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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 3/20/2006 4:52:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 4:39:05 AM EST by brianksain]
Thinking of building a work gun using a Les Baer upper/lower (almost an oxymoron ... I know).

Need some feedback from the think tank.

I've had a rack full of Colts and RRAs over the years. Great rifles.

PD has a bunch of crappy DPMS (Told them to buy Colt or Bushy) ... and I drive 'em like I stole 'em. Their guns and their ammo and I call it work ... What a life huh?

And I have seen the "Pretty is as pretty does" wars here often enough so I get it.

I just like 'em pretty with as little slop between the upper/lower as possible.

Being LE and an FFL I may be able to see a little bit of relief on the cost. Retail on a matched upper/lower is $342.00 according to the site. Hopefully I can beat that but have not checked.

I have a Mike Rock, screamer, .2235, 1/7, cut rifled, barrel blank just sitting here, an Ops Inc. 15th Model CQB can on the way, SOPMOD stock, PRI fore end, Gas buster, and a pair of Troy BUIS ... that really need a new home (within MY home ... ya savages).

But ... I want it as absolutely reliable as possible and still accurate.

When I say reliable ... I mean a "good Colt" reliable.

Basically as "quality a compromise" as I can get on both ends of the spectrum.

Other than the tight upper/lower ... the rest is wide open.

You guys got any suggestions? ... 'cause I am usually a bolt gun guy.

MSTN, Denny's, Bravo, ADCO ... all way knowledgeable guys I read/hear. Their input here is certainly welcome and encouraged if someone wants to invite them to comment on the thread. May help me avoid a pitfall.

I was thinking about chambering her in 5.56, M4 ramps, 16.5 bbl, Standard trigger ... as she will be a high end working girl.

Gonna need someone savvy to handle the barrel work for the OPS collar / can. Barrel was the first off the lathe. Can't afford a mis-step there.

Have already spoken with Wes on the build some.

Just figured I'd get the ARF.com Think Tank working on my behalf.

Muchas gracias caballeros,

Link Posted: 3/20/2006 5:42:53 PM EST
No personal experience, but the only bad thing that I have heard IS cost.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 7:04:55 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 8:10:09 PM EST
I've seen one shoot and it was amazing. Very experienced shooter but he was dropping ground squirrels from 200 to 350 almost every shot. He trains the guys that do it for a living but he wouldn't buy junk either.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 2:04:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 2:11:09 AM EST by glock24]
Dropping ground squirrels for a living? Where does one apply for that job?

Just kidding, but seriously the Les Baer receiver sets I've seen exhibit very high quality tolerances. Just like his 1911s, he spends the extra time to machine his stuff to tiny, tiny tolerances.

That said, I'm not sure if it's worth the money or even how a tight receiver set improves inherent accuracy.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 4:27:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 4:31:10 AM EST by brianksain]
Roger that fellas.

Appreciate the feedback.

Gonna change the name of this thread to High End Working Girl and see if I can scare up some traffic ...


Link Posted: 3/21/2006 7:52:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 7:53:35 AM EST by comp1911]
I don't know about Baer but the two Denny's GTS (CMT) lowers with CMT uppers I built had no slop and the takedown pins still come out by hand.

As far as the rest goes, I'm no expert but I can make some reccomendations.

LPK - CMT as far as standard parts go. I'm not one for fancy 2 stage triggers. I do like the KNS pins though. Just a neat litte piece.
BCG - CMT, Colt or Young/Les Baer if you want to spend the $$$

Sounds like you have the barrel figured as well as BUIS's. I like LaRue rails myself. I also use their SPR mount.

I use Vltor stocks myself, I don't think the extra money for a SOPMOD is worth it, plus I like the looks of the Vltor over the SOPMOD anyway.

Anywho, I'm sure MSTN, Denny and the like can hook you up with whatever you decide.

Good luck!
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 8:17:25 AM EST
Thanks pal. Wes told me the Baer does not have M4 cuts ... that is an issue for me.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 8:18:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 8:22:18 AM EST by Gimme_A_Carbine]
Sounds like a great build in the works. I've never been sure whether the LB receivers were worth it...you could always let us know! Sounds like an awesome array of parts going together as it is.

What profile are you doing the barrel in? SPRish or Gov't. That's what I would chose from at least.

I'm guessing OPS INC break-don't know to much about that can, but that break is required correct?

I would probably go with the Vltor too, or maybe actually hold out for the two new Magpul designs to be released.

I would use the NEW Young Mfg BCG...looks like the hottness, and the guys at MSTN wrote a neat threat about it once.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 8:29:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 8:32:02 AM EST by brianksain]
Want mine to look like the 6.8 SPC Wes built for Phil Seeberger. (See EE thread on Uppers).

Have a new SOPMOD and a new Veltor ... kinda dig the SOPMOD.

Want the look, feel and accuracy of the SPR/SPC ... with the handling of an M4 ... in case I have to jump in a stack with the entry monkeys.

Barrel contour is being discussed as I type this ...

Thanks for the replies gents,


Link Posted: 3/25/2006 12:22:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 8:56:20 PM EST
Will LB even sell a matched stripped upper/lower?
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:06:50 AM EST
Brian, send it to George and tell him you want it tuned like he does the AR10s. He does the bolt gun magic on all the machined components (like the barrel, chamber, and extension), then does some gas-gun particular tuning (i.e., shimming and bedding the upper to lower).

No kidding, bolt-gun style tuning on a gas gun. It's pretty obvious on an AR10 when the "Before" gun pings like a tuning fork when you dry-fire it, and the "After" has that solid, hand-fit sound.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 6:56:18 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 12:19:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 12:23:18 PM EST by Green0]
Wylde chambers will give you additional velocity (like 50FPS) with 5.56 ammunition.

With a 16.5 I would be thinking midlength or rifle length gas system (The KKF Kurtsgewher style).

My impression has always been that the longer tubes offer greater reliability and reduced maintenance interval. The 16's have occaisional slight reliability issues with rifle length tubes (users have reported one malfunction per 500rds being average, but your extra half inch of barrel, and running a can at times would probably mitigate a lot of that.

The gun will run cleaner with the longer tubes.

Of course depending on the gas block and length required between the collar and the front of the barrel, the kurtsgewher might not be an option, relegating you to a midlength tube
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 12:28:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By brianksain:
Want the look, feel and accuracy of the SPR/SPC ... with the handling of an M4 ...

then go RECCE.


all of the gory details are here:

in short: cut-n-pasted from link above...

barrel: GTS WOA 16" match grade 1:7 stainless midlength, with M4 ramps (thanks denny @ gts)
barrel paint: Lauer Duracoat, desert tan (thanks denny)
gas block: Larue Low Profile (thanks grant @ g&r)
forearm: Larue 9" (thanks grant)
upper: CMT flat top with M4 ramps (thanks denny)
bolt carrier: Young Maunfacturing, National Match (thanks denny)
lower: Bushmaster (thanks chris @ eagle firearms)
trigger: McCormick single stage curved drop-in (thanks wes @ mstn)
stock: Vltor A1 length fixed clubfoot, desert tan (thanks chris)
grip: TangoDown Battlegrip, tan (thanks grant)
rail covers: Magpul ladder type, coyote brown (thanks grant)
scope: Leupold MR/T 3x9 illuminated M1 turret mildot (thanks d&r sports)
scope cover: Scopecoat XP6 (thanks sinclair)
scope mount: Larue SPR (thanks wes)
bipod: Harris BRM-S w/ "clone-loc" (thanks Midway USA and ar15.com)
bipod mount: ARMS #32 (thanks grant)
case: Waller "discreet" Soft Safe (thanks Waller and Son, CT USA)

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:06:09 AM EST
I believe that ADCO or AR-15 barrels.com will build you a great rifle at less cost than LB. LB is great stuff, but really over-priced IMHO. Get a set of RRA recievers if you want a tight fit--they are beautifully machined to very close tolerances and at significantly less cost than LB.

Or. . . .spend a bunch of $$$ on an LB.
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