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Posted: 3/7/2011 2:21:57 PM EST
Excitement turns to disappointment when new LBC jammed every 5 or 6 rounds on PRVI Match 69gr .223 ammo (rifle is labeled as .223 not 5.56).
Gun was well lubed with CLP prior and I was using a clean factory Colt magazine that came with it.

So do I need to break this baby in somehow or what else would cause the failure to feed issue? This ammo feeds just fine on my RRA, never had any issues with it until now.





During the failure FTF bullets are pushed inward into the mangled casing.


No question accuracy was excellent with sub-moa groups when it did manage to load though.


insight much appreciated.

Link Posted: 3/7/2011 2:37:29 PM EST
I would send it back to Les Baer since it's not a functioning rifle
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 2:40:39 PM EST
Replace the gas rings?
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 2:43:21 PM EST
Use a different magazine, its a quick cheap test.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 2:44:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By WI57:
Replace the gas rings?


interesting, hadn't thought of that. Is the issue that the bolt is not being pushed far back enough?
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 2:58:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By RotaryJihad:
Use a different magazine, its a quick cheap test.


true, plus I just remembered I replaced the factory follower with a magpul anti-tilt one... that could be the problem right there

thanks!
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 3:00:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By jason934:
Originally Posted By WI57:
Replace the gas rings?


interesting, hadn't thought of that. Is the issue that the bolt is not being pushed far back enough?


That's what I'm thinking because the round is being stripped by the carrier and not the bolt.
Could be the gas block is off a little bit, just enough to prevent it from fully cycling.
Does The bolt lock back on the bolt stop if you just put one round in the magazine?
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 3:06:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By WI57:
Originally Posted By jason934:
Originally Posted By WI57:
Replace the gas rings?


interesting, hadn't thought of that. Is the issue that the bolt is not being pushed far back enough?


That's what I'm thinking because the round is being stripped by the carrier and not the bolt.
Could be the gas block is off a little bit, just enough to prevent it from fully cycling.
Does The bolt lock back on the bolt stop if you just put one round in the magazine?


no, just tried it and it loads 1 round just fine
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 3:07:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By jason934:
Originally Posted By WI57:
/snip

That's what I'm thinking because the round is being stripped by the carrier and not the bolt.
Could be the gas block is off a little bit, just enough to prevent it from fully cycling.
Does The bolt lock back on the bolt stop if you just put one round in the magazine?


no, just tried it and it loads 1 round just fine


Sorry, I wasn't clear...
If you fire it with one round in the magazine does the bolt lock back on the empty magazine?
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 3:09:51 PM EST
GI Gas Issue. Gas block may not be aligned with port in barrel! M4QUADRAIL
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 3:11:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By WI57:
Originally Posted By jason934:
Originally Posted By WI57:
/snip

That's what I'm thinking because the round is being stripped by the carrier and not the bolt.
Could be the gas block is off a little bit, just enough to prevent it from fully cycling.
Does The bolt lock back on the bolt stop if you just put one round in the magazine?


no, just tried it and it loads 1 round just fine


Sorry, I wasn't clear...
If you fire it with one round in the magazine does the bolt lock back on the empty magazine?


oh that, yes, it keeps the bolt open no problem

The mag is a 20 rounder. Are the magpul anti-tilt followers only supposed to go on 30rnd mags? I'll take it to the range again tomorrow and test with a Brownells GI one.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 3:15:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By jason934:
[oh that, yes, it keeps the bolt open no problem

The mag is a 20 rounder. Are the magpul anti-tilt followers only supposed to go on 30rnd mags? I'll take it to the range again tomorrow and test with a Brownells GI one.


I'm not sure about the followers, somebody will be in to answer that I'm sure.
Try different mags, known good mags in other rifles.
If that doesn't work contact LesBaer to arrange a return.
They should be able to find out whats going on and get it fixed up for you.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 3:18:55 PM EST
I would never replace anything in a Colt Magazine. They work just fine as is. Never had an issue with one that was not damaged from abuse in over 21 years of using over a hundred of them.
If a new mag does not work I would send gun back to Les Baer ASAP. I have never owned one of there weapons but have rarely seen them not work and there customer service was always top notch when I ran our old shop back in the day.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 3:27:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By Nichonator:
I would never replace anything in a Colt Magazine. They work just fine as is. Never had an issue with one that was not damaged from abuse in over 21 years of using over a hundred of them.
If a new mag does not work I would send gun back to Les Baer ASAP. I have never owned one of there weapons but have rarely seen them not work and there customer service was always top notch when I ran our old shop back in the day.


I did that because of my FS2000. It will absolutely not cycle with regular followers (see discussions on the FN forum), so I bought a pack of 'em and replaced all my GI mags with anti-tilts; assumed (incorrectly) they would work on all my rifles..

Link Posted: 3/7/2011 3:56:57 PM EST
I can't speak for the Les Baer AR, but I did have a Concept III .45 1911 (guaranted 1.5" groupings at 50 yds). It was so super, super tight! Taking it apart was a bear (no pun intended), and an all day affair. Putting it back together was a bear. Shooting it was a dream, but it really didn't like much ammo. It was really finicky, and it had a lot of feed jams. Luckily, it LOVED my reloads. It really didn't like hollowpoints. Again, even after a couple thousand rounds it was still super TIGHT! I sold that gun to someone that wanted it more than me and broke even for what I paid for it.

As for your gun. I agree with gas issue or mag. The picture of it jammed looks like the bolt is short shucking the ammo and dragging it toward the feed ramp. Check the alignment of the barrel nut, pull the gas tube and make sure it's not cracked, split, or something mysteriously broken. Does it have a gas block that is connected with set screws? Checked to see if it is aligned? Check for leaks? I have read that some people have had some serious issues with these things heating, screws backing out and moving. See if there are detents in the barrel for the gas block to mount. this is a high quality rifle, and I can guarantee they will stand by their product.

Please tell me that you are not using chinese or russian ammo?!? I would do a couple of tests with a new mag and a couple different types of ammo, and I would call them and explain all the tests you have done. If it continues and they have no idea, I would return the gun if it is still doing it. Make sure that you specify all the ammo you were using so they can diagnose the weapon when returned. It may be something that was missed in the manufacturing process, but something does sound a miss here.
Link Posted: 3/7/2011 4:06:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By Herknav90:
I can't speak for the Les Baer AR, but I did have a Concept III .45 1911 (guaranted 1.5" groupings at 50 yds). It was so super, super tight! Taking it apart was a bear (no pun intended), and an all day affair. Putting it back together was a bear. Shooting it was a dream, but it really didn't like much ammo. It was really finicky, and it had a lot of feed jams. Luckily, it LOVED my reloads. It really didn't like hollowpoints. Again, even after a couple thousand rounds it was still super TIGHT! I sold that gun to someone that wanted it more than me and broke even for what I paid for it.

As for your gun. I agree with gas issue or mag. The picture of it jammed looks like the bolt is short shucking the ammo and dragging it toward the feed ramp. Check the alignment of the barrel nut, pull the gas tube and make sure it's not cracked, split, or something mysteriously broken. Does it have a gas block that is connected with set screws? Checked to see if it is aligned? Check for leaks? I have read that some people have had some serious issues with these things heating, screws backing out and moving. See if there are detents in the barrel for the gas block to mount. this is a high quality rifle, and I can guarantee they will stand by their product.

Please tell me that you are not using chinese or russian ammo?!? I would do a couple of tests with a new mag and a couple different types of ammo, and I would call them and explain all the tests you have done. If it continues and they have no idea, I would return the gun if it is still doing it. Make sure that you specify all the ammo you were using so they can diagnose the weapon when returned. It may be something that was missed in the manufacturing process, but something does sound a miss here.


Thanks,it's this stuff here:


Was not cheap, but less than Federal Gold Medal match. I sure hope it's not the ammo cause I bought a whole 1k case of these!

Assuming it's not my own stupid fault, I'm sure LBC will fix whatever the issue is, I actually spoke to Les himself when I bought the rifle, totaly awesome guy, talked my ear of about the process each rifle goes through, the CNCs, how he shoots each one.. yet he found 45mins to talk to a total stranger. Now that's old-school customer service.



Link Posted: 3/10/2011 10:46:17 PM EST
Update: Took gun back to range today and the gun ran 2 full dumps off a regular Pmag without any problems. Inserted the 20rnd Colt mag with mapgul follower and it jammed (failed to feed) as before. Replaced follower with std Colt follower and all 20rnds loaded fine.

So it was the anti-tilt follower. Works great on 30 round Colt mags or Pmags but there seems to be some incompatibility on 20rnd steel mags.

Sorry for wasting everyone's time on this one..
Link Posted: 3/10/2011 11:16:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By jason934:
Update: Took gun back to range today and the gun ran 2 full dumps off a regular Pmag without any problems. Inserted the 20rnd Colt mag with mapgul follower and it jammed (failed to feed) as before. Replaced follower with std Colt follower and all 20rnds loaded fine.

So it was the anti-tilt follower. Works great on 30 round Colt mags or Pmags but there seems to be some incompatibility on 20rnd steel mags.

Sorry for wasting everyone's time on this one..


IMHO? It's not a waste of time. If guys are running magpul followers in 20rd mags and encountering issues? Because of a thread like this, the guys may look at the mags instead of blaming it on the rifle, and sending it back to the company-who may run it with their* mags and not be able to find a problem... infuriating the guy having the issues- who will run it with those same mags and have those same issues, and then complain about it here on the forum.

For all you know, you saved someone trouble shooting headaches, a company CS rep's 20min with an angry customer, and a mar on a company's reputation ya never know
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:01:01 PM EST
Straight body GI 20 rd mags cannot use an anti-tilt follower. The mag depends on the follower tilting to accommodate the cartridge taper.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:54:15 PM EST
Glad to hear everything worked out.
No time wasted here, very happy to hear a positive result from your testing.

Enjoy the rifle!

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 11:42:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By DBR:
Straight body GI 20 rd mags cannot use an anti-tilt follower. The mag depends on the follower tilting to accommodate the cartridge taper.


yep, I found out the hard way
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 12:01:30 AM EST
threads like this is now why ill be taking multiple mags with me tomorrow with my new lightweight build first time break in. also bring a different stock with carbine spring and buffer.

im crossing my fingers the gun will perform with no problems.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 3:17:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By Foxnews_FTW:
Originally Posted By jason934:
Update: Took gun back to range today and the gun ran 2 full dumps off a regular Pmag without any problems. Inserted the 20rnd Colt mag with mapgul follower and it jammed (failed to feed) as before. Replaced follower with std Colt follower and all 20rnds loaded fine.

So it was the anti-tilt follower. Works great on 30 round Colt mags or Pmags but there seems to be some incompatibility on 20rnd steel mags.

Sorry for wasting everyone's time on this one..


IMHO? It's not a waste of time. If guys are running magpul followers in 20rd mags and encountering issues? Because of a thread like this, the guys may look at the mags instead of blaming it on the rifle, and sending it back to the company-who may run it with their* mags and not be able to find a problem... infuriating the guy having the issues- who will run it with those same mags and have those same issues, and then complain about it here on the forum.

For all you know, you saved someone trouble shooting headaches, a company CS rep's 20min with an angry customer, and a mar on a company's reputation ya never know


+1
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 7:03:05 PM EST
Apparently Lester doesn't test fire his machines! I bought two 1911 frames from him, consecutive numbers, and the main spring housing pin holes were off by a country mile. They refused to replace them.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:19:29 PM EST
Dude:

Not a wates of time. Super stuff, and it can help someone else that has the same issues. Good stuff, and I'm glad you are now happy. I was really happy with the 1911 Baer...Just dreaded cleaning that sucker.

Super glad it wasn't the ammo either...1K wasted if it was....I would have bought and schucked it!!!

RobF
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