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Posted: 12/21/2002 8:46:25 PM EDT
I've heard it all. Gear Queer, Whiz Bang Items, Accessory Junkie, Bling Bling, whatever. You know, there are extremists on both ends and I don't really think either are healthy. There are those who disdain almost any accessory to a rifle, and poke fun of those of us who ad any at all. Even if it is something simple, like a new grip. Then there are those who add needless accessories. There was a guy in one recent post who said he added and accu-wedge to every rifle if it needed it or not? What's the deal with that?

Anyhow... for the most part, us "gear queers" are mostly folks who think and try hard to make a great rifle faster to use, more accurate, more useful in a wide variety of circumstances and more comfortable. There is nothing wrong with a stock AR15. Nothing at all. It is truly a thing of beauty. However, like anything, it has limitations. A lot of the gear, and in fact the best of it, actually reduces or eliminates some of these limitations.

People see my rifles and ask me how much I have tied up in them. Sometimes they almost choke when they hear the answer. You know what? At times I don't like to think about it much myself. But what kills me is this. The same guy who is thinking I am a maniac for having thousands of dollars in one rifle has a safe/closet/room full of guns that he paid many, many times more money for. There's not a thing wrong with having a lot of guns. Heck, I would like to have a lot of guns too. However I would rather have one rifle that does more, better, faster, at longer ranges than many guns that do the same thing.

Think of it like this. I shoot against people all the time in the Florida Defensive Carbine Club. We set up little obstacle courses and reactive type fast paced shooting drills. At the end, we pair shooters up with others who had similar times for a head to head shoot out. You always hear people saying, "no wonder you won, you have a scope", or this or that. Some people feel like we should create different categories for those using optics and those who use iron sights. I am against this. Here's why;

First, I have to say our little competitions are for fun only. They are free and there is nothing at all to win or lose. If there were money or prizes involved, I may think about it differently. However, because it is all just for fun, I say you shoot what you got and so does everyone else. Isn't that what it would be like in real life? Now, I am not saying these little "for fun" competitions are like real life combat. I know they are not. However, what are you going to do if you do happen to come face to face with a guy equipped with a souped up AR and all you have is your standard AR?

Well, first of all, I realize that what you have in your heart and in your head will go much further in deciding who comes out on top than the rifle in your hands. But suppose each of you is just as determined as the other? Suppose you are pretty equal in your ability to shoot the gun. Suppose it is night out. All things being equal with the exception of your rifles... You have to use slower iron sights which, by the way, you cant see well to begin with, if you can see them at all. Without a light, you cant see him very well, if at all, and even if you can make something out... is it a target or a friendly? If it is a hostile, does he have a deadly weapon? Are you justified in shooting? The guy with the light will not only see you, but will probably blind you at least momentarily. In doing so, he will see your rifle. Using a dot optic, he wont have to search for his front sight at all, nor will he have to align it with the rear sight. Gear Queer or not, he will have an easier time finishing you off because of all the bling bling on his rifle.

Yeah, his rifle cost maybe $3000, but many of you have way more that invested in your collection. The difference is the money Gear Queer invested in his one rifle is being utilized and helping him finish you off when all your investment is doing is sitting at home, unused, making nice items in your will for your loved ones.

I realize a lot of this is generalization, and again, I haven't a thing against the "Plane Jane" crew. But I think much of the failure to understand why people load up their rifles with all the whiz bang toys is because they have a different view of the role their rifle plays. I think the real Gear Queers are just trying to make a good thing better. And I think it is working. Richard Fitzpatrick of Magpul Industries said something that addressed this very will in an old post about his upcoming Modular Stock System (MSS). Which by the way will be the latest crown jewel on many a gear queers gun. He said;

"However, because of this testing to see what actually worked, my gear was lighter, tougher, and more versatile than most anyone else. Superior gear will never make up for lack of training or attitude, but it is also something that shouldn’t be ignored."


The flip side of the coin is that not all gadgets are useful. There are a good many people out there who take advantage of the gear queer in us. Marketing completely useless or hardly functional equipment. And those of us who don't think critically about our purchases and add ons buy it up and mount it on the rifle.

In closing... there are extremists on both sides. And to the gear queers on the board, I would submit to you that not every gadget is useful and some if it in fact is quite useless. Further, some of it might even be detrimental to you and your rifle. To those of you who shun us, I would submit to you that not all accessories are useless and a good many of them not only improve the rifle in general, but can improve your ability to utilize it in different settings in specific. The failure of either side to recognize these fundamental truths is simply a failure for each to think past the blatantly obvious.
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 9:05:24 PM EDT

Neil, let me first say that I am not a gear queer. Secondly, I think your rifle is cool as shit and if you want to deck it out with all the "bling bling" known to mankind then go right ahead.

In closing I would like to add that if TSHTF, I hope you are on my team. Since we are friends and shoot together regularly, I know you would be.


Link Posted: 12/21/2002 9:09:51 PM EDT
Anyone got that picture of Neil's rifle that was posted here some months back? I think it had a swiss army knife on the bayo lug. [:D]

Link Posted: 12/22/2002 1:04:27 AM EDT
Uh.........who's rifle or carbine are we talking about? [b]Yours?[/b]
Who's money goes to buy all these add-ons? [b]YOURS?[/b]
Who's the only one who has to like it?

Link Posted: 12/22/2002 1:23:41 AM EDT
My name is Jason and I too am a gear type guy (queer, I guess)

Anyway, Neil your gear is the shit! your purple Bushy has all the best gear on it! I had to go sort of cheapy on my purple bushy, ( substitute aimpoint for acog, M4 handguards for SIR, nothing for Surefire) but it still has decent gear!

Let me do a gearestimate on your Bushmaster,
Preban Bushmaster lower                  $1200
6 Pos ribbed stock                         100
ARMS SIR M                                 400
ACOG (cant remember which one so guess)    750
Surefire setup                             400
Bushy m4 14.5" upper W/ phantom            550
ARMS #40                                   100
So a conservative $3500

VERY NICE! money well spent! From a fellow addict,  BUT

If we were both alchohilics I would congratulate you for slamming a whole bottle of bourbon!
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 1:29:03 AM EDT
Hi, My name is Neil, and I am a gear queer.
View Quote

Everyone in unison: "Hello, Neil."  [:D]

We had pretty much the same discussion at work a few nights ago & I offered many of the points you made (along w/ a few additional analogies) to justify my passion for ARs & everything that can be had to supplement an already formidable weapon.  I'm very practical in most of my investments & feel there isn't a better all-around rifle to be had.  Period.  While some of the other guys are proud of their arrayed collections of different weapons, I'm perfectly content to just have another AR, just dressed up a bit differently than the others.

I can't recall who said it, but one of my favorite quotes is "Beware the man w/ only one gun, for he surely knows how to use it."  (Or something like that.)
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 4:27:04 AM EDT
While I like my rifles to be very low drag, it has largly been in part to $$. Never really had the $$ to deck out an AR so I always had to learn to be as effective as possible with what I had. In doing that, I really learned to love a low drag gun. That being said, If I had the $$, I would probably single handedly keep 3/4 of the aftermarket AR accessory manufacturors out there in business. [shock]
A modestly equiped AR is one of the most formidable weapons around in my opinion. Personally, I never thought of one set up like Neils to really be all that decked out. It has to have sight's and a forearm of some kind, so the SIR and the ARMS really arent anything added on to me. Just a different variation from stock. The only thing added on, would be the surefire, and the Acog. Both are simple effective additions.
Just my $.02, but hey, what do I know.
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 5:08:35 AM EDT
You left out the intimidation factor. When face to face in a shootout with a BG with a stock AR, he's liable to drop his crap and run once he see's that high tech space age remote control drill. Not to mention you're such a small target yourself that you almost could hide behind your AR.[:D]Seriously though, the folks that shoot long range with an AR, their guns don't hardly resemble an AR at all. Custom milled receivers, custom tunable stocks, etc. I think the purists that shun bling bling are really just poor & jealous. They thought they were top rung when they got the AR, now they find out they have to accessorize it.[:(] Anyway, I think it's great when someone else can buy all the cool stuff, sort thru it all, figure out what is junk & doesn't work, then tell us so we don't have to go through all of that. I guess that technically makes you an AR15 Accessory Consultant.[}:D]
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 5:17:15 AM EDT
I guess I would like to say that I am not a "gear queer" but that would be only partly true. I am someone, who if the choice is between more gear or more guns, I am very likely to go with more guns. But something I do rely on is the "gear queers" AR15.com is full of them and thank god! Since finding AR15.com the "Gear Queers" are like having my on private R&D department. (most recently feedback recieved from my post on nightvision kept me from making a mistake) So from my stand point GO GEAR QUEERS!!! and tell me all about it.
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 6:22:46 AM EDT
Neil, your scaring me.
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 6:46:40 AM EDT
[b]At least you're not a MAG FAG![/b]
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 1:04:05 PM EDT
You left out the intimidation factor. When face to face in a shootout with a BG with a stock AR, he's liable to drop his crap and run once he see's that high tech space age remote control drill. Not to mention you're such a small target yourself that you almost could hide behind your AR.[:D]Seriously though, the folks that shoot long range with an AR, their guns don't hardly resemble an AR at all. Custom milled receivers, custom tunable stocks, etc. I think the purists that shun bling bling are really just poor & jealous. They thought they were top rung when they got the AR, now they find out they have to accessorize it.[:(] Anyway, I think it's great when someone else can buy all the cool stuff, sort thru it all, figure out what is junk & doesn't work, then tell us so we don't have to go through all of that. I guess that technically makes you an AR15 Accessory Consultant.[}:D]
View Quote

and, like rhgunnut said, this place is a great R&D dept. [;)]
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 1:07:58 PM EDT
What,is all your gear pink?
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 1:24:33 PM EDT
Zardoz, agreed, it is my rifle, I paid for it, I shoot it, only I have to like it. However, I fear that there are a lot of people with gear-a-phobia. Or, an irrational fear of gear. I'm all about creating bridges where there were gaps and bringing people together. Sound queer huh? Haha.

Mahabali, you are in the neighborhood of the ballpark, but not quite in the actual ballpark yet. My ACOG is one of the most expensive ones they sell, so it is more than you quoted. I have a Vortex not a Phantom (actually I have both, but the gun you are reffering to is the Vortex). You forget the JP single stage trigger (Actually I would preffer the Accuracy Speaks and will get one some time) and then the little extra's here and their like the Bungee sling, Houge Grip, Gapper, Filter for the Surefire, etc. In additon, as soon as Magpul sends me their new MSS stock I have sent my CC number for, thats going to add another $250 or so to the overall price. And thats just my favorite AR. Like I said, sometimes I dont like to think about it either.

Frank, dont worry about me, I was born this way... Hahahahaha!

Markm, well, dont get me started on mags. I dont have nearly as many as some people (uh-hum... Troy!) but I have a lot more than others. And wouldnt you know it, I have a fascination for those somewhat rare and expensive teflon coated LaBelle mags too. Whenever I see them for sale at a reasonable price, I buy them. I certainly dont need anymore, but like the thread indicates... its a sickness. Mag Fags/Gear Queers need more.

Akethan, well, actually, the fiber optic on top of my ACOG is pink.
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 1:35:21 PM EDT
I think that there are two things to look at.  You have a rifle for situations you know are coming and another for imediate action.  I have a preban and a lot of parts that when assembled will be eqivalent though slightly different than Neil's decked out gun.  However thats not the gun I would want for a trunk gun either.  Have you ever taken a scoped rifle from a cold airconditioned cvar or room and stepped out into a hot and humid night?  Its instant fogging and the rifle is useless.  If I could have a rifle that I could check to make sure all the do dads worked and was the same temp as the ambiant air before going into harms way I would go with the swiss army knife all the way.

My father left me about 40 guns when he died.  I will turn that into about 8 and be happy I have the best firearm in each catagory.  Why do I need more guns than that?
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 1:39:41 PM EDT
All of my rifles are plain-Janes. The most non-issue gun I own is an M1A with a laminated stock. That's only because it came that way. I've got an issue walnut stock to slip it into.

That being said, I'm looking into tricking out a flat-top carbine. I've gone through hundreds of posts on SIR/RAS/RASII/ACOG/Aimpoint/EOtech/etc. The list goes on for days, confusing as hell. Your input in the posts I've read has been helpful, you seem to have tried about every combo out there. Thanks, that'll save me money in the long run. Anyone that can wade through all of those products and come up with a working combo that looks like the pictures you've posted deserves a better title than gear-queer.

If I can ever figure out what I want, I'll be up there with ya.
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 1:46:43 PM EDT
Neil, no need to justify any of your equipment, it is all have purpose and it is not flashy gidgets.  the M4 you build is something any military spec op guy would use and nothing more.  excellent weapons, and excellent choices.

You and I are something alike seperated by 3000 miles. [:)]
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 5:46:39 PM EDT

Do you know what a REAL MAN puts on his rifle?

Answer:  Whatever the hell he wants.  And I mean it.

Nobody mocked me for brining my Enfield and using it in the carbine class at the last meet.  They might have thought I was a few fries short of a happy meal, but they only showed genuine curiousity about my rifle.

I brought it because I wanted to see how I could do with it and DIDN'T FEAR JUDGEMENT from the group.  The only way I knew that was because of how I was treated the first time that I showed up and actually won the shootoff and everyone clapped.  That round of applause by my peers was one of the most rewarding moments in my adult life.  No kidding.

Anyway, pal.  Put whatever you want on your rifle.  Hell, duct tape a bottle opener to the barrel and run through a class just for laughs.  Who cares?  I find that the best way to make believers out of skeptics is to demonstrate the item and let them try it out.

Anyway, I just want to say thanks for investing the time to research and the money to test all of the gadgets.  If I ever want to add something to my rifle you will be my first stop for advice.  Others would be wise to take the same approach.

Take care and happy holidays!  I will see you Sunday morning.

-White Horse

Link Posted: 12/22/2002 6:35:37 PM EDT
Gear Queer Pride!

Link Posted: 12/22/2002 6:39:14 PM EDT
[b]At least you're not a MAG FAG![/b]
View Quote

and guilty.[V]
got more xmas cards from firearms parts/ acessories suppliers than family this year. i am a one man t&e center.

what are you if you spend whatever dough you have left on training?[:\]
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 10:25:15 PM EDT
Hell. Pretty simple. If it has the potential
to make the weapon more versatile and functional,
I'm all for it.

MINIMUM on all my defensive firearms
has to be at LEAST a Surefire Weapons mounted light. On my pistols, Trijicon Tritium sights or a weapons light and that IS my line in the sand.

I'm not gonna get into the rest of the Weapons enhancing gear I have.
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 10:30:18 PM EDT
Instead a Gear queer, how about gear whore.  I rather be a whore then a queer.
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 10:36:22 PM EDT
Instead a Gear queer, how about gear whore.  I rather be a whore then a queer.
View Quote

How about a  Gadget Addict?,
I'd rather be an addict then a whore or a queer.
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 3:38:32 AM EDT
No no no. The term is "gear queer" cuz we've gone "queer" for "the gear", not other boys, just the do-dads and whats-its. Now if you've "geared out" more than one firearm, including pistols, which I confess I have done, than you are a "bling queen".
Mutht learn to accethethorithe girlth!
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 3:07:50 PM EDT
I think it just means we're all really happy about gear! [:D]
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 3:34:15 PM EDT
Mutht learn to accethethorithe girlth!
View Quote

 My girlfriend has got a flat-top, lo-profile textured grips, precision fit, and a single-stage trigger with an extremely light let-off.. Unfortunately it's her father that has the gun.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 10:16:30 AM EDT
The following was written in the sprit of fun and comedy.  


Most of my accessories end up costing more than the orginal price of the weapon.  Scopes, rings, slings, carry cases, accurizing components, springs and things.

Each month I have to throw away dozens of catologs that I have gotten new ones for.

I evaluate the accessory over a period of time and if I feel it really doesn't do it's job I will sell or trade it.

I'm thinking about sponsering a local chapter of Accessory Addicts Anonamous.  I find myself going to all the local Gun Shops and Gun Shows. Even when I go to Wally World with the wife I end up in the hunting/sporting goods department.

I've read so many gun magazines I can tell you what writer is selling the same article to different magazines.

When I see a gun on TV or on a video, even for just a milisecond, I tell everyone the manufacture, caliber, country of orgin and if it's any good or not.  

When I go on the internet I end up passing the porn and go through four or five gun related sites.  

I need help.  I have to hold my Rem 700P in an AICS stock w/ a Lupy tactical scope and rub it so I don't go into the DT's.

But........I'll be alright. {;-)

Link Posted: 12/24/2002 11:11:54 PM EDT
I'd be a gear queer if I could afford it :P
Link Posted: 12/25/2002 8:48:17 AM EDT

I have the same problem with calling out the names of guns in movies and buying crap to pu on my guns that exceeds the price of the gun itself.  I am in a bad financial position so I have started selling off most of my guns I dont shoot so I can buy more accessories.

Is that the AICS with the folding stock or the fixed one?  Did it help your accuracy any?  Tell me about that rifle I am falling into the trap of wanting to build up one of my Remington 700s and putting that stock on it.
Link Posted: 12/25/2002 9:31:12 AM EDT

I really like the AISC stock.  It's the nonfolding stock, they call it the 1.5.  It has the adjustable cheek piece.  I'm former military and not only does it shoot well it also looks "COOL"!

I had a Rem 700P with the standard HS Precision stock that came with it.  At first I was going to put a McMillan A4 stock on it but I started running some money numbers on the whole set up.

The McMillan stock with all the bells and whistles was going to cost me $475.00.  Then I would have to pay someone $150.00 to have it pillar bedded.  

For the same amount I bought the AICS and didn't have to wait for four months to get McMillan to have the stock made for me or another month waiting for the gunsmith to get around bedding the action for me.

The AICS weights alot but I am only going to use it for precision rifle shooting and compitition from bench or prone.  It's built like a tank, and as you already know, with the aluminum chasis. The stock fits me like a glove.  I love the butt hook, it really helps me stabilize the rifle.

I've already have taken my first generation FN Special Police Rifle, took off the HS stock and put a McMillan A2 stock on it.  From the time I bought the rifle, got the stock from McMillan and it back from the gunsmith it was over six months.  

I had the AICS stock within 5 days of ordering it and just bolted the rifled action into the stock (65 inch pounds), shot 10 rounds, re-touqued the actions screws and fired 10 more rounds, re-tourqued and I was good to go.  I got the OD green pannels.  It looks great in my Starlight Case. If you want I'll e-mail you a picture.  Just let me know.

Link Posted: 12/25/2002 4:45:08 PM EDT
My problem is that rifles that work exactly right are no longer interesting since I cannot tinker with them!

My AR is a tack driver thanks to the help I received from the guys and merchants on this forum.  Now, I am not going to do another damn thing to it before I take it to Thunder Ranch UR II in May except shoot the crap out of it.

Now, I am fiddling around with a FAL copy because it will keep me from F___ing with my AR and screwing it up!

God help me!
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 6:56:41 PM EDT
An out-of-the box gun, (most of them), AR, is like a regular Chevy. Still kicks ass, but is just the straight shot car/gun.

Then you have a suped up Chevy. One with power windows, AC, moonroof maybe, big loud exhaust, better intake, louder stereo, etc. You get the idea.

I prefer the suped up Chevy. Though the regular out-of-the "crate" version is still great.

So just like cars, ARs are good with nothing aftermarket on them, and sometimes GREAT with an RAS, Trijicon ACOG, Surefires, and a Beta-C Mag!

I probably didn't make any since there, but who cares. I love my 20" HBAR AR, with nothing on it, but I'm wanting to get another, one with a 14.5" bbl. and all the toys. And don't forget the air freshner on the bayo lug, to keep the smell of gunpowder away!
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:27:14 PM EDT
Wait a second!

Your name is "Neil" and you're a "gear queer"?

Don't tell me your best friend's name is "Bob"!!

Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:42:01 PM EDT
I admit that I put a link to this thread in another topic, but it was absolutely not my intention to bring it back to life. Yikes! Anyhow, pass the gear;


And before anyone asks, no, these arent all mine...
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 8:23:26 PM EDT
I prefer to be callede a "Gadget Freak"
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 9:09:31 PM EDT
This is a queer thread. [shock] [sex]

And, BTT [wave]
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 6:57:36 AM EDT


And before anyone asks, no, these arent all mine...
View Quote

Since we're talking gear, what kinda of light and mount combo is the bottom AR using?  Are those a different set of handguards, or just something that mounts to them? Uhoh ... now I'm turning into a Gear Queer! [;)]
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 7:32:41 AM EDT
I think that is the Millennium Forend System from Surefire.

After reading all this thread, I guess I am a gear queer myself.  I haven't made mag whore yet, but working on it...
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 7:44:16 AM EDT
I cant afford to be a gear queer[:(]
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 7:50:39 AM EDT
I'd like to take this opportunity to personally thank Neil for saving me hundred, or possibly thousands, of dollars.  If you look through the mounts, lights, scopes, etc. forums, he has input on almost any accessory.  I recently completed my bling rifle, and in retrospect, I found that a major number of the decisions I made were based on things that he's mentioned.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 8:28:04 AM EDT
Neil's got it bad, you folks can't see it but on the snazzy adjustable stock on the rifle second from the bottom it has cast into the poly: E.X.P.E.R.I.M.E.N.T.A.L
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 3:42:01 AM EDT
That bottom light is the Surefire M500a, and while it isnt actually mine, it usedto be. I sold it to AEM, thats his rifle. The system replaces your handgaurds all together.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 4:32:25 AM EDT
Neil I don't know anout all this gear queer stuff, but with over 4000 posts I think you may be a cyber sissy.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 4:36:11 AM EDT
My name is Jason and I too am a gear type guy (queer, I guess)

ACOG (cant remember which one so guess)    750
View Quote

You have a scope that cost you over $750, and you don't KNOW tha tthe thing is capable of?! You don't know the EXACT specifications?!?!?

I wish I had $ to burn...

Correction: I wish I had $ to I could buy gear based solely on "what looks cool"
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 7:56:16 AM EDT
I have been shooting a long time, and have seen some shooters do some amazing things with stock guns...things that you had to see to believe... like Bill Blankenship firing a 6in. group offhand at 100yd. on a 50yd. bullseye target, standing, strong hand only, with a 2" Colt Detective Special new, out of the box and WW .38 wadcutters. Yes, I personally saw him do that in front of probably 75 others who saw it too.     [shock]

Can I do that? No. Can you do that? Probably not. And just because a three time National Pistol Champion was able to do it once, does not make the 2" .38 snub into a 100yd. gun either. You may very well be able to shoot better with a stock rifle than I can with a "geared-up" one, but you will almost certainly not perform better than YOU could with the geared-up gun. I don't want the same exact setup as Neil has, but I DO want my rifle set up with the things I want. If someone else does not like it, that's fine too, they are free to do it their way...besides, I really "need" that shit so I can take some of those high stakes prizes and trophys away from those damned waiters who shoot at FDCC!
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 1:03:20 PM EDT
I confess I like buying bolt-ons almost as much as I like shooting.  And it's easier to bolt something on than go to the range.  So my new rule is that I haven't spent an equal amount of ammo, I can't get the new gadget.

Who was it who said the best accessory for a new gun is a case of ammo?
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 8:29:20 PM EDT
FDCC is almost like a gear queers anonymous meeting...
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 8:52:06 PM EDT
except we don't get any help... [%|]

Link Posted: 5/11/2003 9:45:00 PM EDT
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