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Posted: 9/1/2004 6:01:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2004 6:02:37 AM EST by David0858]
I just found out that if you don't specify whether you want a .223 or 5.56 barrel from Model1 they will send you a .223 without asking, so now I get to sent my lightweight 16" back. he
It does NOT say on the barrel what it is. The only thing on the barrel is MS1 and 1-9.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:17:17 AM EST
i always ask
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 8:52:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2004 8:54:59 AM EST by David0858]

i always ask


I meant to. I had it wrote down, but I was ordering several other parts and lost track. To make it even worse, they told me it will cost $15 to ship the replacement back to me when the whole order was only $10 shipping to start with. I would have thought a lightweight 16" would have came standard in 5.56 with the .223 having to be requested.

Everybody together "You Should Have Bought a Bushmaster!!" htweight
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 10:40:34 AM EST
I actualy am questioning my Model 1 upper now after reading this. I emailed them and the only reply I got was that it was safe to shhot my xm193 ammo in either size chamber. Is this true ???

I only have like 100 rounds thru it but it was all walmart white box. If it is a .223 chamber is it safe to use the 5.56 xm193 ???? i tryed checking it out myself. I dropped a .223 round into the chamber and turned the barrel upright. the .223 round fell out with no help. I dropped a XM193 federal round in and turned it upright and had to lightly tap the end of the barrel for the round to fal free. Id go shoot it today and see but dnthave aywere close by atm........

Any info would be good..............
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 11:16:51 AM EST
SAAMI says absolutely NOT to shoot 5.56mm in .223 chambers. M1S is giving you not only bad info, but dangerous, hazardous to your health info.

http://www.fulton-armory.com/556-vs-223-Chambers.htm
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 11:42:05 AM EST
I put in an order with M1s over the internet this weekend.

I just checked myorder confirmation. It's listed as 5.56 (thank God).

Also, they called me yesterday to let me know about some options (n/c fluting and a special price on rail handguards or some such) that weren't showing up on the web. It seems it was just a friendly "heads up" from them.

When I asked about delivery, they let me know that the order had hit the custom build phase, and that I should expect it to ship out on Thursday (tomorrow).

Dunno about you guys, but I'm having pretty good luck with them. I was planning on going with a RRA built upper, but it seems tey're backed up by weeks. (YMMV)
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 12:02:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2004 12:04:23 PM EST by David0858]

I actualy am questioning my Model 1 upper now after reading this. I emailed them and the only reply I got was that it was safe to shhot my xm193 ammo in either size chamber. Is this true ???



I bet you have a .223. That's what I was told, too when I found out I had a .223 chamber. They said it was safe to shoot any .223/5.56 in it, but I don't buy it and the barrel goes back.

Besides I have intentions of shooting some of the Russiam ammo and want all the help I can get for it to work in my rifle.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 12:29:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By David0858: Everybody together "You Should Have Bought a Bushmaster!!" htweight
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 12:36:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2004 12:41:11 PM EST by reloader15]
I have orderd from Model 1 Sales.

I asked how I could tell which barrel I was had, since they didn't mark caliber. I was told that I had 5.56 if the 80 grain sierras had to be seated long enough that they wouldn't fit in the magazine. What the heck? The 80's don't fit in my magazines for my tight match .223 chambers either. I'm need to gauge it now to check. I suspect they just order .223 barrels and do the extra reaming ocassionally when requested.

Honestly, I just haven't had great luck with them for technical aspects. They also didn't send me all the correct items I ordered, then wanted me to pay shipping for what they sent me incorrectly.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 12:41:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By David0858: I just found out that if you don't specify whether you want a .223 or 5.56 barrel from Model1 they will send you a .223 without asking, so now I get to sent my lightweight 16" back. he
It does NOT say on the barrel what it is. The only thing on the barrel is MS1 and 1-9.



I ordered a M1S M4gery a few months back, I just read this thread and I called them because my barrel reads.....
M1S
HC
1 - 9

I asked the guy about it and he said that the chrome lined barrels ONLY come in 5.56. Sounds to me though you only have a chromemoly barrel, instead of a Hardened Chrome.


Originally Posted By David0858: Everybody together "You Should Have Bought a Bushmaster!!" hr


Yeah a "Bushmaster" hinking.gif Let me see....I spent $700 on my M1S M4gery, Why spend the $400 more on a "Bushy" when I could I could spend that $400 on....optics....rail systems, lights, lasers, CMags, magazines....... Sorry, I just can't see gettin hyped up about a name.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 2:07:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2004 2:21:34 PM EST by viper5194]
David0858 , If your referring to the Wolf ammo as the Russian, the 100 rounds i have put thru this barrle have been wolf and i had no issues. It tokk em in and spit the caseings back out without a hik-up....... Wonder if they use that Wylde chamber. Its supposed to be safe for both .223 and 5.56 ..... As i stated in the previous post, I actualy chambered the xm193 and the walmart white box thru the rifle and they both extracted easily. Things might be different with a hot chamber but neither of the rounds, includeing the wolf stuck in the chamber..

Here is a reply i sent back to the email telling me both rounds where fine.............


I hope im not offending you by asking questions about your barrels, I just wanted to make sure it was safe to do from my standpoint. Every one i have spoken with regarding this issue has told me NOT to run 5.56 in a chamber made for .223 .... I even investigated it myself and found SAAMI online which gives a list of unsafe cartridge combinations. It specifies not to use the 5.56 in the .223 chamber.

www.saami.org/unsafe3.htm

I also found a couple sites that point out the difference in the two rounds and show the differeces in print.

home.sprynet.com/~frfrog/miscelld.htm#5.56%20mm%20NATO

www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm#diff

Both sites clearly state that the 5.56 if used in a .223 chamber can increase chamber pressure by an additional 15,000 PSI or more. Increased chamber pressure is the number one cause of KABOOMS in AR-15 rifles. I am only trying to find out what my barrel is chambered for for my own safety. If studies show a danger and you are telling people its safe theres an issue. I need to know for myself so i can decide to sell this barrel off and buy one speced at 5.56 . If you can please provide further detail as to your chamber types. As said in my previous email, i cant remember specifying .223 or 5.56 but i wasnt asked either. Im just trying to figure out which one you sent me. If you keep records of your sales, the kit was purchased on 3-30-04 and my name is Robert Davis, it was shipped to Kettering Ohio 45419.

Sincerly, Robert

"sales@model1sales.com" <sales@model1sales.com> wrote:
It is perfectly fine to shoot the XM193 ammo in either chamber

Thank you

Robert Davis wrote:

> I purched a CAR kit from you on 3/30/04. I was wondering if there was
> a way to tell what chamber size i was sent. i dont remember being
> asked which i wanted and I cant recall if I stated which i wanted.
> Someone pointed out that if when ordering the size is not stated that
> model 1 sends out the .223 chamber. This mainly concerns me since i
> just bought 1000 rounds of XM193 ammo and am not sure if its ok to run
> it thru this barrle. i actualy havent shot the upper since I received
> it and didnt think much of the chamber size until i read a post today
> on a web forum. If there is any way to tell the chamber size, please
> let me know ....If i cant figure this out i may end up having to buy
> another barrel from you in the 5.56 range.
>
> Sincerly, Robert Davis

Link Posted: 9/1/2004 2:23:49 PM EST


Yeah a "Bushmaster" Let me see....I spent $700 on my M1S M4gery, Why spend the $400 more on a "Bushy" when I could I could spend that $400 on....optics....rail systems, lights, lasers, CMags, magazines....... Sorry, I just can't see gettin hyped up about a name.



Who is spending $1100 for a Bushmaster? If you are looking to build on the cheap, you need to look around more. I've built plenty for under $500, including this one.


Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:43:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2004 7:43:40 PM EST by BravoCompanyUSA]
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:52:58 PM EST
stickman, is that an illusion, or is the delta ring smooth
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 11:35:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By avengeusa:
stickman, is that an illusion, or is the delta ring smooth


Neither. Get a better monitor!
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:57:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/2/2004 9:01:39 AM EST by hispeedal2]
I left the following quote in another thread recently. I personally have fired thousands of 5.56 rounds through a .223 chamber with absolutely no problems what so ever. However, many people still believe this is dangerous for one reason or another. Armalite, to most anyway, is a well known and respected manufactuer whom also uses .223 chmabers.
From Armalite's Tech notes:
"FACTS:

.223 Remington (SAAMI standard) and 5.56mm (NATO standard) rifle chambers are almost identical. The difference is largely limited to the “freebore,” the cylindrical space in front of the case mouth, and the “lead” or “leade,” the the tapered region that eases the bullet into full engagement with the rifling. NATO and SAAMI cartridges can normally be used interchangeably with no problem.

The SAAMI chamber features less freebore and a tighter leade, which normally provide better bullet fit and match-grade accuracy than the NATO chamber. It is wonderfully suited to match bullets.

Millions of rounds of NATO ammunition have been fired safely in Eagle Arms' and ArmaLite’s SAAMI chambers over the past 15 years. Occasionally a non-standard round (of generally imported) ammunition will fit too tightly in the leade, and resistance to early bullet movement can cause elevated chamber pressures. These pressures are revealed by overly flattened or powder stains that reveal gasses leaking around the primer.

The first few rounds of ALL ammunition, from whatever source or lot, should be checked for pressure and other signs of defect before firing large quantities. If you have a problem, you can generally bet that the ammunition meets neither SAAMI nor NATO specifications.

ArmaLite has adopted a practice of using a special, modified SAAMI chambers in its stainless steel match barrels. This chamber is better for match use than the NATO chamber, but fires the NATO ammunition perfectly. We use the NATO chamber in all moly (phosphated) and chrome-lined barrels."

Use quality U.S. made 5.56 and you want have a problem.

Link Posted: 9/2/2004 12:46:54 PM EST
I build Bushies for about $750
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 1:22:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By David0858:
I just found out that if you don't specify whether you want a .223 or 5.56 barrel from Model1 they will send you a .223 without asking, so now I get to sent my lightweight 16" back. he
It does NOT say on the barrel what it is. The only thing on the barrel is MS1 and 1-9.



This problem was sovled easly enough as it turned out.

I sold the barrel on EE. Someone got a good deal on a new barrel because I was out the difference no matter what considering I would have had pay to send the old barrel back to Model and an additional $15 for Model 1 to send the 5.56 barrel back to me. Now I don't have to wait for them to get the wrong barrel back and then ship me the one I wanted. I screwed up. I'm out money but you live and learn.

Bushmaster said my new 16" lightweight assm. will ship out tommorrow.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 1:39:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By RatTerrier:

Originally Posted By David0858: I just found out that if you don't specify whether you want a .223 or 5.56 barrel from Model1 they will send you a .223 without asking, so now I get to sent my lightweight 16" back. I called the order in and forgot to tell them I wanted a 5.56.

It does NOT say on the barrel what it is. The only thing on the barrel is MS1 and 1-9.



I ordered a M1S M4gery a few months back, I just read this thread and I called them because my barrel reads.....
M1S
HC
1 - 9

I asked the guy about it and he said that the chrome lined barrels ONLY come in 5.56. Sounds to me though you only have a chromemoly barrel, instead of a Hardened Chrome.


Originally Posted By David0858: Everybody together "You Should Have Bought a Bushmaster!!"


Yeah a "Bushmaster" Let me see....I spent $700 on my M1S M4gery, Why spend the $400 more on a "Bushy" when I could I could spend that $400 on....optics....rail systems, lights, lasers, CMags, magazines....... Sorry, I just can't see gettin hyped up about a name.



if you don't know the difference, and can't tell the difference, don't worry about it. What you have will work for you.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 9:39:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/2/2004 10:06:06 PM EST by JustL00king]
.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:04:18 PM EST

Who is spending $1100 for a Bushmaster? If you are looking to build on the cheap, you need to look around more. I've built plenty for under $500, including this one.



A Bushmaster for under $500? Are you a dealer by any chance??? I can't find Bushmaster parts that would give me a complete rifle for that price. I'm looking at $600-$700 for a Bushmaster barrel and non-Bushmaster receivers.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 6:59:58 AM EST
Sure if your giving it away I'll gladly take it.

Link Posted: 10/16/2004 3:15:00 PM EST
Not to add insult to injury but.....

Shop around you can probably get an Upper a Barrel Assy and a Bolt Carrier Cheaper than Model 1 from more reputable companies. If you have the tools to assemble it.

CMT Upper From GTS/Denny's Guns $ 88.00
M4 Type Barrel Assy from Bushy $219.95 Chrome Lined
RRA Bolt and Carrier from Eagle Firearms $ 95.00
Charging Handle (Eagle) $ 16.00

418.95 +S&H


Model1 425.00 +S&H Not Chrome lined
Model1 460.00 +S&H Chrome lined

LMT Barreled Upper from GTS/Denny's 484.00 +S&H No Bolt and carrier.

So with my $419 kit I can add a $54 (RRA) Lower Parts kit and a $69 stock and buffer (RRA) Both from Eagle Firearms.

So for $541 I have a name brand parts kit......
VS $530 for the equivalent from M1S

Add to that about a hundred bucks for the lower plus shipping and transfer fees from an FFL usually 20-35 dollars.
Ameetech has lowers for 89 I think....Figure 129 all tolled.

so 541 +s&h for name brand parts
129 for a lower

680 Will net you a pretty nice rifle.
Keep in mind that Your mileage may vary but shop wisely
Your first one will likely not be your last.
If you buy quality tools up front then you will use them again trust me.

You can get an action block and a nice wrench for around 50 bucks and it will last a lifetime.

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