Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
PSA
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 4/26/2011 5:02:02 PM EDT
OK, I know some of you don't like heads-up posts, but this one right here merits some attention. (Closing soon, too!)

Looks like a nice Portuguese "sniper" variant AR10 built on an H&H semi-auto lower.  The nice thing is it's pretty much complete––including the bayonet and very hard-to-find Delft scope.  
I do like the bipod on these––note the way it folds into recesses in the handguards sorta like the FAL.

The scope looks very nice.  Don't think I've seen that scope case before, though.
Also don't think I've ever seen that stock on a Portuguese variant––generally they have a sling mount on the side rather than underneath.  When the US firms were assembling these old parts kits, of course, some pieces could have easily been intermixed.  That's one reason I really wish sellers of rifles like these would provide many more detailed photos.  
He does, on the other hand, provide a youtube video.

The limited edition book looks like a collation of the AR10er newsletters.  I knew the publisher put one together but never saw one till now.  However, those old newsletters are becoming easier to find, so the value of the book is sort of limited.

Note that the seller stresses it's been a safe queen since the 80's when it was imported and assembled.  Unfortunately, the serious wear and tear on those parts kits came in the two decades before they ever reached the U.S.  Hard to tell how nice the parts were before it was assembled.

Have no doubt, though––that is a very nice Ar10 setup.  In fact, I think I'll probably submit a bid later tonight, after I've had a while to consider it.
...But I won't be clicking that Buy-It-Now button and something tells me I probably won't meet the reserve.  
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 5:40:16 PM EDT
jeez.  I missed it.  The listing could have been better written.  olgunner, I will let you have this one.

The buttstock and pistolgrip are from a Sudanese AR10.  I think the value is dependent on some details not obvious from the photos.  Such as scope condition, original finish or black paint.  These scopes were not filled with inert gas and tended to become fogged.
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 6:22:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/26/2011 6:23:26 PM EDT by Hntrman]
Someone has Deep Pockets on this Board.
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 6:51:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hntrman:
Someone has Deep Pockets on this Board.


I wish mine were that deep!
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 6:56:29 PM EDT
That is quite a premium for a bipod and Delft scope.  Recall the last Porto sniper languished on gunbroker for most of last year at about $7K.
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 7:48:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/26/2011 8:16:23 PM EDT
I'm just running by what my uncle is selling it for. The price is negoitible.



Don't be afraid to ask questions and I would happy to answer. What is written is what I am being told to put it up from my uncle who was a SOT for nearly 29 years.




he had several of these including some Full Auto ones.






Link Posted: 4/26/2011 9:07:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PRDUBI:
I'm just running by what my uncle is selling it for. The price is negoitible.

Don't be afraid to ask questions and I would happy to answer. What is written is what I am being told to put it up from my uncle who was a SOT for nearly 29 years.

he had several of these including some Full Auto ones.




There's not a lot of info about condition in the listing. I'd certainly want to know more details before even considering a rifle in that price range.

Like I said, that's a very nice setup––the scope alone is almost impossible to find––but is there something there I'm missing that makes this outfit worth anything near the buy-it-now?
The last old Ar10 to sell here on the boards went for around $2600 just a few months ago (although it didn't have the original furniture IIRC).
I paid $3k for a complete Portuguese rifle on a Central KY Arms lower about 2 yrs ago, and around $500 for a nice bayonet. I also paid $1000 for a like-new Delft scope for my AR15 (make that $1300 with the mount).  Now, the Ar10 in the auction does have the bipod, which is worth a premium, no doubt. But that still wouldn't get us to the buy-it-now neighborhood.
Is there something particularly rare about this rifle that I'm just not seeing in the pics?

Almost a year ago, I saw a class II Portuguese (with the bipod but no scope) for $15k and if I can find that one again, I'll buy it...but that's only because transferable autos are very few in numbers (even compared to old AR10's in general).

Sure would love to have this one in my collection, though, if price weren't an issue.
Link Posted: 4/28/2011 2:58:55 PM EDT
Wouldn't you just love to find this baby for sale.  


Link Posted: 4/28/2011 3:28:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PrivateSnafu:
Wouldn't you just love to find this baby for sale.  


http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff160/nosepiece/AR-10LMG.jpg

Uhhh, yes!!!
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 4:02:13 AM EDT
Back to the original topic.  The gunbroker listing.  Relisted, with a discount of $1000.  Does that bayonet look right to you olgunner?  To me it looks Itallian, BM59 ?
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 7:12:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By PrivateSnafu:
Wouldn't you just love to find this baby for sale.  


http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff160/nosepiece/AR-10LMG.jpg



One was posted for sale in summer of 06 on Sturm, I though about finding the funds for too long and was second in line..
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 4:33:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HHollow:
Back to the original topic.  The gunbroker listing.  Relisted, with a discount of $1000.  Does that bayonet look right to you olgunner?  To me it looks Itallian, BM59 ?
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/SAM_00421.JPG


It's an interesting question. According to ar10.nl, the bayos for the Portuguese rifle and the carbine have several differences.  This one, though, seems to have some features of both.

Based on a freeze frame of the youtube vid, the bayo looks like it attaches correctly, and the shape of the blade looks right (although I can't make out the small AI rollmark).  But the blade may be missing a grind line, and the 6-grooved grips and the pommel look more like the carbine version.  (The "claw" that hold the bayo to the lug is different than the push-button on the rifle bayo.)

The barrel ring/finger guard, however, is definitely not the "bent" design of the carbine bayo.  It is shaped like the one on the rifle version, but it looks like it's attached to the blade differently than any other I've seen.  Mine has two rivets that secure the guard to the blade. That one looks like it has a groove of some sort.

The scabbard also looks a lot like the one for the carbine version.  The web strap looks correct––rivets are in the right configuration and placement and the retaining snap looks right. (The ends of my retaining strap are unfinished-see pic below––but that one looks like they may be tipped. According to the NL site, they're legit.) Also, the lip around the ferrule is wider than the one on mine (and bent down a bit).
But...that one has a wire belt hanger.  Could have been added, I suppose, but I haven't seen that on any other scabbard––rifle or carbine.

I can see the similarities with the BM59 bayo, but this grip has less curve and the blade shape and main grind lines are definitely different.
I'd love to see better pics of this one––would like to know if it's "AI"-marked––but I'm wondering if it's simply an unusual variant of the Portuguese bayonet.  Maybe a transitional model? A prototype? Or simply one someone "restored" with non-standard parts.

Link Posted: 4/29/2011 5:21:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2011 5:24:37 PM EDT by Morg308]
The blade on the one in the for sale pic looks much longer, than yours OlGunner. I'm thinking HHollow might be right. Plus the guy is obviously into Garands and M14's. It almost looks like a long Garand bayo that's been modified. I bet m1sniper could tell us.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 7:06:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Morg308:
The blade on the one in the for sale pic looks much longer, than yours OlGunner. I'm thinking HHollow might be right. Plus the guy is obviously into Garands and M14's. It almost looks like a long Garand bayo that's been modified. I bet m1sniper could tell us.


I don't think so.  It's hard to get a direct comparison, given camera angles, but I grabbed a screen cap from the video, flipped it and rotated it to approximately level.  This shows mine on the bottom and the one in question on top.  You might not be able to compare overall length, but compare ratios of length.



More importantly, look at the primary grind lines on the blades above, then compare them to the BM59 bayo below (pic borrowed from the web).
I'd say they're definitely different.  Plus look at the differences in the crossguards and pommels.



As for the M1 Garand bayo, I think every one I've seen has a long, deep fuller. Definitely not too similar to the blades above.

Like I said, this would be an interesting one to get better photos of.
Link Posted: 4/30/2011 3:14:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2011 3:20:03 AM EDT by m1sniper]
Originally Posted By OlGunner:
Originally Posted By Morg308:
The blade on the one in the for sale pic looks much longer, than yours OlGunner. I'm thinking HHollow might be right. Plus the guy is obviously into Garands and M14's. It almost looks like a long Garand bayo that's been modified. I bet m1sniper could tell us.


I don't think so.  It's hard to get a direct comparison, given camera angles, but I grabbed a screen cap from the video, flipped it and rotated it to approximately level.  This shows mine on the bottom and the one in question on top.  You might not be able to compare overall length, but compare ratios of length.

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt247/OlGunner/bladeX.jpg

More importantly, look at the primary grind lines on the blades above, then compare them to the BM59 bayo below (pic borrowed from the web).
I'd say they're definitely different.  Plus look at the differences in the crossguards and pommels.

http://www.jjmilitaryantiques.com/images/sale/106873.jpg

As for the M1 Garand bayo, I think every one I've seen has a long, deep fuller. Definitely not too similar to the blades above.

Like I said, this would be an interesting one to get better photos of.

Sorry,I can't add anything but this observation,and it's one I don't like.NOTE before I continue,it may well be cam angles.Pic I'm referring to is the "freeze frame" above.To me it looks like the bayo sits hi in the back and leans down towards the front.And if you look at how the "ring" sits on the barrel,it does not look parallel to the rear edge of the wide area of the barrel,,,as in the cross guard is not perfectly perpendicular to the barrel.This make any sense?
If you then compare to Gunners 2nd pic,look how the ring is parallel to where the barrel thins.
ETA,I do have a BM 59 bayo here (the one I have for that "what the hell" carbine I slapped together with the BM tri compensator).If you guys need any measurements/pics I'll be happy to post them.I'll add this too,the BM bayo fits the bayo lug on a standard AR 15/M16 and will lock but is very jiggly.

Top Top