two-stage trigger may be a little high, perhaps over priced even, but that ain't much of an arguement since it's widely considered to be the nicest trigger on the market. Denny, how much for a rifle with the above listed parts, plus an LMT upper and lower, CMT lower parts kit minus trigger, plain jane A2 stock and Young Manufacturing bolt and carrier? I'm not trying to be a dick here, because I consider you to be an awesome guy, I just really want to know, so I can maybe buy one in the future!
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 1:53:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 2:01:33 PM EST by pcurtis]

Originally Posted By bridgeqwest:
I was joking.Say what you will about les baer rifles.I would put this rifle against any brand of ar carbine on the market.As for resale.Say you know,but you don't.I would not trade my thunder ranch carbine for any other.So shoot me.



I have a MSTN built 5.56 & 6.8SPC upper, both have shot at 0.5MOA @ 100m. This was with standard Colt and BM FCG. I have since put a KAC trigger in the BM and will be testing next weekend. Careful what you are betting on. Both of mine run 100% and are accurate to boot.

Edited for spelling &

Reminds me of when I was 19, will my '66 Mustang Pony car take the latest GM equivalent. We ran title for title and I never lost then. It smoke any street legal 327 period.

Again edited: Sorry Wes, I know you were a 327 fan back then.
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