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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/1/2005 3:19:39 PM EDT
After many years of silently reading this forum I finally decided to pull the trigger and order my first AR-15 today. However, the guy doing the ordering kept telling me I was going to destroy my hearing and I would absolutely have to use BOTH ear plugs and muffs or I would cause permanent hearing damage in a single shot. He said the AR he bought scared him to death when he first pulled the trigger and it was the loudest rifle he had ever shot. Said he could hardly believe it and ended up selling it.

Is there any truth to this? Is the AR-15 really loud?

I wasn't deterred by him and ordered the rifle anyway. But is this guy full of crap? How loud is an AR-15 compared to typical .223 bolt action rifle?

BTW: I ordered a Bushmaster M4A3 w/ 16" barrel. Only mods are a Phantom 2 flash suppressor and a Hogue grip. I am really excited!
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:21:56 PM EDT
I'd say he was completely full of it. The AR is no louder than a bolt action in the same caliber, barrel length for barrel length. How do these guys come up with this stuff?

Cheers,

Phil
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:23:55 PM EDT
The AK comp and Y comp are both horrid, and make things pretty loud. Its possible he fired one inside.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:31:01 PM EDT
Platoon....go have fun with your new rifle.

And


Find a different gun shop if you can.

The guy is full of shit

Taffy
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:33:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PLAT00N:
After many years of silently reading this forum I finally decided to pull the trigger and order my first AR-15 today. However, the guy doing the ordering kept telling me I was going to destroy my hearing and I would absolutely have to use BOTH ear plugs and muffs or I would cause permanent hearing damage in a single shot. He said the AR he bought scared him to death when he first pulled the trigger and it was the loudest rifle he had ever shot. Said he could hardly believe it and ended up selling it.

Is there any truth to this? Is the AR-15 really loud?

I wasn't deterred by him and ordered the rifle anyway. But is this guy full of crap? How loud is an AR-15 compared to typical .223 bolt action rifle?

BTW: I ordered a Bushmaster M4A3 w/ 16" barrel. Only mods are a Phantom 2 flash suppressor and a Hogue grip. I am really excited!




What??

Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:37:00 PM EDT
Thanks. I typically get crap from gun dealers because I have a very young face. I don't know what it is, but when they see a young blond guy they suddenly go into "let me tell you a thing or two young man" mode. It burns me up. Aww well.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:38:57 PM EDT
+1 on the full of shit thing.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:41:42 PM EDT
I have two children under two and will lose more hearing from close proximity child screaming than in years of shooting. I have always used earplugs that expand (rated the highest protection).

It's a good idea to wear muffs and plugs, but not always practical.

You should be fine. Congrats on your purchase. Before you know it you'll own three or four ARs and enough mags for six guys.

Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:42:54 PM EDT
PLAT00N
Member
Joined :: October 2001
Post Number :: 2


Post Whore!


Seriously tho'...don't "listen" to that guy.
Maybe against eveyone else's judgment, I always take a shot or two with a new firearm
(.22, 9mm, .223 so far) without hearing protection. Just so if I ever have to use it for real,
I know what to expect. The AR wasn't nearly as bad as I thought! You'll be fine...

Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:49:25 PM EDT
Probably shot a braked AR. Probably a Mini-Y. Probably justified then.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:50:51 PM EDT
Wear GOOD covers EVERY SINGLE TIME you shoot. If you're on a range with other people setting off cannon-like guns, you may want to add plugs because of THEIR GUNS.

In the Air Force, range instructors are required to use both plugs and covers on the line because they spend much of each day exposed to gunfire. Unless you're going to eat all your meals at the range, you shouldn't NEED double protection.

Overall, double protection is not a bad idea if you can swing it. I wish I'd had my plugs in last Sunday. Some buffoon set up at the end of the pistol line and without telling anyone (we were in a cease fire, and my covers were off) he started firing! What a moron! It took a while for my ears to stop ringing because of his .357 20 feet away. Later, on the rifle line I was packing up my AR when the guy behind me fired his HK clone; I got a .308 case in the back of the head, along with the concussion from his rifle, but at least I had my covers on...

NEVER RISK YOUR HEARING! Like your eyesight, it's something you cannot get back! So buy really good covers and use them religiously.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:52:50 PM EDT
I have used expanding type plugs for fifteen years, I only use ear muffs occasionally. Both are equal in protection IMHO. If the gun seems loud then you need to re-insert your foamy's or adjust your muffs.

The guy was definitely just talking to hear himself talk

Now the "sound" of the evil black rifle scares the sheep!

Hay, Chihuahua
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:56:52 PM EDT
I have a 30-378 Weatherby Mag with factory brake. I PROMISE you, even if the guy shot a AR with brake, he does not know what loud is.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:59:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:10:06 PM EDT
Tell the guy to shoot a Barret M82 without hearing protection and then talk to you about noisey guns!
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:11:40 PM EDT
my first time taking my ar to the range I learned a few things. Its not so much the fact my rifle is loud, its just that guy with the m14 sitting next to me is louder! i was shooting without ear protection on the firing line (last time i do that) untill the guy next to me started blasting. then i got that ringing in my left ear and i knew i had to stop.

50 cents for cheap earplugs beats losing your hearing for a lifetime.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:12:07 PM EDT
word to the wise-no 2 patients are the same and I doubt that you would suffer significant hearing damage with one shot. I am relative new to shooting Ar15's and don't claim to know it all if much. But what I do for a living for the last 20 years (and alot of it) is treat hearing loss related to repetitive high frequency exposure -including rock musicians, veterans, factory workers, etc.---------do yourself a favor and wear hearing protection . My boat (and AR15) payments are caught up and I don't need to see you in 10 years to help support my bad habits. Just my 2 cents.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:20:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Not_A_Llama:
Probably shot a braked AR. Probably a Mini-Y. Probably justified then.




I agree. I was looking for a personal purchase as my Dad KB'd my his our Colt SP1. This was unfortunetly during the Y2K hype. All that was available in my city was a 16" Bushmaster w/ an AK muzzle brake. I had it for a few months before getting rid of the damn thing. I ended up getting a post ban w/ a "naked" muzzle... Much less noise. It wasn't even so much that the decibal level of the brake was too outrageous since I always use ear protection- it was the concussion felt in my nose every time I torched the SOB off. Not pleasant at all.

Sly
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:30:04 PM EDT
I really hate brakes on AR carbines, especially if it's a 14.5 + perm.

I was shooting my AK at a range once, with someone shooting a 1903 bolt gun next to me and someone with a carbine+brake on the other side of him. We were under a low awning, too.

Loudness, in order: BOOM! pop! KaBLAAAAMMMM!!!
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 5:04:18 PM EDT
hearing protection is mandatory for me ... my hearing is already pretty bad, and i can't afford to lose any more of it. spending the dough on an active set of muffs would be nice, but i wear glasses and muffs are uncomfortable. for me, i like the AOSafety Indoor/Outdoor Range Plugs which are double sided. one side provides a constant 22 db noise reduction, and the other uses a pressure actuated valve allowing normal conversation and sounds through, but as soon as a round is fired, the valve closes. they're expensive but well worth it.

HTH

-E5T
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 5:32:28 PM EDT
HUH?? Sorry couldn't hear ya.
When I had a Mini-Y comp on my Bushy it reminded everybody at the range to check their plugs.
I put in my plugs before I even get out of the truck at the range now.
After 8 years as an RO my hearing got beat up a bit. I always wore just plugs if I was shooting, but wore plugs and muffs when I was working the line.
Your hearing can't be replaced! Protect it.

This has been a Public Service Announcement.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 5:38:03 PM EDT
You will notice a difference switching from a .22 to an AR :)

This isn't the first time I've heard of someone saying that AR's are louder than other guns. I would think it has to do with what kind of brake/flash hider you have on the muzzle. The first time I was at the range with my friend who got me into ARs, we started shooting .22 and then he switched to his AR midway through without telling me. That first round startled me but it's nothing as catastrophic as you were told.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:09:53 PM EDT
I have continual ringing in one ear due to my stupidity at a couple of concerts. These days I always double up at the range unless the only weapons being fired are rimfire.

Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:32:53 PM EDT
I have used bot hear plugs and ear muffs with no issues. The AR is not particularily loud and when I compare it to my Mosin Nagant M38 or 91/59, it's a real pipsqueak. The muzzle brakes add noise if you have one, but nothing unmanageable.

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 12:38:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 12:57:54 AM EDT by NutsWoC]
2 cents...

I have six pairs of hearing protection, and two new sets of Silencio's I haven't tried yet.
Everyone with me wears them, and I don't have to remind them. One shot near you from a 7.62
or bigger or a loud handgun is usually uncomfortable without protection.

I am in 100% for wearing hearing protection.
Like the guy said once it's lost, it's lost, so don't risk it foolishly.

Skip the rest unless you are extremely bored, like I am tonight

My Observations:
Reflecting on this subject now, I have some interesting and contrasting experiences...

.22anything (without brakes) is more of a high pitched sound, but lacks the concussion of any larger rifle round, so it's eaiser for me to tolerate with or without protection.

I've shot a .22 Harrington and Richardson revolver that my buddy sold after one day because it had such an extreme ear piercing sound to it (in my circles we didn't ever think of hearing protection back then). Some guns hurt and sound horrible regardless of calibur.

Most muzzle breaks make a gun twice as loud if you are to the side of it. Most long guns are tolerable even without protection if you are shooting them yourself, but from the side are usually painful. If the rifle in question has a brake, send it to Adco for replacement if you like. I just had a Phantom 5C2 mounted and it is no louder than my stright barrel was (I checked with a few rounds :P ) I shot into darkness and I have never seen less flash from a rifle.

I once shot my sons 1911 in a forest and the sound was completely unbearable for he and I. In the open it is not uncomfortable at all.

I used to have a Smith Corona Win. 300 Magnum (In WWII even typewriter companies made guns! It had the only blueing I have ever seen that would not rust, even here in south Florida if it was touched and not wiped off for months) and shot it hundreds of times with no hearing protection, and it never felt too uncomfortable, just loud. I bet standing to the side of it would be very bad.

My AR is not uncomfortable for me to shoot without protection, though I wear it with very few exceptions. But when I had my first AR twenty years ago, I never wore any.

Never wore any when I had an HK91, also back in the day. I shot it probably 1000 rounds before I sold it (Rule 5: Never sell a gun)

My first gun I personaly bought (grandfather in tow) was a Ruger 44 magnum, when I was thirteen, and again I never even herd of hearing protection (pun untended, but true). Shot it hundreds of times.

Growing up with family rifles (.22, .220 Swift, .223, 30-30, 30-06, 300 Win mag, etc) ,pistols, and shotguns of every calibur and guage, I never even saw anyone with hearing protection.

I worked on the tarmak with commercial jets for a few years, and would stand right next to the engines screaming into one anothers ears to communicate, and none of our crew wore hearing protection.

I took my kids to an Alice Cooper concert last night, and it was extremely loud, which we love. After the one here two years ago, it took three days for our ears to retun to normal. I have personally been to too many concerts to count, starting with Queen in 1978. I also play music and Americas Army really loud with headphones on to hear foot steps which is crucial in that game. And when you can hear the footsteps, the guns are going to be very loud. But they do sound fantastic!

My friend who makes my firearms experience seem trivial, reports he can 'hear the ring' 24/7 if he is quiet and thinks about it. He is a big proponent of hearing protection. He too wore none years ago.

Those are some of my exposures, mostly foolish in retrospect. I'm sure each episode did some damge, making it more tolerable for me each subsequent time. I have been very lucky as I can still hear! I live with a girl who claims to.. and most certainly does have 'bat-like hearing' and sits in silence half the time. Based on the tv volumes we both set and just living together I know I have normal hearing, or very close. I often compare our hearing consciously, due to my age and all the exposures I've had, and I am always surprised I hear as well as I do. I don't hear quite as well as she does, but I think I hear about normal for a working male.

Always wear hearing protection. It's dumb in target practice not to.
But, if someday at the range you are reloading and forget for a second to lift them off your neck when you yell "Line Hot!" and some guy blasts one off with a Para FAL with a side splitting brake on the end, just pull them up really fast and smile that dumb smile, you'll probaly recover and be ok.



Good shooting! Be safe!
Nuts{WoC}

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 1:42:18 AM EDT
Use Hearing Protection , BUT SHOOT YOUR AR and (ENJOY IT)
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:48:32 AM EDT
It's not louder than any other rifle. I wear both the earplugs and a headset when I shoot. I spend alot of time on the range so I'm very protective of my hearing.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:07:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NutsWoC:
I just had a Phantom 5C2 mounted and it is no louder than my stright barrel was (I checked with a few rounds :P ) I shot into darkness and I have never seen less flash from a rifle.




Thanks, I after hearing about the noise caused by muzzel brakes I was curious about the Phantom 5C2 since this is what I ordered on my weapon. Anyone else have experience with the Phantom 5C2? Louder than a straight barrel?
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:10:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PLAT00N:
Thanks, I after hearing about the noise caused by muzzel brakes I was curious about the Phantom 5C2 since this is what I ordered on my weapon. Anyone else have experience with the Phantom 5C2? Louder than a straight barrel?



Probably only on shorter barrel lengths...
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:46:57 PM EDT
I wear both pairs simply because the stock of my ar-15 tends to break the seal on my Peltors and I get a slight bit more of the noise than I want. Secondly, the foam ear plugs help me avoid being distracted by the .50 cal and other loud rifles if they're right beside me. But I doubt I'm causing any permanent hearing loss when I only wear my Peltors. I have my hearing checked every year at work and there has been no depreciation in my hearing the last 7 years.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:30:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 8:32:05 PM EDT by WIZZO_ARAKM14]

Originally Posted By GhostRing:

..................... I always take a shot or two with a new firearm
(.22, 9mm, .223 so far) without hearing protection. Just so if I ever have to use it for real,
I know what to expect. The AR wasn't nearly as bad as I thought! You'll be fine...



I did that too......until I tried it with my dad's M1903A3 Springfield. Pulled the trigger and damn near dropped the thing in pain. My head (not just ears) rang for 2 days after that. I have tried a pistol (either .40 or .45, I can't remember) and I won't be trying that agin either.

I did try my AR once, and while not painful like the '03, it didn't feel good and I knew it was loud enough to do damage.

I don't shoot without ear protection except while hunting. Even then, I don't like it. I am currently contemplating a Noveske FH for the AR I'm gonna use this year, but that's an awful lot of money for a FH.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:41:27 PM EDT
LOL!

I feel your pain, man!
(notice I didn't try it with the 12 ga.!!)

I've been running my Peltor T6's for a few months now with zero problems.
Granted, most range time doesn't involve a .50 right next to me, but I love these things...
You kind of forget you're wearing them.

Between the T6's and my SpeedGlas auto welding helmet, my two favorite hobbies
are even more fun!
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:25:19 AM EDT
After firing my AR for the first time yesterday (indoors), I found out that I can't wear ear muffs as they get in the way. No real problems with just foam ear plugs though.

After a lifetime of Top Fuel and F1 cars, I know my hearing has been compromised, and I'm much more sensitive than normal.

Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:42:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sysops666:
my first time taking my ar to the range I learned a few things. Its not so much the fact my rifle is loud, its just that guy with the m14 sitting next to me is louder! i was shooting without ear protection on the firing line (last time i do that) untill the guy next to me started blasting. then i got that ringing in my left ear and i knew i had to stop.

50 cents for cheap earplugs beats losing your hearing for a lifetime.



Seemed to me my ARs with the 16" barrels were louder than my M1A. Maybe its just me.

Also, I would suggest ear plugs over the muffs. The muffs hinder your check weld and safety glasses break the seal around your ears rindering them ineffective. My .02

Congrats on your first AR!
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 10:34:27 AM EDT
Interesting fact for you guys -- if you have the expanding foam plugs installed correctly in your ears and then add muffs, you only reduce the noise levels by 3 - 4DB. Pretty interesting, eh? I would have thought that it was more, but it's not

A lot of guys can't figure out how to correctly get the expanding foam plugs installed in their ears correctly. If you're one of these guys, then get yourself the best pair of muffs that you can afford.
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