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Posted: 8/21/2004 7:53:48 PM EST
I have my eye on a PWA but am unsure if it is pre or postban.  I have been advised the PWA is no longer in business did anyone buy them out, any way to check its status?  Contact info would be of great help.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 8:07:00 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 9:38:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By Troy:
The only information available is the range of serial numbers that were manufactured before the ban, but understand that PWA never made complete guns, so there are NO factory preban rifles anyway.  Lowers with serial numbers up to around 32000 *could* have been made into pre-ban AWs, but the owner on 9/13/94 would need to provide you with some way to prove that, since there are no factory configuration records.  Without proof of its configuration on 9/13/94, it's a post-ban.  Of course, the AWB is going to expire on 9/13/2004...


Troy -

I just bought a PWA complete lower from out of state (I'm in CT).   It is beautiful... pristine condition and the seller was fantastic.  The serial # is about 10K below the 32,000 mark.  

What kind of "proof" could I ask of him?  The lower is marked "Commando" and, IIRC, that means it was shipped/supposed to be made with a 10.5'' +5.5'' FS configuration.  

You're post here has me worried... I'm in a perma-ban state...

- BUCC_Guy
Link Posted: 8/22/2004 8:29:44 AM EST
All PWA lowers were marked "Commando".  That has nothing to do with any barrel configuration.  Not sure what you mean by your comment......

"The lower is marked "Commando" and, IIRC, that means it was shipped/supposed to be made with a 10.5'' +5.5'' FS configuration."

As Troy says above, Pac West Arms NEVER, EVER shipped a "kit" with a barrel.  They avoided having to pay the Feds excise tax, or something like that, by not selling barrels.
Link Posted: 8/22/2004 9:24:54 AM EST

This thread walks where angels fear to go.

The issue has been discussed many times.  The short version is:

1)  PWA never made rifles, only lowers.  Hence, there is no factory record of the lower being configured into a preban style rifle.  This was one reason the Colts (which left the factory as a complete rifle) commanded a premium over the PWA recievers.  You could PROVE the rifle was an AW (per 1994 definition).  Unless the previous owner also bought an upper with the specified features and took pictures or signed a notarized statement there is no proof in your case.

2)  There are some who claim since your lower was made prior to 1994 and COULD have been an AW that the burden of proof is on any prosecution that it wasn't.  I side with those who feel otherwise.  Our position is that the grandfather clause allowing pre-1994 AWs to be kept is an exemption from a 100% ban and it is up to you to prove your rifle meets the exemption.

The bottom line is, it is a gray area.  Ask the seller if he has any photos of the rifle as a complete rifle, or any reciepts for an upper he bolted onto it.  Chances are he does not.

I know this doesn't help much, but it should cut through some of the confusion.  Most important is lastly, you should check your states law on the issue as this is all related to the national AW definitions.  Your state may have a different idea of what is legal  or not.

Link Posted: 8/22/2004 11:06:01 AM EST
Thanks guys,

I talked  to the seller and he doesn't have anything for me and he isn't the original owner.

I had no idea that all PWA lowers were marked "Commando"... I thought that was a special run

Regarding the state laws... you betcha I've been keeping up on them (referring to CT AWB) and the small grandfather clause included isn't very specific.

I'm just going to trust in the fact that no one has been screwed from this situation so far.  I'm an easy-going guy... plate shoot here, bowling pin shoot there.  And I have no reason to believe I'm in the wrong anyway!  

- BUCC_Guy
Link Posted: 8/22/2004 12:14:47 PM EST
Before the '94 AWB was passed there were few "post ban" style parts available.  All barrels were threaded but for the bull target barrels.  Nobody ground off the bayonet lugs, why go to the trouble?  So, chances are 99% that IF it was assembled prior to the ban, it was in AW config.

DO NOT pay a premium for this "pre ban".   In three weeks it will be a 10 yr old used rifle.  Pay accordingly.
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