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Posted: 6/25/2007 3:06:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: Zhukov]
Link Posted: 6/25/2007 3:09:53 PM EST
[#1]

Originally Posted By Zhukov:
I'll add a poll too if it makes you happy, but I'm primarily interested in the following:
1) Was the Ciener kit stock or modified? If modified, how?

I polished the rails to remove the manufacturing burrs.

2) What ammo was used?

Dunno, has happened several times
3) How far out of the chamber was the round when it went off?
Off the top of my head...? About a third of it was in the chamber, maybe a little mroe than that, but not much
4) Did any damage occur to the kit?
None that I am aware of.
5) Approximate number of rounds fired through the kit

Lots.  But, the problem ocurred often enough that I encouraged everyone to wear shooting glasses.  I considered it a 'likely' problem to occur on my kit

OOBs appear to not be that uncommon, so I was interested in collecting some data to see if there's a common denominator. Only reply if you've had an OOB discharge please...


TRG
Link Posted: 6/25/2007 3:12:01 PM EST
[#2]
Link Posted: 6/25/2007 3:35:09 PM EST
[#3]

Originally Posted By Zhukov:
For me:
1) Stock kit
2) Remington Golden Bullet
3) ~ 1/16"
4) No damage
5) Approximately 500 rounds


No damage from mine either, but I did get sprayed with brass fragments.

TRG
Link Posted: 6/25/2007 4:08:19 PM EST
[#4]
Tag for review
Link Posted: 6/25/2007 4:24:18 PM EST
[#5]
Have not


1) polished rails etc... stock springs
2) Federal and remington bulk paks (wally world)
3) n/a
4) n/a
5) little over 500
Link Posted: 6/25/2007 4:28:15 PM EST
[#6]
Whether or not the OOB Discharge happened during slow-fire/rapid-fire could also be interesting to see. I doubt that has much to do with it, but you never know.
Link Posted: 6/25/2007 4:30:46 PM EST
[#7]
Federal value pack
no problems.
500 rounds
Link Posted: 6/25/2007 4:42:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: AZ-K9] [#8]
Yup.




Results of a magwell hold and a OOB.



Shitty Federal value packs.
Link Posted: 6/25/2007 10:17:04 PM EST
[#9]
no, but i only have one range trip on it thou at around 500 rounds
Link Posted: 6/25/2007 10:27:20 PM EST
[#10]
Link Posted: 6/25/2007 10:28:56 PM EST
[#11]
Link Posted: 6/25/2007 11:01:39 PM EST
[#12]
damn this is kind of disheartening.  really want a kit, but damn.
Link Posted: 6/25/2007 11:13:01 PM EST
[#13]

Originally Posted By Zhukov:
For me:
1) Stock kit
2) Remington Golden Bullet
3) ~ 1/16"
4) No damage
5) Approximately 500 rounds



This describes mine, except i had more than 500 rounds. and firing on full auto.

never had an OOB with anything other than the remington. with those, its almost expected.
Link Posted: 6/26/2007 2:05:53 AM EST
[#14]
My father in law did, brand new kit, very little lube, federal ( see a theme??) value packs.....

FWIW, He has since polished his guide rails, and learned to run lube, without a single further problem.

My kit has been problem free, but I have barely 1K through it, mix of CCI mini-mags, and Remmy Thunderbolts....and yes, it will run on the cheap ass remmy....my 10/22 doesn't even like that stuff...
Link Posted: 6/26/2007 6:15:54 AM EST
[#15]
No
Link Posted: 6/26/2007 6:43:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: Followthehollow] [#16]
No, 6000 rounds and climbing, I've cleaned it 3 times.

It's never started failing, but always seemed like 2k rounds of 22 was a good time to clean!
Link Posted: 6/26/2007 11:21:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5oulja] [#17]
Yes 6 times only when rapid fired

1) Ciener kit stock (keep her lube up good) & BDM mags

2) Only happen with Federal Value pack and Remington golden bullet bulk pack. (With/out Can). I save these for my Remi 597

No problem with CCI, Federal Auto Match, Remington Subsonic, Aguila Sub Sonic all 40gr and the big boy Aguila 60gr SSS

3) Sometime half way sometime stucked in the chamber

4) No damage

5) as of Saturday June 24th 8525 through the kit.  Cleaned every 2K

Link Posted: 6/26/2007 1:18:37 PM EST
[#18]
Link Posted: 6/27/2007 9:08:26 PM EST
[#19]
I didn't add to the vote but have to add my $.02. No I haven't had an OOB. BUT....I have had what seemed to be. After much time spent trying to find out what happened I think I have it figured out.

The ciener has an unsupported feed ramp. My kit is bone stock but well broken in. It runs federal bulk like a champ but has had a kaboom in about 1 in 50 with winny experts. The cases are a lot thinner in those. I posted about this a while back but can't pull it up now. When looking at the spent brass (who looks at spent 22lr brass for pressure signs with any regularity????) I noticed a slight bulge in the feed ramp area. VERY noticeable with the experts that didn't kaboom, but while slight...still noticeable on all other ammo. The experts are the only ones that have done this(kaboom) on my gun with the kit.

So just food for thought since the pics posted here don't look much different than what I saw with mine.

:disclaimer: Maybe right or wrong (I do know what happened to mine in my head at least) but I have had several KB's but only when running part of a box of the experts. I gave up and shot most of the rest of them in my lever and bolt guns before I lost a finger or eye. It was  the ONLY ammo to do that for me and I have run quite a mix in mine including 'some stuff that was given to me that was 40+ years old. So it doesn't care what it eats including sub sonics.......but it doesn't like the winchester eXperts. Maybe my ramp is cut farther than most? (my kit was bought new from brownells)
Link Posted: 6/27/2007 10:36:01 PM EST
[#20]
NO


1) Stock- (Worked the action 150 times before shooting)
2) Remington GB , Federal VP, Remington Viper
3) ~3,500 Rounds
4) Ciener 30 Mag, & BDM Mags
Link Posted: 6/28/2007 12:20:26 PM EST
[#21]

Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By 5oulja:
5) as of Saturday June 24th 8525K through the kit.  Cleaned every 2K


8.5 MILLION rounds?

Or is there a "K" there that shouldn't be?


My bad.
Link Posted: 6/28/2007 3:21:07 PM EST
[#22]
I have had an OoB with my dedicated Fulton Armory upper, which uses a Ciener kit with no chamber adaptor, as it has a dedicated .22LR chamber. So I guess this would count as "Modified," although not modified by me.

Ammo used was...err...CCI Blazer (brass case, plain lead bullet), I think.

The round was maybe 1/3rd of the way out of the chamber

There was no damage to the kit as far as I know.

Rounds fired = less than 100, this was when I first got it and was having many problems.
Link Posted: 6/29/2007 9:11:25 AM EST
[#23]
Never
Link Posted: 6/29/2007 3:37:45 PM EST
[#24]
I don't want to vote because I don't have a kit yet and I don't want to screw up the tally. Could someone post the results?
Link Posted: 6/30/2007 3:13:19 PM EST
[#25]
1) Was the Ciener kit stock or modified? If modified, how?
Sanded/polished to remove burrs

2) What ammo was used?
Probably bulk pack Remington or Federal from Walmart

3) How far out of the chamber was the round when it went off?
1/4"?

4) Did any damage occur to the kit?
Just my hand, which was holding the magwell. There was lead embedded in it.
http://imagecloset.com/2/7ad55e2fd6e50717d9f4cc9bdab49a33/IMG_0025.jpg

5) Approximate number of rounds fired through the kit
1,000 at the time
Link Posted: 6/30/2007 5:04:21 PM EST
[#26]

Originally Posted By saintz:
1) Was the Ciener kit stock or modified? If modified, how?
Sanded/polished to remove burrs

2) What ammo was used?
Probably bulk pack Remington or Federal from Walmart

3) How far out of the chamber was the round when it went off?
1/4"?

4) Did any damage occur to the kit?
Just my hand, which was holding the magwell. There was lead embedded in it.
imagecloset.com/2/7ad55e2fd6e50717d9f4cc9bdab49a33/IMG_0025.jpg

5) Approximate number of rounds fired through the kit
1,000 at the time

I did a post on this issue when mine occured, I have since tried to refrain from using the magwell hold. Imagine the same occurrence with a 5.56 round and a magwell hold. I fight the urge everytime to grab the magwell, damn retraining. I need a vert grip.
Link Posted: 6/30/2007 10:48:41 PM EST
[#27]
Yep it happened to my wife.

stock conversion kit, winchester powerpoint ammo, about 400 rds thru it. using BDM mags.

My wife shoots left handed and she got a little gas in the face but no other damages to her or the rifle.  She was holding the vert grip

I just looked at the mag, cycled the action and kept on shooting

Could not find the empty brass

Fluff
Link Posted: 7/1/2007 7:37:52 AM EST
[#28]
1) Was the Ciener kit stock or modified? If modified, how?
Unmodified with BDM magazines.

2) What ammo was used?
Federal 38 gr. high-velocity HP's.

3) How far out of the chamber was the round when it went off?
Less than 1/8".

4) Did any damage occur to the kit?
No damage to any component or to the shooter.

5) Approximate number of rounds fired through the kit
A few thousand?
Link Posted: 7/1/2007 7:44:39 AM EST
[#29]
I have not had one in my Ciener kit, yet.  I fully expect that I will though.  I have had one in nearly every other 22LR semi-auto that I own.  It is not really that uncommon in my experience.  A dirty chamber or obstruction that can cause the rim to not seat properly will cause it, the good thing that it is extremely rare for damage to occur and injuries are rare if the firearm is held properly.
Link Posted: 7/1/2007 3:08:28 PM EST
[#30]
After about 60,000 rounds, almost all Remington Goldens.  Modified by KPF first generation (no chamber adaptor, barrel and adaptor were one piece), running mostly full auto.  Lakeside extra power recoil spring, stock hammer spring, KAC match trigger.  Other than that, the kit is stock, no polishing or ball detent mods.

The OOB was similar to other posts.  An odd sound alerted me, the case was still partially chambered (probably 1/8"), part of the case's base was blown out.

Hopefully it will be another 60,000 until the next one but considering the lack of damage to me or the gun, zero, (I ALWAYS wear eye and ear protection), it doesn't seem to be such a big deal oddly enough.
Link Posted: 7/2/2007 5:30:22 PM EST
[#31]
Never happened to me.

Unmodified kit, 10 round mags, never polished. Almost all were Rem Thunderbolts (bought a pallet on sale). Several Bushmaster semi autos as host guns.

I've run the thing for several thousand round without cleaning it. It will eventually have misfires. Then it's carb cleaner time.

Note to self: no mag well hold.
Link Posted: 7/3/2007 12:37:04 PM EST
[#32]
Never happened to me (OOB discharge).  I've shot the crap out of my ciener kit with a kuehl barrel.  I don't know how many rounds because I stopped counting a long time ago.  

The secret to avoiding an oob discharge is to get a higher power recoil spring.  Lakeside guns sells them and they are not that expensive.  The second thing you can do to avoid the problem is to polish the ciener kit's receiver plate and lubricate it properly before shooting.  I use TW-25B grease.

I used to have battery problems before I switched to the lakeside guns recoil spring.  After I switched, it has run 100%

Replace the spring, clean every 2k rounds, and you will never have another problem.
Link Posted: 7/4/2007 10:06:38 PM EST
[#33]
I voted yes---i actually didn't know it was an OOB situation, i thought the extractor ripped the case but once i looked here and saw the photo's it looked the same and it did shoot odd with extra gas at the time.

1) Was the Ciener kit stock or modified?  stock in a kuhel dedicated upper
2) What ammo was used? not sure-either win dynapoints or agulla se
3) How far out of the chamber was the round when it went off? 1/4 of the way
4) Did any damage occur to the kit? no
5) Approximate number of rounds fired through the kit less than 500
Link Posted: 7/5/2007 6:15:35 PM EST
[#34]
1) Was the Ciener kit stock or modified? stock in a kuhel dedicated upper
2) What ammo was used? not sure think the cheap stuff from walmart
3) How far out of the chamber was the round when it went off? 1/4"
4) Did any damage occur to the kit? no
5) Approximate number of rounds fired through the kit a few thousand

My rifle is set up as a practic rifle for CMP service rifle comp.  kuhel barrel, a2 upper, 1/4, 1/4 sights, rra full free float.  I was lucky i was wearing a shooting glove, shooting jacket and safety glasses, so i sufferd no damage.

After inspecting many empty shells i have found a suprising amount with a bulge near the rim.  
Link Posted: 7/8/2007 5:13:08 PM EST
[#35]
As always, wear your ears and eyes and you will be fine if you have an OOB with 22lr.
Link Posted: 7/14/2007 6:24:08 PM EST
[#36]
Took my kit out for it's first run today and had an OOB.

1.  Stock kit, not modified but well lubed, (2) Ciener 30 round mags, shot from a Bushy hbar carb.
2.  CCI Mini Mag 40gr RN, shooting slow fire
3.  ~1/8"
4.  No, I continued to shoot another 150 rounds
5.  the OOB probably occurred on my 40th round or so.

I'm not sure the OOB was a product of the kit (carrier) in my case as much as it was the mag.   I had already run through the first 30 round mag without a hitch.   The second mag was a different story.  In addition to the OOB, I had several FTFs and FTEs through the first 20 rounds.   I took the remaining 10 rounds and switched them back to the first mag, and they fired fine.

At this point, I took the carrier out of the receiver and hit it with some breakfree along the slides and also the spring.  I also gave the second offending mag a little spray.

I then switched over to some Federal AutoMatch (also 40gr. RN) in the 325ct. bulk pack from Wallyworld.   I put a whole box of this through my P22 one day without a FTF or FTE, so I'm feeling pretty good about it's reliability right now.  

I probably fed another 150 or so of the Federal and it ran like a champ out of both mags.   For now, I'm calling this a "break-in" incident.  

Based on the pics shared above, I'm just glad I haven't developed the "mag as a hold point" habit.    Here's a couple pics of the spent casing.   Fortunately in my case, the damage is limited to the shell.




Link Posted: 7/14/2007 6:37:04 PM EST
[#37]
nope
Link Posted: 7/14/2007 7:46:56 PM EST
[#38]
Link Posted: 7/14/2007 8:59:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: AK_Mike] [#39]
After looking over the stats, I'm wondering if OOB's happen more than we realize - we may be catching only the bad ones.  Fortunately little damage seems to occur to either firearm or shooter. (ALWAYS WEAR EYE PROTECTION!!!)
Link Posted: 7/17/2007 1:23:21 PM EST
[#40]
1)  Stock Ciener kit
2)  Federal (the inexpensive blue box bricks, I misrecall the name)
3)  Various depths:  1/4 OOB would ring the base of the case, 1/2 OOB or so blew out the entire case on several occasions.
4)  Around the 500rd mark, the firing pin completely disappeared, had to send it back to the mfg.  No idea if it was OOB related or no (another club member was firing it at the time)
5)  First major OOB (split case, brass fragments out the EP and through the gaps in the magwell) occurred within 50rds of installing the (used) Ciener kit in my AR

Our club had some trouble with the Ciener, but we may have bought a used lemon.  Frequent OOBs, and had doubling issues until the kids fiddled with the maglips and solved the issue.
Link Posted: 8/13/2007 10:18:13 PM EST
[#41]
1) Stock Kit
2) Remington Subsonic and Federal Champion.  Several times with the Rem Subs.  Once or twice with the Federal.
3) A few times it was approximately half way into the chamber.  One time with a Rem Sub, it was so far out of battery that the bullet was stuck between the case and the chamber adapter.  Pulled the kit out and pried the case and bullet out with my pocket knife.
4) No damage.
5) 6-7000K
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 1:46:18 PM EST
[#42]
YES (only one time)

Mine was stock ciener, except for a different chamber adaptor...

Not sure what ammo right off - but it was either CCI mini-mag or Federal Walmart bulk..

Mine was definately caused by failure to keep it lubed up.. A few weeks ago I had it out and  I noticed it wasnt closing completely.. So i stopped and lubed it up.. ran perfectly after that..

brian
Link Posted: 8/19/2007 1:52:32 PM EST
[#43]
Yes several times over 1000s of rounds
Light polish
Ammo Varies, one wolf mt,one pmc zapper,shoot lots of each,possible one rem golden
case was 2/3 or so into chamber
no damage

I shoot the Ceiner because my DPMS would blow apart the extractor and ruin a magazine when it happened 3 times over the course of approx 1500 roiunds
Link Posted: 8/21/2007 12:50:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: MikeS1970] [#44]
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
In any case: WEAR EYE PROTECTION WHEN SHOOTING, AND BE CAREFUL WITH MAGWELL HOLDS!

Big +1 on the magwell hold warning.

I've had OOB with an AR-7 (original Armalite).  Always had chambering problems with it plus the barrel nut tends to loosen as the rifle is fired.  Blew the case head (either Fed hi-vel or Blazer).  

Black marks on the palm (magwell hold).  The mag was a little deformed but still works.
My hand was okay that day but started aching and hurt for almost a week.

A friend who does firearms repair took the rifle and ended up having to recut the chamber - said it was almost as if the chamber was never fully cut.  Funny thing is the rifle ran perfectly with old Rem Golden bullet ammo but choked on just about everything else.

Edit:  Have my first rifle: a Rem Nylon 66 semi - rifle has never failed to function and never OOB even when I neglected to clean it for thousands of rounds.  Got this rifle for 16.5 books of trading stamps back in the mid-1960s when firearms weren't considered "evil".

Edit:  No OOBs.  I have 3 Ceiners (one Kuehl), 2 261s, 2 AF conversions, one DPMS conversion (insert not upper).  No OOB or other major problems.  I run mostly standard vel - my Ceiners have Lakeside springs. Ceiners work with all ammo so far - standard vel, target, hi-vel. I've put about a thousand rounds thru the Kuehl.  261s and AF conversions only fired a few hundred rounds.  DPMS about one hundred rounds so far.
Link Posted: 9/2/2007 10:43:37 AM EST
[#45]
I've got 1200 thru mine with no OOB discharges.

I have been running Federal and a little bit of aguila with no problems.  My kit refuses to work with Remington Golden Pack ammo.
Link Posted: 9/10/2007 4:20:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: MtDew69] [#46]
1) Was the Ciener kit stock or modified? If modified, how?
Modified. dedicated barrel and bored out chamber adapter (Kuehl Precision copy)

2) What ammo was used?
Fed champion target

3) How far out of the chamber was the round when it went off?
It was completly out and 90 degrees to the bore w/ the rim on the ejection port side

4) Did any damage occur to the kit?
no

5) Approximate number of rounds fired through the kit
60 in S/A

I was shooting supressed and this one was "louder"

It was Magwell hold it didnt do anything to my hand (Unlike my MG42 that had a OOB now that hurt...)
Link Posted: 9/12/2007 2:19:54 PM EST
[#47]
Never with 3 different M16/AR15 Ciner unmodified kits.

Twice with 1 Ciener AK47 unmodified kit. About 1/8" OOB and damaged the extractor on the Ciener bolt.

I believe the ammo used was Remington bulk on one occasion and Federal bulk on the other occasion.
Link Posted: 9/24/2007 9:44:26 PM EST
[#48]
Stock kit
CCI Blazer
300 rounds
no damage to kit
1/3 in chamber
Link Posted: 9/29/2007 12:01:00 AM EST
[#49]
I can't believe I sold my Colt kit and bought the Ciener. I guess I was wanting the option of using 30rd mags. Any who... Second trip to the range (50 rds 1st trip) and it happened mid way through a string of rapid fire of the the second mag (45rd approx) I had an OOB discharge. I removed the kit and inspected everything with no damage noted besides a little powder burn on my left hand (holding magwell).

1) Stock kit, (NEW!!!)
2) Remington bulk
3) OOB by about a 1/4"
4) No damage noted.
5) Less than 100 rds
Link Posted: 10/4/2007 9:23:22 PM EST
[#50]
This evening it happened.

1. Unmodified, stock kit.

2. 22LR Bulk 550 Bonus Pak Remington 36gr HP from Wal-Mart.

3. 1/4 inch? out side of chamber.

4. No damage to anything.

5. Rounds through it - 550 22LR Bulk Federal 36gr HP from Wal-Mart
these performed flawlessly.
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