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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 3/29/2006 11:57:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 9:44:59 PM EDT by WindGapAR15]
I had to do a quick sketch of it as i cannot get my crappy camera to take a decent pic of it. It is in a french book about afghanistan and shows a diorama of a soldier carrying one. I cannot decide if it is maybe some sort of airsoft or paintball oir the like? It appears to be a ploymer reciever but it is a bit too intricate to be complately fake and a toy.



ETA picture from book.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:05:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 12:06:59 PM EDT by BLouie]
It's a standard colapsable stock, semi-auto (no auto sear pin) A3 flattop AR-15...a decent picture except the cartridge deflector is too high, the bolt carrier should be centered on the boreline and the upper receiver should not extend below the lower takedown pin.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:07:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 12:09:14 PM EDT by SmallChange]
Kinda like this?


ETA:
or this?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:37:57 PM EDT
i will try and sketch out a different angle in a little while so you guys can see where the flat sides come in. i hate my camera.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:48:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:58:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 1:36:56 PM EDT
Yep, I was thinking AR10, but munyguru may have the winner.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:32:56 PM EDT
it looks alot like that last one there. but still not a winner. its close though. i will sketch it out in abit
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:38:23 PM EDT
Could it be the Bushmaster Carbon?

Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:01:05 PM EDT
nope,...i have a really great ability to recognise weapons and i have never seen this one. if it were just a simple cavarms or bushy i wouldnt waste our time.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 5:39:54 PM EDT
whats the point of the Diamond upper/lower, what makes it great? Just wondering...thanks
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 5:58:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WindGapAR15:
nope,...i have a really great ability to recognise weapons and i have never seen this one. if it were just a simple cavarms or bushy i wouldnt waste our time.



What caught your eye that made you think it was different? The slab side of the lower? Or the rear takedown are of the upper? Or something else?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 6:18:07 PM EDT


thats the best i can do
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:26:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:38:53 AM EDT
dosent look like a 308 to me.....

Since its from a French book I say that its just from some crazy French manufacturer that built the upper and lower up a little stronger than usual so it can stand up to being dropped all the time and shoved in the ground to fly flags....
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:02:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By davidp14:
dosent look like a 308 to me.....

Since its from a French book I say that its just from some crazy French manufacturer that built the upper and lower up a little stronger than usual so it can stand up to being dropped all the time and shoved in the ground to fly flags....



LOL. I agree it isn't an AR10 as I suspected from the original sketch (which you should leave up so newcomers won't think we're crazy for some of the guesses we've made.

I'm stumped too. I've not see one like that. The mag looks like a standard 5.56 mag, though.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:12:50 AM EDT
+1 that's not a .308
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:56:05 AM EDT
The picture shows a charging handle, so unless that Diamond receiver makes one with a CH, that's not it.

Knight's Armament makes their receivers different than the standard AR-15. I know what their SR25 looks like (.308), but I don't have their 5.56 weapon etched in my brain. Could someone say whether or not it's the KAC SR16 (or whatever they call it?)
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:01:00 AM EDT
Really looks like the KAC to me. Can't find any pics though...
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:03:01 AM EDT
The closest looking upper that I could find is the 5.56 version of the Cobb MCR which is about half way down this page www.cobb50.com/mcr.htm
From the picture that is provided by the poster we can see the very angular and slab sided surface of the upper and a rather small brass deflector. The back of the lower also seems to be matched to the upper and has simillar proportions to the Cobb accept that instead of being built around what looks in the Cobb case to be an over all size of an ar10 reciever this one is sized like an ar15. I am not saying that this is the Cobb MCS as it is the wrong size, shape, and has a dust cover but some of styleing is the same so I thought I would point it out.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:05:42 AM EDT
Really looks like a KAC carbine to me, just cant tell if its .308 or 5.56. Maybe the curved mag is throwing it off. Maybe it s a curved .308 mag.

Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:10:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 8:28:06 AM EDT by GMAN51]
good call on the SR25k but I am guessing it is 5.56 because of the proportions, the mag pull thing at the bottom, and the redi-mag on the gun.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:22:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GMAN51:
good call on the SR25k but I am guessing it is 5.56 because of the proportions the mag pull thing at the bottom and the redi-mag on the gun.



I missed the Redi-mag...good eyes. I agree, the rear receiver profile looks 100% KAC, but the lower is definitely not a 7.62x51. The KAC looking profile at the rear where the upper and lower meet does not look like it will accept a standard upper receiver.

This is very intriguing....it will be interesting to see if anyone knows more about this. Hopefully Coldblue can chime in as to whether it is a KAC item or not.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:29:04 AM EDT
Looks like Dace is the winner. Take a look at the way the upper fits the lower at the takedown pin. That's a match!
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:32:39 AM EDT
It looks like the charging handel is not all the way forward in the gun but shouldn't that not be possible unless somehow he has his bolt head precariously out of battery? If that is the case it might make this an airsoft.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:51:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GMAN51:
It looks like the charging handel is not all the way forward in the gun but shouldn't that not be possible unless somehow he has his bolt head precariously out of battery? If that is the case it might make this an airsoft.



Those were some mighty big jumps you made there to come to that conclusion.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:54:31 AM EDT
5.56 mags have 3 ribs, 7.62 mags have 4. Have not seen any curved .308 mags for SR's.

Looks like an SR25 carbine, but in 5.56. The KAC SR16 looks like a standard M16, not an SR body. Maybe either an export only piece or an early SR16 using the SR25 "look".

I'll see what I can find.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:59:29 AM EDT
My thoughts were that i recall seeing a ar type paintball gun some time ago that looked like this. Anyway facts are: definitely a 30 rounds ar mag in 5.56, definitely in 5.56 proprotions. This thign is not a 7.62 in any way. Also it is a normal ar from the receiver forward. KAC foreend and regular M4 style barrel. Nothng at all is weird about it other then the receiver.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:00:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By GMAN51:
It looks like the charging handel is not all the way forward in the gun but shouldn't that not be possible unless somehow he has his bolt head precariously out of battery? If that is the case it might make this an airsoft.



Those were some mighty big jumps you made there to come to that conclusion.



Well let me know if I am wrong about the whole charging handel thing, that is why I asked it in the form of a question. And assuming that a soldier would have a working gun would that not purhaps point to this reciever with bizzare features not being a real gun at all? I don't see the huge logical leap to get there but like I said I want to be told if I am incorrect about what I have said.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:00:13 AM EDT
Isn't there a guy on this board who work for KAC?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:44:48 AM EDT
I'd say it's an SR25 with a new mag design.
Pat
0-1-25
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:54:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hk33k2:
I'd say it's an SR25 with a new mag design.
Pat
0-1-25



.308s almost always use a straight mag.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:04:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:
Isn't there a guy on this board who work for KAC?



Coldblue= HMFIC for the .mil side of the house (which is most of the house).



Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:15:47 AM EDT
What is that on the front of the magwell?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 11:04:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LOW2000:
What is that on the front of the magwell?



looks like a redi-mag
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 11:14:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 11:21:20 AM EDT by JoshNC]

Originally Posted By hk33k2:
I'd say it's an SR25 with a new mag design.
Pat
0-1-25



It does not appear to be an SR15 in 308. The mag is almost certainly of 5.56mm proportions. Also the rail handguard is a non-free float variety, which is not seen on the SR25s. The end user could have switched out the FF RAS for a standard RAS, but that begs the question...why?

The back end of the lower receiver appears to be SR25 in length, ie the distance from the rear takedown pin to the back of the receiver seems longer than the standard AR15/M16. Could this be a modular lower receiver?

Edited to add, could it be the Cobb modular lower:



Maybe with some prototype upper receiver that doesn't use a free float handguard?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 11:17:51 AM EDT
Diorama? Like in a little box? Artistic license is my guess. They forgot the gas tube too.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 11:25:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JoshNC:

Originally Posted By hk33k2:
I'd say it's an SR25 with a new mag design.
Pat
0-1-25



It does not appear to be an SR15 in 308. The mag is almost certainly of 5.56mm proportions. Also the rail handguard is a non-free float variety, which is not seen on the SR25s. The end user could have switched out the FF RAS for a standard RAS, but that begs the question...why?

The back end of the lower receiver appears to be SR25 in length, ie the distance from the rear takedown pin to the back of the receiver seems longer than the standard AR15/M16. Could this be a modular lower receiver?

Edited to add, could it be the Cobb modular lower:

i2.tinypic.com/smsryw.jpg

Maybe with some prototype upper receiver that doesn't use a free float handguard?

A Redi Mag will not fit that.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 11:41:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 11:44:36 AM EDT by want2race]
I love this thread.

CH does look like it's further back than it should be.

(edited: just saw mag pull on 30 rd mag)

I don't see a gas tube either.

I also don't see a receiver end plate, the one that holds in the take down pin detent spring. Looks like something back there, but not a plate.

I haven't been able to find anything that resembles this.


Are there any captions for the pic that we might be able to translate?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 11:56:42 AM EDT
Wow. No points for ANYONE! You've all been had, surprisingly so.

I have this book, "Special Forces In Afghanistan" by Eric Micheletti. Pretty cool book, but while it contains a lot of great and REAL file photos, the posed models dressed in "authentic" gear all carry replica weapons. The weapon in question is not real at all, it's airsoft, though i don't know the specific brand.

If you look closely at all the models and the weapons they carry, none of them look "right." A flash hider or part you've never seen, a proportion that isn't correct and all the weapons have the same plastic sheen throughout, none of it is metal. The rear takedown pin area on the M16 in the photo you posted is a dead giveaway. Look at the shell defector. What the hell is that little thing going to deflect?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:01:37 PM EDT
You beat me to it. I compared this pic and can see too many variables.
The take down pin area is different, the space just above the pivot pin is larger on the KAC K model. The lack of gas tube is what really gives it away. Note that on the KAC SR25 K, the shell deflector is up high just like the "Fake" model.



Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:07:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FlyingFive0:

Originally Posted By JoshNC:

Originally Posted By hk33k2:
I'd say it's an SR25 with a new mag design.
Pat
0-1-25



It does not appear to be an SR15 in 308. The mag is almost certainly of 5.56mm proportions. Also the rail handguard is a non-free float variety, which is not seen on the SR25s. The end user could have switched out the FF RAS for a standard RAS, but that begs the question...why?

The back end of the lower receiver appears to be SR25 in length, ie the distance from the rear takedown pin to the back of the receiver seems longer than the standard AR15/M16. Could this be a modular lower receiver?

Edited to add, could it be the Cobb modular lower:

i2.tinypic.com/smsryw.jpg

Maybe with some prototype upper receiver that doesn't use a free float handguard?

A Redi Mag will not fit that.



You are correct. I was thinking that it may be a prototype lower with a different magwell. Or maybe it isn't a modular lower at all. The rear receiver profile looks like the Cobb, which looks like the SR25 and the AR10.

Coldblue? Is this some double secret KAC item?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:15:43 PM EDT
I vote posed pic with an airsoft gun.


I'm with everyone else in that if the gun were real, it is definitely a 5.56x45mm gun, the RediMag cements that.


But I'm guessing it's some Airsoft POS with a fake redimag on it.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:31:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By want2race:
You beat me to it. I compared this pic and can see too many variables.
The take down pin area is different, the space just above the pivot pin is larger on the KAC K model. The lack of gas tube is what really gives it away. Note that on the KAC SR25 K, the shell deflector is up high just like the "Fake" model.



But the AR in the photo is clearly supposed to be an M16/ M4 and there's not an M-16 upper receiver made anywhere by anyone that has such a thin, small case deflector. Yeah, many things wrong with the photo and many others in the book. VERY surprised people are taking this so seriously...

Link Posted: 3/30/2006 1:05:15 PM EDT
I guess I was taken in by the poor quality of the "photo of a photo in a book." Sigh. I still think it looks a LOT like the picture Dace posted of the KAC carbine. Maybe that's what the Airsoft folks were trying for.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 1:27:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:
Really looks like a KAC carbine to me, just cant tell if its .308 or 5.56. Maybe the curved mag is throwing it off. Maybe it s a curved .308 mag.

www.quarterbore.com/images/sr25K_39_f.jpg



that's awesome, do they make a lot of those? can you buy a polymer lower from them?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 1:46:05 PM EDT
ar10
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 1:57:19 PM EDT
airsoft...........and just because a pic is in a book does not make it authentic. I've seen many a "SOF" book with pics taken from the web, out of context, you name it!

The CCO looks fake and why no riser? Maybe it's my puter though.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 3:52:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 3:55:32 PM EDT by Dace]
to me..

Its airsoft, sorry I doubted anyone, I missed the whole "diorama" part and it didnt occur to me that it was posed.






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