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Posted: 9/24/2004 3:07:44 PM EDT
[#1]
Check and make sure all the trox screws are indeed tight. I had the similar problem with my first LaRue Tactical mount. The screws seemed tight, but actually were not. I retightened them and its rock solid. Also, if you have the black "hardware" did you degunk them before installing with loctite? I have 2 of their Aimpoint mounts & now a second Tactical and they are all rock solid. |
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Posted: 9/24/2004 3:15:50 PM EDT
[#2]
A friend of mine at work had the same exact problem. Once he ruled out any problems with the mount he finally realized the unit itself was bad. He had to send it back to the factory for repair. Turnaround time was about a month IIRC.
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Posted: 9/24/2004 3:20:40 PM EDT
[#3]
I do have the black hardware... I followed the instuctions for installation, it didnt say anythng about degunking.
I remember installing it, and tigheting the torx screws down tight. If I try to twist the aimpoint in the mount, I cant so I think that is tight enough. One possibility is that I didnt have the throw lever tensioning nut tight enough tho. |
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Posted: 9/24/2004 3:30:10 PM EDT
[#4]
Can you try it with a diffent mount and different rifle?
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Posted: 9/24/2004 3:30:34 PM EDT
[#5]
See this: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=201696 |
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Posted: 9/24/2004 3:46:04 PM EDT
[#6]
JeffersonDarcy,
I had an absolute hell of a time zeroing my ML2 this morning with a coworker. It turns out that I had installed the mount improperly. Degrease the screws and when they've been degreased, degrease them again. My LaRue clamps (the two halves that contact the aimpoint" were shifting back to front, not side to side. My windage was bang-on, but the elevation kept wandering all over the place. Degrease, retighten the bottom screws FIRST then do the top. Jim |
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Posted: 9/24/2004 4:01:10 PM EDT
[#7]
thats gay... sounds like I have to go out and buy some loctite too. Do tehy sell it at home depot?
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Posted: 9/24/2004 4:08:02 PM EDT
[#8]
just checked the torx screws... VERY tight. I dont think they came loose. But still, I will degrease and re-apply the loctite.
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Posted: 9/24/2004 5:16:26 PM EDT
[#9]
Do you have your lever adjusted so its tight enough on your RAS2 hump?
Scott |
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Posted: 9/24/2004 7:51:51 PM EDT
[#10]
I checked that... it was pretty tight, but could use some, so i tightened it... thought maybe that was the problem. but then I just finished cleaning the gun and cycled it a few times, and looked thru the iron sights with the aimpoint on... and the dot had moved. Cycled it a few more times, and checked between every time. Each time it moved, some more than others... MOSTLY elevation wise, very slight if any changes in windage. the only other thing I can think of is the thing with degreasing the torx screws, but again, they seemed tight when I checked. I'm really getting annoyed with this. 
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Posted: 9/24/2004 8:09:47 PM EDT
[#11]
WELL, I figured it out.... I can tilt the aimpoint and rings on the base up and down considerably... it seems one of the screws (the one in the front) worked itself loose because of the grease/loctite issue...
but the one other question I have is: Why is the hole in the base that the screw goes thru so big to allow that much movement? shouldnt it it be a small hole that the screw fits in pretty tightly? hopefully I can get some blue loctite at home depot tomorrow |
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Posted: 9/24/2004 9:17:21 PM EDT
[#12]
so do you recommend the larue mount JD? I was thinking of getting one myself, but i may get the ARMs instead.
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Posted: 9/24/2004 9:17:51 PM EDT
[#13]
btw, pics of what you're talking about?
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Posted: 9/24/2004 9:26:54 PM EDT
[#14]
This is interesting since there are so many people loving the Larue mount. This gives me pause.
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Posted: 9/24/2004 9:34:36 PM EDT
[#15]
I dont know yet. Apparently the screws in the black hardware larue mounts have to be cleaned before applying loctite or they come loose. WHen I fix it, if it works, then larue is fine. |
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Posted: 9/24/2004 9:37:10 PM EDT
[#16]
You've seen pics of my AR on um, that oter site  right?I wouldnt be able to post pics of what I'm taling about, because the movement is so slight that you coundt tell in pics.... but more than enough for the dot to go from the top of the front site post to about the height of the post above it. basically you can rock the rings and aimpoint up and down on the base. |
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Posted: 9/24/2004 9:55:36 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 9/24/2004 11:41:19 PM EDT
[#18]
I just got mine, so I don't have that much experience yet, but if Pat Rogers is of the opinion that this is THE Aimpoint mount (and to stay away from ARMS) I listen. A few tests over at Tactical Forums have shown that LaRue mounts have almost perfect return to zero, after being mounted and dis-mounted. Screws can come loose, but you have to remove the ARMS mount to check if they are tight. Concerning the degrease issue- LaRue realized the problem and immediately informed their dealers. You got to give them credit for that. Now they degrease themselves- as you should do anyway with every new mount. |
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Posted: 9/25/2004 5:45:43 AM EDT
[#19]
another thing to try is make sure that you have the screw that connects your rasII to your flatop very tight... and make sure your barrel nut screws are tight...
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Posted: 9/25/2004 9:56:37 AM EDT
[#20]
Hmm... I knew the LaRue looked like shit, but now it seems that it is also built like shit?
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Posted: 9/25/2004 12:15:25 PM EDT
[#21]
Ok, I took the screws out, cleaned them and the holes with alcohol and reinstalled with loctite. I was not able to get the old loctite off with the alcohol, but I dont think that will be an issue, the grease was the issue.
THe problem was obviously that one of the bottom screws was not tight enough (although I'm still not ruling out anything else being wrong until I get it zeroed... but one of the bottom screws WAS too lose causing vertical movement caused by recoil or anykind of vibration). Its possible that the greas issue caused it to become loose.. it is also possible that I didnt make it tight enough in the first place. I am used to directions saying to tighten but not OVERtighten... so I probably tightened until it felt tight, not until I cant make it any tighter.. This time I tighetend it as much as I could with the allen key style torx thing. so basically if you have a larue mount, remember to clean the screws before installation and tighten as much as possible. |
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Posted: 9/25/2004 12:28:47 PM EDT
[#22]
You will be fine now. The LaRue mounts are some of the best. FYI: LaRue will be degreasing all pieces themselves in the future to avoid this issue. |
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Posted: 9/25/2004 12:30:27 PM EDT
[#23]
LaRue came out a while ago and told everyone to completely degrease the screws and apply locktite. Some people missed it, obviously as that was the problem. Built like shit? Thats a pretty ballsy statement. Follow directions is more like it. In this case, they may be missed which is understandable. But atleast Larue realized there was a "problem" if you will, and took the necessary action to correct it. |
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Posted: 9/25/2004 12:35:52 PM EDT
[#24]
You just proved you have no clue what so ever. |
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Posted: 9/25/2004 12:38:00 PM EDT
[#25]
I think the larue mounts are the best looking ones.... tehy are unobtrusive, nicely shaped and the color matches everything else.
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Posted: 9/25/2004 12:45:01 PM EDT
[#26]
What Lumpy said. Also, its hard to be humble when your Gucci. 
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Posted: 9/25/2004 1:56:48 PM EDT
[#27]
(I wondered how long it would take someone with a hard-on for anything "LaRue" to take offense, guess I got my answer) Relax, it was meant as a light hearted joke (although I do think they look like shit). I thought that the few of us left who didn't suddenly feel the need to throw out everything "ARMS" when LaRue hit the scene would find it amusing. Carry on... |
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Posted: 9/25/2004 2:09:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Guess what? I didnt throw out everything ARMS. And THATS trolling. Thanks. |
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Posted: 9/25/2004 2:21:22 PM EDT
[#29]
Understood, no hard-on , I put function way before beauty. The only ARMs products I have not replaced (most have been due to various issues, some only personal preference) is the throw lever mount for my 2 Surefire M952's on two carbines. This may change in the future, the ARMS throw lever on these are a bitch operate for both adding and removing. My replacement of ARMS stuff has not been restricted to equivalent LaRue products. Although as you can see, I'm from TX, one might consider me bias, no affilation. So you carry on also..  |
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Posted: 9/25/2004 2:36:07 PM EDT
[#30]
I'm a little confused about the whole degrease your screws and loctite them thing. I've never used loctite on torx screws for scope mounting applications. I just torque 'em to 15 inch pounds and, to be honest, I've never had a torx screw come loose. Leupold also states there is no need for loctite with torx screws. I put 300 rounds through my M4 with Larue Aimpoint mount today and nothing came loose. Is there something unique about the application of the torx screws on the Larue mount that makes them more prone to coming loose without loctite? I was thinking it had something to do with the sideways configuration as opposed to the typical top and bottom configuration of most scope rings. Could the sideways configuration cause more vibration on the screws perhaps?
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Posted: 9/25/2004 3:28:46 PM EDT
[#31]
Bradd_D, I have always made it a practice to degrease (or degunk as I stated) all hardware prior to installation. Any grease or oily substance will interfer with Loctite in my experience. Torx vesus any other screw head type (hex or slot) it does not matter. Loctite does not work with "greasy" sufaces. Incorect installation, meaning not tightening the lower "screws" prior to the upper screws is part of the problem. My first LaRue mount did not have the "black" hardware, it was not verifying that the lower (locking screws) were set first was the problem. Again, not reading instructions correctly was the problem. Once, understood, then everything worked as advertized. |
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Posted: 9/25/2004 3:53:34 PM EDT
[#32]
ok... well that DIDNT solve the problem. After setting the screws and letting it sit for about 5 hours so the loctite can set, I just mounted it on the rifle. I then put the rifle on a rest and set the dot to sit right on top of the front sight when looking thru the rear site (small aperture, 4 clicks below 6/3).. I tried to move the aimpoint and it felt solid, and lookin at the dot it did not move either. But then I cycled the action a few times, and it DID move the dot. again, mostly vertically. In other words re setting the screws didnt fix the problem... I'me beginning to think it may be the aimpoint itself
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Posted: 9/25/2004 4:05:55 PM EDT
[#33]
That does happen. I would try the Aimpoint in a diff. mount just to make sure... C4 |
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Posted: 9/25/2004 4:41:41 PM EDT
[#34]
I really dont think its the mount. I just took it off the rifle and it feels rock solid.
I've pretty much isolated it to teh aimpoint and not the mount. its not the rifle, the rifle shoots fine with iron sighte. I really doubt its the RAS II, that feels very solid. As I said, the mount feels secure... and when it was on the rifle, playing with it, trying to move the dot by physically attempting to tilt the aimpoint did not work. Cycling the action DID move it tho, which to me seems like vibration is doing it. Which would make sense since yesterday when I was shooting it, each should would cause signifigant changes in dot position. To me it seems like its the aimpoint itself, I'm not expert and I can't be 100% sure, but thats what I think. I thought these things were supposed to be bulletproof. 
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Posted: 9/25/2004 5:32:16 PM EDT
[#35]
just tried the whole process again for shits and giggles and what I noticed this time is it was just vertical movement, each time I would cycle the action a few times the dot would move up.... so I would adjust the dot to go back down on top of the post and the same thing would happen again.. so I was basically chasing teh dot.
anyway, the movement seems to always be in the same direction, up. I would think if it was anything OTHER than the aimpoint itself it would move in other directions. actually there might have been slight rightward movement, but that might be just because maybe the vertical axis is not 100% up ( I eyeballed it) so I'm pretty confident that its the aimpoint, specifially something with the elevation, and not anything else. I will be calling aimpoint monday to get this sorted out
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Posted: 9/25/2004 5:33:37 PM EDT
[#36]
do you know if the movement of the dot was mostly vertical? specifically going up each time the action was cycled or the weapon was fired? |
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Posted: 9/25/2004 8:31:44 PM EDT
[#37]
JeffersonDarcy:
Please advise what you find out when you contact Aimpoint. I am currently printing a FABULOUS vertical line... but have not yet tried the degrease fix yet.
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Posted: 9/25/2004 9:28:29 PM EDT
[#38]
THE LARUE TACTICAL CCO AIMPOINT MOUNT IS AN SUPERB AIMPOINT MOUNT, AND INSTALLING IT IS A PRACTICAL I.Q. TEST.
HERE ARE THE INSTRUCTIONS: MOUNTING AIMPOINT COMP M2 1. REMOVE RING HALVES FROM BASE (FOUR 8-40 SCREWS) AND REMOVE BATTERY COVER AND BATTERY. 2. REASSEMBLE RING HALVES AND BASE ONTO AIMPOINT WITH SPEED LEVER ON LEFT SIDE. 3. INSTALL TWO LOWER SCREWS WITH A DROP OF LOC-TITE ON EACH AND TIGHTEN. 4. ALIGN ELEVATION/WINDAGE KNOBS TO 12 O'CLOCK AND 3 O'CLOCK POSITION. 5. NOW INSTALL AND ALTERNATELY TIGHTENTWO TOP SCREWS WITH A DROP OF LOC-TITE ON EACH. 6. REPLACE BATTERY AND BATTERY COVER. PLACE OPTIC ON GUN AND ADJUST LEVER TENSION PER INSTRUCTIONS. HERE'S THE I.Q. TEST PART: IF YOU DO NOT FOLLOW THE PLAIN AND SIMPLE DIRECTIONS USING LOC-TITE AND SNUGGING UP SOLIDLY THE BOTTOM TWO SCREWS BEFORE EVEN INSTALLING THE TOPS TWO SCREWS, YOU FLUNK. IF YOU FLUNK THIS TEST, YOU MAY BE TOO DUMB TO OWN A GUN. OH YES, AND YOUR POINT OF IMPACT MOVES VERTICALLY. WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
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Posted: 9/25/2004 9:51:32 PM EDT
[#39]
yea well I did follow the instructions, both the first time I installed it (tho that time I may not have tightened it enough... I'm used to things saying do not overtighten) and this time. This time all the screws are VERY tight, and the mount seems rock solid. still, working the action causes the dot to move up in relation to the front site post.... it pretty much HAS to be the aimpoint itself causing the problems at this point.
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Posted: 9/26/2004 5:25:27 AM EDT
[#40]
IQ? Too dumb to own a gun? I can see you are a very savy businessman. Point of impact does move vertically? It shouldn't when 5 points of contact are locked in, prone, sandbag, AND breathing is paid attention to. Last I checked, during zero fire you should get MOA and no wandering.
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Posted: 9/26/2004 7:06:40 AM EDT
[#41]
YOUR POINT OF IMPACT WILL MOVE VERTICALLY IF THE OPTIC IS FREE TO MOVE IN THE VERTICAL PLANE. THE OPTIC IS FREE TO MOVE IN THE VERTICAL PLANE IF YOU DO NOT FOLLOW THE INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS.
TELL ME WHEN YOU HAVE CAUGHT UP. BTW, I SPELL "SAVVY" DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU. WES |
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Posted: 9/26/2004 12:37:50 PM EDT
[#42]
Jefferson I will ask him tonight and reply first thing in the morning. |
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Posted: 9/26/2004 1:58:06 PM EDT
[#43]
Most excellent observation on my spelling error, Wes. But while we are at it, your grammar could use a tune-up. "...CCO Aimpoint mount is AN superb Aimpoint mount..." AN preceedes words which begin with a vowel, not a consonant. I'm sorry you were unable to gather that I installed my sight per the instructions, and attempted to zero my weapon using the proper method which was observed by a fellow instructor. Hmmmmmm, let's see: It wasn't the assembly and it's not the shooter. Must be the mount or the optic then, right? No, that couldn't be. If there was a problem with the mount or optic, (Both of which I STILL LOVE.) that might cut into your sales. I'm very sorry you feel the need to jump people with legitimate concerns and behave in such a presumptuous and arrogant manner. I expected more from a guy who seems to be so respected around here. |
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Posted: 9/26/2004 2:26:56 PM EDT
[#44]
also ask what mount he was using, and if when it came back from aimpoint it was working properly. |
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Posted: 9/26/2004 2:51:01 PM EDT
[#45]
 C4 |
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Posted: 9/26/2004 3:10:43 PM EDT
[#46]
I know for a fact he was using the ARMS 22M68, and yes it works properly now. I'll find for you how it was stringing his shots though. |
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Posted: 9/26/2004 3:12:36 PM EDT
[#47]
labdog6, You are barking up the WRONG tree. Wes can more than hold his own (he can defend himself). As of late, there have been more than I can count posts of problems that are soley user induced. Even I have admitted (see prior post in this thread) as to having improperly mounted my first scope in a LaRue mount. I didn't get on the Internet and say I got a POS what ever until I determine I DID NOT screw up. As it was, I did screw up. Way too many people say I can do this myself & save X of f"ing $. One thing that there is no question about, is Wes knows his shit. So back off, there is a lot of shit out there the Wes WILL not sell because he believes there are better alternatives. Notice, I didn't say POS. That's only because I don't want to be preceived as putting words in Wes's mouth. I spec my weapons for Wes to build & he will tell me when I'm full of shit whether he sells it or not. |
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Posted: 9/26/2004 3:49:49 PM EDT
[#48]
C4, I found no humor in this at all. And no,I will not chill out on this. When I want a serious weapon built, Wes builds it, end of story. Piece parts are one thing, weapons are another. So, C4, you need to chill out. |
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Posted: 9/26/2004 8:30:20 PM EDT
[#49]
Arrrrrrg! I really didn't want to end up going this route. I simply defended myself from a CLEARLY unprovoked attack. This shall be my last response on this thread, but before I'm done... PCURTIS: Why don't you read what I actually said? I asked a guy to tell me what response he gets from Aimpoint on his question because I was shooting a vertical line. I didn't ask YOU, or the guy you're in love with. 
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Posted: 9/27/2004 4:07:02 AM EDT
[#50]
Not to bump this to the top for a continuation, but to say after reading this again. I owe a few people an apology (labdog6 in particular). Guess I needed to actually chill out more than most other folks here. Again, my apology to all.
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