I just returned from Wyoming having done a little dog shooting.  I was using the excellent bolt action H-S Precision .22-.250 with a 26" barrel and a Leupold VX-L 6.5-20 Long Range Extreme Varminter scope.  Despite the great performance of the rifle, I was struck that a semi-auto rifle would have had some inherent advantages over the bolt action on small moving targets.  I'm inspired to build the best AR possible for my next expedition.  Most of the shots are between 100 and 400 yards, but targets at extended ranges also present themselves.  I've more or less settled on using a Leupold Mark 4 8.5-25 scope, but beyond that I have no specs for the new rifle.  Assuming that cost is not a limiting factor, what would be the ultimate AR set-up for this type of hunting?  (I've already looked at the varmint AR models of most of the major builders like Les Baer, RRA, etc.)  If possible, I'd like to stick with a .223 caliber, but could possibly be persuaded otherwise.

Thanks for your help.

Les Baer, is the only AR rifle I have ever heard of, that a semi auto, will come with
a guarantee of sub moa, shooting factory ammo.  there just is no other company willing to put up, the way they are.  And their 204 varminter, was tested by a gunrag dude, and he was not shooting very well, and he was popping off several diff brands , at the .5 inch mark.
which, with just one brand of factory ammo to do this, is double tough!!!

Pick up a Krieger, Shilen, Pac-Nor or other top end barrel and a Sun Devil lower upper combo from Rainer Arms and you will have what you need to build top shooter. The accuracy comes from the barrel and that is basically it. A good trigger is a must, scopes are another story, I have been shooting pd's since I was 9 y/o and still think a Leupold 12x is ideal. That said I have a closet full of scopes from everyone. I had a Wilson s/s air gauged barrel last year that shot like a house of fire, 225 bones ain't bad.

whats the budget?

height=8

Quoted: whats the budget?

Unlimited.  And I'll post pics when I'm done.

I also hang out  at the Predatormaster forums. They are really high on Mike Milli's rifles. Send him a stripped lower and he'll return an accurate prairie dog or coyote rifle. Warning: since this is a varmint rifle, he sets them up for light bullets: 1:8 to 1:14. His services are apparently top-shelf, but you'd better open your check book.

Dedicated Technology
815 1st Street East
P.O. Box 1612
Bemidji, MN. 56619
(218) 444-7419

[email protected]
www.dtechsuperstore.com/

After my first Pdog shoot I had the same reaction/observation that you did; A semi would be the best possible Pdog rifle for the target rich environment.  This is a Colt 6724 the "accurized Rifle"  24" floated match barrel with Jewel trigger and GG&G riser, and a Leupold 16X Mark4, and Sierra Precision grip.  It is one of the most accurate rifles I have ever shot, and I own 6PPC's!  Using 75 grain Hornady A-Max bullets I have killed Pdogs over 1,000 yards away, though I do think that 55 Nosler BT's are the better bullet for 95% of the Pdog shooting under 600 yards.  One comment on the scope, I have 8.5 x 25 Leupolds on some LR bolt rifles and have found the magnification over 20 power in some conditions to be unusable... 6.5 x 20 with the 30mm for me next time.

Those are my opinions, good luck.

Quoted: www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p4d511c35b4369cbc72f8a9ea9fd87032/ea1d7d3f.jpg

What's the verdict on the "butt plug"?

I've seen those rubber resonator doohickeys at the gun store before, but always assumed BS. Have you had any noticeable improvement with it?

Kreiger barrel
FF tube (dont need all the rails, basic tube that will keep the mirage down will be fine.)
Billet upper
Young NM chrome BCG
magpul PRS stock
any lower
Geissele trigger- a must
Harris bipod

thats about it.

Quoted: I just returned from Wyoming having done a little dog shooting.  I was using the excellent bolt action H-S Precision .22-.250 with a 26" barrel and a Leupold VX-L 6.5-20 Long Range Extreme Varminter scope.  Despite the great performance of the rifle, I was struck that a semi-auto rifle would have had some inherent advantages over the bolt action on small moving targets.  I'm inspired to build the best AR possible for my next expedition.  Most of the shots are between 100 and 400 yards, but targets at extended ranges also present themselves.  I've more or less settled on using a Leupold Mark 4 8.5-25 scope, but beyond that I have no specs for the new rifle.  Assuming that cost is not a limiting factor, what would be the ultimate AR set-up for this type of hunting?  (I've already looked at the varmint AR models of most of the major builders like Les Baer, RRA, etc.)  If possible, I'd like to stick with a .223 caliber, but could possibly be persuaded otherwise. Thanks for your help.

I'm going to take a little different approach than most have here, in that I would go with a .204, since you've  suggested that the expense is of no concern.

You could get the following:

White Oak Armory .204 upper......................................$1000.00 approx.
          or
DPMS .204 upper........................................................$860.00 approx.

Good lower................................................................$200.00 approx.

Lower parts kit.............................................................$70.00 approx.

Geiselle trigger.............................................................$280.00 approx.

Std. stock.....................................................................$60.00 approx.

Scope mount, or rings / riser...........................................$150.00 approx.

The .223 IMO generally will not reach out and touch the long dogs like the 22-250 that you used on your hunt.  The .204 will.

Don't overlook the Zeiss Conquest scope with the Rapid-Z reticle, even though you stated you want a Leupold.  The Zeiss at least bears a hands on look, again IMO.  I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Don't place too much emphasis on the prices I listed, as I tried to make clear they are all approximates.  Just trying to give you ballpark prices.

Bottom line, again IMO a good .204 barrel / upper, with the Geiselle trigger, and the Zeiss Conquest Rapid Z will be the "guts" of the firearm, and you'll have one hell of a PD rifle.  The rest of the parts you can change around a little bit without affecting the overall performance that much.  Plus you may want a different stock, or a one piece Larue mount, etc., etc.

The main point I'm trying to make is with what I've listed as the "guts" of the rifle, you really can't go wrong.

You would be better to spend the money on a silencer, the dogs will never know what him them.

i second the lb varmint, i own his varmint package with leup 8.5-25 scope in 223. the gun with factory ammo is 10 shots in a dime @ 100, i have posted many times that we shoot golf balls at 300 yards,  a few weeks back i hit 48 out of 50 shots from 300 yards off of the versa pod.  i paid 2500 for the package.....figure the scope costs 700-800 so the gun is the balence. i bought it on gunbroker, a dealer bought 5 from the shot show.

the only downside to the gun is the cheap plastic grip...toss it and put on a spr, dpms tactical and your all set.

no escuses, no bull shit, buy the les baer....it is amazing the level of accuracy one gets from his guns.

.223 Ackley Improved maybe?

Quoted: You would be better to spend the money on a silencer, the dogs will never know what him them.

+1

Towns that are used to being shot at, will start hiding in the holes after the first few shots.  You'll have to do a lot more moving and waiting for shots.

The .204 or 6.5g would be good cartridges as well, or look at accuracy international, I think they make a 22-250 ar conversion if I'm not mistaken.

This is very helpful.  Keep those suggestions coming.  BTW, I own a Gemtech G5 suppressor for .223.  Reduces noise to point where ear muffs are not required, but is still 'loud' enough to be heard for a good long distance.

I set out to do the same thing, howevr I did have a "small" budget.  Here is what I settled on:

Lower:
- Ameetec Lower ($100)
- RRA LPK ($75)
- Magpul PRS stock ($230)
- RRA "tuned" 2 stage NM trigger ($85)
- Tan ERGO grip ($30)

Upper:
- RRA 24" varmiter upper ($600)
- Young NM Low mass BCG chromed ($225)
- PRI Gas buster Charging handle ($90)
- GG&G Bipod ($175)
- Super Sniper 20X scope ($300)
- Warne Rings and Riser ($125)

Total = about $2K.

This picture was taken before I finished my list of upgrades.  IMHO the PRS stock is a godsend for this type of set up as is the GG&G bipod.  This rig will shoot MOA with just about any quality ammo that I put through it.  I can get BHBB 40 and 50 grain Vmax to shoot about 3/4 to 1/2" groups at 100 yards when I do my part.  I have taken this on several P-dog hunts and have had no proble hitting those little bastards at 400 yards.  The mil - dot reticle is a big help with the lighter bullets at longer ranges.  Hope this helps!

AT $1100 the CR6724 recomendation above would be my choice here too.

Add a Jewell 2-stage or similar quality trigger and good long range scope, feed it max velocity 77grn SMKs like our load here:

Sierra 77grn. MatchKing
24.0 grns. Accurate 2460, (Hot Load), DO NOT PUSH
loaded into once fired (or new) Remington Brass
Remington 7.5 small rifle benchrest primers
These are loaded mag length - 2.260" + or –


And it don't get any better, IMO, (I'll put my CR6724 up against any of the "customs" mentioned above at any range from 600-1000 yards any day of the week and have done so in the past).



This may be of some use to ya.

Come-ups for 24" Colt Accurized Rifle (6724) w/ Leupold Vari-X III, 4.5x14 w/ turrets and Mil-Dots, using load above:

100- zero
200-1 1/2 min
300-3 3/4 min
350-4 min
400-5 1/2 min
450-7 1/2 min
500-9 1/4 min
550-11 1/2 min
600-12 3/4 min
700-17 3/4 min
800-23 min
900- no target
1000-35 1/2 min (34-36 depending on humidity)



mike

I would have one of the custom AR/upper builders chamber and install a Pac-Nor three groove barrel on a rigid DPMS Lo/Hi Pro upper receiver.  Stick it on any lower you want with a nice two stage trigger in it and top it with a nice piece of glass.  Your eyeball is going to be looking through the thing for hours at a time, so you need something decent.  Plan on getting something that has more magnification then you actually plan to use.  I have yet to see a scope that has it's best clarity at the very top end of it's power range.  If you plan to use the thing in the 25x range, get something that goes to 32x.  You might want to consider going with the 204 Ruger, or the 20 Tactical if you reload.  You don't need a bunch of ATAS crap hanging on your varmint rig, so keep it simple.  Put your money in the barrel and the scope.  

Here's my personal 20 Tactical AR, it averages in the 3's and many groups are in the 1's.  It's a prairie dog smok'n machine.